So are you isolating for 10 days then?

Nope

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19

Average age of people to have died with coronavirus. This isn’t any “Fool” as it has been put, this is ONS data.

The vast majority were already really old and had pre-existing conditions. I work with a guy who’s wife works in a nursing home. They were being told that patients were dying from coronavirus and this was what was being put on their death certificate yet the individual in question had clearly and obviously been hammered and was on their way out due to something else. This happened numerous times, not just once or twice. Manipulation of figures. You can argue about individual circumstances and call me whatever you want. As a whole, the situation was greatly over-exagerrated and figures were manipulated. End of.

Average age of people to have died with coronavirus.

Elderly more prone to dying shocker.

The vast majority were already really old and had pre-existing conditions. I work with a guy who’s wife works in a nursing home.

Well there we go you know someone who knows someone who says something. That’s damning evidence then.

But old people die every year, and throughout the pandemic 150,000 MORE people than would otherwise be expected to died in the U.K.

Hospitals have been overrun. Doctors and nurses (fit & healthy) have died from it.

The vast majority were already really old and had pre-existing conditions. I work with a guy who’s wife works in a nursing home.

Almost all “old” people have pre existing conditions

Hold the front page… it’s mostly the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions at risk from dying when they catch Coronavirus… why has no one pointed this out before?!? Still, this has prompted me to ring my mum this afternoon… I won’t tell her that she’s a disposable human, but I will consider that I’m lucky to be able to ring her.

Whilst that FOI data is interesting, the detail is not in the mean. Are you familiar with Anscombe’s quartet – I’d guess not. Two sets of data can have the same mean (and same variance), but the distributions might look very different. COVID19 is a disease that exacerbates the morbidity and mortality of other diseases. If you have diabetes or are obese, and you catch COVID19, then your life expectancy will be reduced. And if you die, you will be recorded as COVID19 pneumonia with a new ICD class 100. Previously if dying from pneumonia, other codes would have been recorded (99 is influenza, for example).

The distribution (rather than the mean and median) of deaths is not reported in that FOI. But the fact is, in April 2020, twice as many people were dying per week as would historically die. That was in every age group apart from children, and I posted the data here at the time. You can’t ignore those kinds of numbers and the Government did not. Given the time from first emergence, it was not an epidemic of cancer, strokes or heart attacks either. Now we are heading to endemicity, with vaccines and treatments, do not be surprised that the means and medians are coming back together and other factors such as under diagnosed cancers, may come to play. You have to adjust for confounding factors, which that simple table does not do.

Things are always more complex that the headline and such simple statements normally obfuscate.

TiRed’s just posted exactly what i was going to post. You can have exactly the same average but 2x, 3x or 4x the population. The fact that the average person dying of / with Covid is 81 years old or whatever, tells you nothing in isolation.

[edit – he said it way better, as always]

A great many deaths will occur because of the control measures put in to place to stem this pandemic

Of or with?

if you Google the average age of people who died as a whole during the pandemic, whilst still very tragic, they were in their 80’s.

If you reach 80 years of age you are likely to reach 90. Data shows the average years of life remaining for Covid related deaths was 10 years – 10 years of working, spending in the economy, paying taxes. Even people in care homes do the last two. 175,000 deaths so that’s 1,750,000 economically active years lost.

A great many deaths will occur because of the control measures put in to place to stem this pandemic

Of course. But I’m waiting for someone to quantify it for me so I can compare it to the 175,000 people with Covid on their death certificate.

Lots of people trying to get their two cents in I see. Some with helpful information, others just trying to be sarcastic.

The point I was trying to make was that the media have, for the large part, not mentioned hee haw about the vast majority of people who having died from Covid having had underlying conditions. It’s been pushed that everyone is at risk. That it’s a Covid death whereas Covid may have pushed that person over the edge, they were 90-95% of the way there on a lot of counts already.

As for my so-called damning evidence…..does this mean I am lying? Are you calling the gentleman that I work with or his wife liars? Why do you not believe this to be true? You may not know him but I do and he is a very trustworthy source.

And why wouldn’t I have heard of Anscombes Quartet? Do you believe yourself to be superior?

If you reach 80 you’re likely to reach 90??? I think the average age of people that die in Scotland is 84 so that’s absolute tosh.

Does anyone know why they’re trying to push the vaccine for kids to get it? Have a listen to RFK Jr and see what he says.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLRkhHhs/

Of or with?

: Applause:

Did anyone see the Mark Sharman interview before it was pulled from the web where he said that Mainstream Media is refusing to print or show vaccine horror stories because they wish to write their own narrative to this crisis?

I did. Quite scary.

If you reach 80 you’re likely to reach 90???

Pretty much (that do your own research thang is great innit);

“In 2020, life expectancy at age 80 years for United Kingdom was 9.09 years. Life expectancy at age 80 years of United Kingdom increased from 6.52 years in 1975 to 9.09 years in 2020 growing at an average annual rate of 3.78%.”

https://knoema.com/atlas/United-Kingdom/topics/Demographics/Age/Life-expectancy-at-age-80-years

Almost all “old” people have pre existing conditions

What do you call “old”? I’m 66, which in covid terms means I’m nominally vulnerable. I don’t have any pre-existng conditions I’m aware of, nor did my friend of the same age who caught it in the first wave and died. I agree it would be useful to know whether >65 is a vulnerability in itself or whether it implies other conditions, but over-simplifying doesn’t help.

If you reach 80 you’re likely to reach 90??? I think the average age of people that die in Scotland is 84 so that’s absolute tosh.

That’s the fallacy with averages. It only needs 2 people to illustrate the flaw in your criticism – one dies when they’re 80, and the other survives until they’re 90, as per the hypothesis. The average is 85.

In that FOI data, the median is significantly lower than the mean. That means there must be quite a long tail on the lower side of the distribution, ie, younger people dying but in smaller numbers.

not mentioned hee haw about the vast majority of people who having died from Covid having had underlying conditions

Yes they have. And discussed many times over the years in this thread. Have a look. You’ll also find discussion of your other points happening as well, over and over again.

Mainstream Media is refusing to print or show vaccine horror stories

That’s not true either. Deaths connected with vaccinations (rare and dreadful that they are) were covered on all the media. As were any indications of serious side effects. There is no cover up. There is no conspiracy. If you seek out people who say otherwise, then of course you will find them.

Did anyone see the Mark Sharman interview before it was pulled from the web where he said that Mainstream Media is refusing to print or show vaccine horror stories because they wish to write their own narrative to this crisis?

I did. Quite scary.

MSM has been paid by the Government to promote a narrative. They’re all in lockstep.

MSM all around the world? Paid by all the governments of the world? To what ends?

MSM has been paid by the Government to promote a narrative. They’re all in lockstep

To achieve what, exactly? Genuinely interested in where the benefit is with that

Which media are you suggesting are not talking about pre existing conditions when reporting the numbers …..

The two main sources I use both state it every time numbers are mentioned.

MSM all around the world? Paid by all the governments of the world? To what ends?

Its a new fangled never done before thing called “public health information campaigns”

MSM has been paid by the Government to promote a narrative. They’re all in lockstep.

This’ll be good……….

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLRkhHhs/

What’s that then, malware?

And why wouldn’t I have heard of Anscombes Quartet? Do you believe yourself to be superior?

Not at all, but you made a point about two means and two medians being the same now without recourse to the relevant distributions. That suggests a statistical naïveté. What does the left hand tail of the distribution look like? What is the proportion of 50-65’s? One of my friends was in that group. Sadly he won’t make it to the next.

Life expectancy in that age group fell due to covid. You may not have any, but comorbidities (and being overweight is one), are surprisingly common.

This’ll be good……….

Nooooooooooo… I don’t think I can take more crazy.

Does anyone know who Dr Robert Malone is? Before everyone else jumps in here try having a look at some of his videos and interviews. He invented RNA technology. Have a look at what he says it will do to your kids and then think why it’s being pushed on to our kids?

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLRkUAef/

Also have a look at some of Dr Mike Yeadon’s videos/interviews.

These are qualified individuals who reached the absolute pinnacle of their field. Watch them because if you are pro vaccine and pro -covid you have to be willing to look at both sides of the discussion, especially when credible distinguished people like these are speaking up. In order to be an informed individual, which some of you certainly seem as if you want to be, then you have to be informed. Don’t just accept what’s on the BBC, ITV and Sky News as gospel. There are mass protests across the world. Isn’t it worth checking? I’ve watched, for two years, both sides of the story. My take is there’s bullshit coming thick and fast from both sides but there’s also truth in there worth investigating. Mike Yeadon, Robert Malone and Mark Sharman are worth paying more attention to.

If you’re government can lie to you about some things, what else can they lie to you about.

So the regulatory agencies around the world are all working to cover up a large number of sae events?
I seriously doubt that as it would undermine the trust in the whole healthcare system.
Plus there would be an awful lot of people being silenced within industry as there are whole groups within companies dedicated to patient safety and then further groups dedicated to checking that those groups are working within the rules.
But then if you don’t trust the reporting systems then i would suggest you ensure you grow your own food and never ever take a medicine as clearly the regulatory agencies can’t be trusted.

Plus Robert Malone was not the ‘inventor’ of mRNA technology, yes he was one of the early researchers involved in the work, but the whole thing behind it being functional as a vaccine is the packaging, and as for the claim that it is dangerous because it induces the body to make spike protein….. well yes that is exactly the way vaccines work, either mRNA or traditional

Dr Robert Malone is

Yes – a loon who makes easily disproved statements.  comprehensively debunked earlier in this thread

If its a huge conspiracy what is the aim of it?

Yeadon allegedly claimed the death toll would be unlikely to reach 40,000 and no second wave

Would you like to do the rest of us a favour? – start your own thread for weird pseudo science and conspiracy theories.  this one has been a  very useful source of information from those who actually have expertise

To be fair TJ, this thread started as exactly that! It was renamed once it was clear that an informative thread was needed.

Haggis1978, nothing you have listed has been “ignored”, it’s all been covered in this thread. Search for those names using the forum search and have a read.

As for my so-called damning evidence…..does this mean I am lying?

Because it’s a pure anecdote it has no effect on figures let alone hold any credibility.

Does anyone know who Dr Robert Malone is? Before everyone else jumps in here try having a look at some of his videos and interviews. He invented RNA technology

He didn’t. He claim he did but it’s debunked by the many of 100s of people and decades of research before he was even employed and after he left. He’s also had to have an injunction put on him by a healthcare provider her claimed to work for, despite asking them to stop.

Mike Yeadon, Robert Malone and Mark Sharman are worth paying more attention to.

They absolute not worth paying attention they’ve spread very dangerous misinformation, it’ll be interesting how many deaths this has lead to.

How many times are we told that MSM is somehow suppressing the real information in some vast, global cover-up and the truth lies within the realms of a few bods sitting in their kitchen posting on YouTube and tiktok?

It’s so relentlessly boring.

Assuming that there is, indeed, some massive worldwide conspiracy by governments, health agencies, scientists and the media,… what is its aim?

This ‘one foot in the grave’ stuff always reminds me of the Bomb Dogs on The Day Today –

– ‘a dog and three people dead from guns. Being old, they would have died soon anyway, but the dog… was shot to ribbons in its prime.’

CG – everyone’s entitled to an opinion but with a medically identified and acknowledged pandemic virus your assertion needs some supporting evidence.
We can all throw out assertions/accusations/statements; sometimes the subject matter is (relatively) insignificant.
Covid is not insignificant so…facts and evidence please.

haggis1978
Full Member

The point I was trying to make was that the media have, for the large part, not mentioned hee haw about the vast majority of people who having died from Covid having had underlying conditions.

This is absolutely not true. I say this as someone who has an underlying condition and so was pretty aware of the fact that my death would count for less because of it and would be thrown away as “oh he had an underlying condition” even though I’m fitter and healthier than probably 95% of 40-somethings

Robert Malone

Anyone propagating ivermectin does not understand clinical pharmacology. A micro molar (ie impotent) drug that can’t be doses anywhere near high enough in humans. Paxlovid is about 300x more potent. Which is why it works. Molnupiravir is about 30x more potent. Which is why it works less well.

And don’t get me started on Dr Mike “no second wave due to mass immunity” Yeadon. Someone who’s drug development decisions directly led to people I know losing their jobs. If you’re going to be wrong, go big and switch off.

Appeals to authority are not proper arguments. So don’t quote me, look at the sources I comment on. I try to make science as accessible as possible. And the science here is utterly amazing.

Diabetes is the most prevalent precondition in uk covid deaths I think?

Yeah, **** those guys.

Are we really having this conversation again? Give me strength