The Coronavirus Discussion Thread.

And you may feel very different if on of the main reasons your wife of 27 years is still here is the vaccine and the protection it gives someone who is vulnerable. Twice.

Really, how can you be sure? Considering for almost everyone except the elderly it was a very mild illness.

You know the Actual Risk Reduction provided by the Pfizer vaccine was less than 1%? And that was against mild to moderate symptoms, not hospitalisation or death. From their own clinical trial data. But you knew this, right?

From mid 2022 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-11374-7
Haven’t found a more recent one, but i admit i really haven’t looked beyond a quick Google

I asked you to comment on the actual data he presented. All official stuff. Whether he is or is not reputable personally, has no bearing on the official data.

Hard to separate the question from questioner when he is has been described as a liar by a judge and, as above, makes ridiculous assertions comparing vaccination to the Holocaust. Suggests to me his critical faculties are compromised, or driven by a cynical desire to get booked on GB News.

It’s like Boris giving us a lecture on the sanctity of marriage.

Anyhow, here’s reasonable evidence-based write-up from the British Heart Foundation on what we know about vaccination and myocarditis risk in young males. Basically, very small increase in risk from vaccination, balanced against a much higher risk of myocarditis from the actual infection (even putting aside all the other problems that Covid can cause, even in young men).

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/coronavirus-vaccine-your-questions-answered/myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-should-you-be-worried

And now we wait to see if you’re that same repeat poster who pops up occasionally to proffer some antivax talking points, normally turns abusive within a day or two, then gets banned.

EDIT: Oh, I see from the BJ thread that process has already started. Bonne chance, mystery poster!

I think we are in meme territory.

From mid 2022 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-11374-7
Haven’t found a more recent one, but i admit i really haven’t looked beyond a quick Google.

Would prefer something based on real world data, rather than computer modelling which as we all know, can be highly variable based on the input criteria and weightings.

I’m tempted to say it’s been done to death(!) in previous pages or google it and do your own research. But, in the spirit of open debate, here’s a paper from a reputable journal outlining the actual risks, I haven’t time to read and summarise it all but they are talking about about 1:50,000 incidence of excess adverse effects or 0.002% approx and yes, the risk is higher in younger people. (NB, most of these are treatable effects, unlike dying of Covid. I am not aware of very many excess deaths as a result of conditions caused by the vaccine)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31401-5

Unvaccinated, the death rates among those with diagnosed covid were iirc in the % range (maybe 2%) – skewed to older and vulnerable. There may have been many more who had virus but were undiagnosed (asymptomatic or just not tested) so adjust that accordingly, say 0.2% – that’s still 100x beneficial across the population

And that’s all actually shit comparisons because we’re comparing deaths with adverse vaccine effects, etc. Maybe we should compare adverse vaccine effects vs adverse covid effects, many had / have severe illnesses like long covid but which didn’t kill them; to really compare ‘like with like’ if you are counting harm to be treatable myo or pericarditis then is long covid or hospitalisation but recovery a better comparator? Which would go from (shit comparison alert) 100x beneficial to 1000x or 10,000x, IDK.

What i know is that directionally to me, as a population at large, that’s why (to quote my earlier post “**I personally think** that the benefits to harms ratio is still far in favour of the vaccine”

Is that the same British Heart Foundation that is heavily funded by the Gates Foundation and also from the vaccine manufacturers?

You might feel very differently about that if you yourself had been vaccine injured but were now being ignored by the government and the media.

I have a very good riding buddy whose wife was very badly affected by a reaction to a Covid vaccination. She was in fact extremely ill with a very long hospital stay and lasting complications which I don’t know if she will ever entirely recover from.

Her situation does not make it comparable to the Holocaust. She was given the vaccine as it was considered that it could potentially save her life. The Holocaust was a deliberate act of mass murder on an industrial scale.

The risks of associated with the vaccine, any vaccine, have not been ignored by the government and the media.

It is a well publicised fact that there are risks associated with all vaccines. My riding buddy, who also had the vaccine, fully understands that and accepts that his wife was extremely unlucky.

What i know is that directionally to me, as a population at large, that’s why (to quote my earlier post “**I personally think** that the benefits to harms ratio is still far in favour of the vaccine”

Then what is causing all the excess deaths we are currently seeing across the West?

Another conspiracy video here for you. You can choose to ignore it because of the presenter, in which case we know that there must be something to hide, or you can rebuff what has been assumed with facts, data and reason. Your choice I guess.

Vaccine possible link with excess deaths

roger melrose
Free Member
Is that the same British Heart Foundation that is heavily funded by the Gates Foundation and also from the vaccine manufacturers?

Bingo!

Guys – its pointless trying to debate conspirator theories and nonsense from someone with no expertise by using facts and expertise.  You won’t change his mind

Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

something I should have written on my keyboard 🙂

Was waiting for a reference to gates or pharma companies.
Congrats you will the dickhead award of the day. Debate the evidence by all means, but once conspiracy theories and shite like that come out, you lose!

Then what is causing all the excess deaths we are currently seeing across the West?

Covid, you **** quarter-wit.

Well, that and the increasing prevalence of 5G.

No one has ended their post with FACT yet – so ‘yer all talking bollocks.

Don’t forget to end with FACT or it’s not official! Thems the rules! 🙂

Her situation does not make it comparable to the Holocaust.

One misplaced and unwise comment should not be used to dismiss the actual scientific data he is trying to get across.

The risks of associated with the vaccine, any vaccine, have not been ignored by the government and the media.

Yes they have in relation to these vaccines, totally and almost entirely. This was the whole point of the parliamentary speech I linked to. Same with the idiot above posting stupid memes instead of engaging in reasoned debate.

Bingo – “DR” John campbell who actually is a long retired nurse with an out of date PHD and who has monetarised conspiracy theories and is totally discredited

I tried to watch one of his vids about the covid vaccine.  He made basic errors in the first few sentences because his knowledge was 30 years out of date

Covid, you **** quarter-wit.

You sound rather angry. Why?

Oh and you might want to check your claim, as most excess deaths we have been seeing over the last 9 months are not Covid related.

Are we at the ‘Posting John Campbell Links’ stage of the process already? I don’t know if it’s my age, but recently the days seem to just fly by.

The vaccine injury risks have not been ignored or hidden, they have just been accepted by the regulators as acceptable against the risk of not having the vaccine.

Can i ask if you get cancer would you take the chemo treatment?

Bingo – “DR” John campbell who actually is a long retired nurse with an out of date PHD and who has monetarised conspiracy theories and is totally discredited

I tried to watch one of his vids about the covid vaccine. He made basic errors in the first few sentences because his knowledge was 30 years out of date

Ignoring the man himself, which bit of the data he presents in the video I linked to above do you disagree with TJ, and why?

Same with the idiot above posting stupid memes instead of engaging in reasoned debate.

Thanks!👍

You call what you are posting, “debate”?
Don’t know this forum well do you?

Is that the same British Heart Foundation that is heavily funded by the Gates Foundation and also from the vaccine manufacturers?

Is it? Could you point that funding out in their annual report then?

https://www.bhf.org.uk/-/media/files/what-we-do/bhf-annual-report-2022.pdf?rev=cc73d5ab18314f8aa4d14440d4c320e6&hash=EE2F84E00B356C98419E65150702D68A

The potential non covid excess deaths (whatever proportion they are) are more likely to be a result of public health impacts than any supposed vaccine issues. All actions will have an impact, was lockdown the right call? Probably but it will have an impact, the likelihood is that the tail of impact is smaller than if we allowed huge numbers to die outside of hospitals by allowing the virus to run riot as you and your fellow acolytes seem to feel should have happened

The vaccine injury risks have not been ignored or hidden, they have just been accepted by the regulators as acceptable against the risk of not having the vaccine.

That’s interesting considering it is known know that a serious adverse event requiring hospitalisation occurs from the vaccine in at least 1 in 800 doses (that’s doses, not people).

What was your risk of hospitalisation from Covid again if you were say, age 30 ish?

Can i ask if you get cancer would you take the chemo treatment?

Very different disease and a fairly proven long established treatment with know side effects.

I’ve seen that and the Norway paper before – John Campbell himself says that the paper says there is a correlation. That’s not the same as a causation.

Maybe some of the excess deaths ARE due to covid responses; I have posted several times on the impact of lockdown on mental health for example. There were impacts on incomes, leading to poverty, and poverty correlates to lower life expectancy. Maybe the fact that endemic diseases with potential to kill (flu for example) didn’t circulate and consequently we got higher EM after lockdown.

My view is not a wide scientific review, to say again it’s my opinion based on what I have understood from what I have read (pros and cons) and many discussions with people truly expert in the field through to laypeople and sceptics. From which I have a belief, which I summarise as:

Lockdown was necessary at the time but was overdone and has longer term implications we have potentially still to see the full extent of

Vaccines massively reduced the effect of covid overall, and the program to vaccinate all for the good of those that needed it most was the right call

There are some adverse effects from vaccines but population benefits outweigh the risks. You might think of it as taking one for the team but that is how society works, IMHO

One misplaced and unwise comment should not be used to dismiss the actual scientific data he is trying to get across

Unless he’s made a few others, and told some serious porkies. In which case, he can jog on in terms of being a reliable source of truth. And in a remarkable turn of events, he has indeed got a prior history of just that.

the likelihood is that the tail of impact is smaller than if we allowed huge numbers to die outside of hospitals by allowing the virus to run riot as you and your fellow acolytes seem to feel should have happened

Sweden would disagree with you.

So Roger – on this thread we have real experts like TiRed and folk like me with a bit of education in healthcare and epidemiology ( retired nurse some basic training in epidemiology and risk assessment in healthcare) I have at lest as much expertise as “Dr” John Campbell and certainly enough to spot basic errors that he makes

Now whats your qualification and education that means you are able to refute folk with real knowledge and expertise some of whom ( not me) are accepted experts?

You need a little knowledge to be able to critically analyse research.  so come on – whats your expertise in healthcare, epidemiology and medical research?  You must have some surely?

Sweden would disagree with you.

And other comparable Nordic countries think Sweden is an idiot.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1403494820980264

That’s interesting considering it is known know that a serious adverse event requiring hospitalisation occurs from the vaccine in at least 1 in 800 doses (that’s doses, not people).

Reference please

And other comparable Nordic countries think Sweden is an idiot.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1403494820980264

Excess death levels for all causes over the last 3 years would mostly disagree with you.

That’s interesting considering it is known know that a serious adverse event requiring hospitalisation occurs from the vaccine in at least 1 in 800 doses (that’s doses, not people).

Can you link to the direct data for that? That’s the actual data, not someone’s interpretation of it.

Lockdown and thus its adverse effects ( which are real – I know of one death directly attributable to it) went on far longer than it could have been simply because the measures we introduced were too late.  so instead of a short sharp lockdown we had a long drawn out one – because it was introduced weeks too late

Who was at fault for that? Johnson and his cronies.  Experts were screaming for borders to be closed and transmission precautions put in place for weeks before they were

That’s interesting considering it is known know that a serious adverse event requiring hospitalisation occurs from the vaccine in at least 1 in 800 doses (that’s doses, not people).

Can you cite that data because it is so far away from the Nature paper I linked, I’d like to read it.

1 in 800 doses required hospitalisation. Do I understand right, because I like most people on the vax program have now had 4 doses. If that’s the case 1 in 200 of us needs/ed hospitalisation. 0.5%

There’s 70M people in the UK, say 80% have been vaccinated, = 56M. 0.5% of that is 2.8M.

I think I’d have read if 2.8M people in the UK needed hospitalisation because of vaccination?

Sweden would disagree with you.

Full house! Woop!

Vaccines massively reduced the effect of covid overall, and the program to vaccinate all for the good of those that needed it most was the right call.

No mention in naturally acquired immunity helping with this at all?

There are some adverse effects from vaccines but population benefits outweigh the risks. You might think of it as taking one for the team but that is how society works, IMHO

How does this data stack up for younger people considering that the Actual Risk Reduction from the vaccines is less than 1%, and it is now known that a serious adverse event requiring hospitalisation occurs from the vaccine in at least 1 in 800 doses (that’s doses, not people).

What was your risk of hospitalisation from Covid again if you were say, age 30 ish?

Please give a reference and evidence for your 1 in 800 claim, otherwise f off

Not engaging again until you cite your data, rather than just repeat the claim.

Well this has brought new life to a dying thread.

I had covid for the second time exactly three weeks ago, like the first time it was remarkably mild.

What surprised me most was that it peaked the first day, the second day was significantly better, as was the third day. By the fourth day there were no longer any symptoms or high temperature.

It puzzled me that it should have peaked the first day, with a cold I would expect it to build up slowly over perhaps several days before slowly improving.

The only reason I think of that I was significantly better on the second day of Covid was because of a very quick immune response. Since Covid is relatively new to my immune system I suspect that this rapid immune response was greatly helped by being fully vaccinated.

Can you cite that data because it is so far away from the Nature paper I linked, I’d like to read it.

1 in 800 doses required hospitalisation. Do I understand right, because I like most people on the vax program have now had 4 doses. If that’s the case 1 in 200 of us needs/ed hospitalisation. 0.5%

There’s 70M people in the UK, say 80% have been vaccinated, = 56M. 0.5% of that is 2.8M.

I think I’d have read if 2.8M people in the UK needed hospitalisation because of vaccination?

Funnily enough, it’s only a vaccine harm if you know to actually look for this. Otherwise it’s a coincidence right? My friend had nerve damage from her vaccine. Her doctor still won’t acknowledge what caused her ongoing nerve problems.

The German life insurance industry has reported a massive uptick in claims from the vaccinated. Germany’s health minister has recently changed his opinion on vaccine injuries:

Karl Lauterbach