@kimbers – I thought that steroids reduced the efficacy of the immune system?

I thought that steroids reduced the efficacy of the immune system?

yes, in the case of the severe patients its the immune system overreacting to the virus that is killing them

@kimbers – I thought that steroids reduced the efficacy of the immune system?

Good point – at least 1 trial looking at steroids too. (initial stuff from China suggested that steroids might be a bad idea but it may be all in the timing)

TiRed: thanks, that does actually sound reasonable. I’m surprised that you have found this to be ‘Global’ , as the social distancing has been enforced to different extents throughout the World. Do you mean different countries will arrive at this point roughly around July?
When we get to this point, what percentage of the population will be infective? As, as far as I can see, by that stage the disease will be essentially everywhere (at least within the UK) and a relaxation in ‘lockdown’ will set things off again.

The West is trying to learn from China, they’re not sharing their knowledge:

https://spectator.us/pompeo-china-more-transparent/

not sure Id trust a word the Whitehouse is saying on this, well about as much as Id trust the chinese government!

they are looking to blame everyone but themselves, in true trump style

I may be naive, but I’d trust China as much as I’d trust the USA and the Uk.

I’ve heard (through the Imperial grapevine) that strong immunosuppressants are the main therapy in severe cases. Initial regime was pump full of antivirals, then followed by the immunosuppressants (I was told which class, but not my field, so I don’t recall). Antivirals weren’t having an effect, so they’re not bothering with those now.

This was about a week ago, so may well have changed again. Seems a very steep learning curve.

Does anyone know what has happened to the Home Secretary?

surely they should be front & centre ?

I can understand why theyve put Marc Francois back in his box, but as much as I dislike her, surely Patel should be heading up news confernces etc?

Three questions for China.

1. Why aren’t you closing your wet meat markets?

2. Why aren’t you closing your wet meat markets?

3. Why aren’t you closing your wet meat markets?

Antivirals are sadly unlikely to be effective against COVID-19. The reason being that they were never screened against this virus and require concentrations that will not be achievable clinically. Immune suppression is the line to prevent the descent to ARDS, and this has been the research track for a generation. Every potential therapy I looked at today with our team has immunosuppressant activity.

Steroids are a mainstay, for a short term therapy there Seems to be little else available. I’ve spent an age looking for better “steroids” that don’t have the dreadful safety profile. It’s hard.

I’m on prophylactic antibiotics this week in the hope to stave off possible post viral infections. That’s a learning too.

BTW in sever Covid infection the disregulation of clotting is a serious confounded of mortality. When D Dimer climbs it is not good news. Anticoagulation therapy should be given and I assume is.

Zhou et al Lancet 2020.

Kimbers,

All the government offices have been subsumed by the role of prime minister. That’s why we don’t have a deputy prime minister.

Traditionally the role of deputy prime minister is there in case the prime minister finds himself indisposed/ dead.

Is that self administered ABs or is that now a recognised precaution?

CEO of Astra Zeneca just on peston talking up a drug they have in trial to shut down cytokine cascade

inkster
Member
Kimbers,

All the government offices have been subsumed by the role of prime minister. That’s why we don’t have a deputy prime minister.

Traditionally the role of deputy prime minister is there in case the prime minister finds himself indisposed/ dead.

just seems odd, Gove, Sharma, Sunak, Buckland, Hancock, even Shapps have done media rounds

youd think that Home Secretary wouldve been pushing the stay locked down stuff?

conscious decision not to go hardline, the nudge unit softly, softly approach?
or is she revising for the sensitivity training shes going to have to sit through after the bullying investigation?
locked down in a foreign country while secretly meeting with their defense minister?

edit
just seen this

https://news.sky.com/story/priti-patel-in-bitter-clash-with-yvette-cooper-over-commons-committee-no-show-11970777

Kimbers,

Just read that, seems like the sensitivity training is beginning to pay dividends……not.

You’re right though, the Home Secretary should be front and centre at a time like this but as I explained earlier, we don’t have a Home Secretary any more, that role is reserved for the prime minister now, along with all other roles.

Boris thinks a cabinet is for arranging ornaments and trinkets, just like granny used to do before she was sacrificed in the name of herd immunity.

The only annomaly in all this seems to be Rishi Sunak, who Boris thought would be his patsy. Somehow Sunak has managed to escape this cabinet of curiosities and emerged as his own man, to the surprise of many, including me! He seems to be the only credible member of the government, all the others seem to be incompetent and/or terrified.

I wish the UK leadership had more in common with NZ. Jacinda Ardern didn’t **** around.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/new-zealand-isnt-just-flattening-the-curve-its-squashing-it/ar-BB12fSb7?ocid=sf&fbclid=IwAR15_8EIu7g9IspN5YiZYmNESZNcOlO3S44s5cyWstJd9xf6bLTux4EcWHc#image=BB12fSb7_1|2

I may be naive, but I’d trust China as much as I’d trust the USA and the Uk.

That’s the sort of cynicism which leads to people believing 5G conspiracy theories they read on Facebook. Western government are far from perfect but they are far more accountable than the CCP.

You have a Cabinet largely purged of talent or certainly what I might call true leadership. The likes of Gove might be clever but they aren’t true leaders more like schemers. It’s really disappointing. Boris is a good times PM, a Brexit showboater, far from ideal in this crisis even if he wasn’t very ill. Maybe I’m getting old but give me any of Major, Blair or Brown at this time. At least you could believe you had a responsible adult at the wheel with gravitas despite their obvious faults (especially Blair).

Just a thought….

Should Labour engage in some form of government of national unity or go in for the kill?

I have empathy for Boris Johnson in his personal predicament but no sympathy. Were in a mess entirely of his own making. Like Trump he has assembled a clan of yes men who are running around like headless chickens. The current mob are so dismal they have us pining for Jeremy Hunt for flip sake.

The Tories have gone from a huge majority to looking like a wounded animal and maybe they should be put down as soon as possible. The new style government that Dom and Bojo have assembled has fallen at the first hurdle and should not be propped up. It’s not because they are tories that I say this it is that this new style of government is systemically unfit for purpose.

Take them to the wet meat market I say. I posted on the Labour leadership thread a couple of months back that it would be a mistake to surrender to the idea of 10 years of Tory rule, I said at the time that were living in volatile times and mentioned the black swan idea about unforseen events and even suggested that coronavirus could have a role in upsetting the political apple cart.

Labour need to grow a pair and grow them quickly. They’ve assembled a shadow cabinet that looks massively more impressive than the real cabinet and we couldn’t have said that a few months ago. Don’t get sucked in to this we’re all in this together shtick, if you do then the Jacob Lynch Mobs of this world will have us on toast and we’ll wake up in a few months time feeling rather sore in the posterior.

Sorry if this is a digression from the essential nature of this thread but it’s after midnight so it’ll be gone by the morning. Maybe we need a coronavirus and it’s political and economic implications thread to keep this one on track.

I’ll start one now, titled ‘We’re all in this together yeah?’

Rydster,

Western governments are only more accountable than the CCP if we hold them to account. We aren’t at the moment, were being sedated by the ‘were all in this together’ lie and were about to get forked.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30845-X/fulltext

New piece regarding the potential of a second wave.

Also talks about the CFR.

Based on Chinese data.

Somethings definitley afoot with Priti Patel, Kay Burley just grilled a Tory MP about her whereabouts/what shes doing and he was unconvincng with every answer. Its probably as simple that shes toxic and will say something controversial like hanging/deporting anyone breaking lockdown rules

More great stuff from TiRed!

BBC News reporting the Passport Office staff being sent back to work in batches for social distancing. Not sure why they are a key role with FCO no travel guidance, other than emergency passports to repatriate, which I thought embassies dealt with?

MrsMC back in the office today. Domestic violence cases going up, families in crisis need dealing with, no official guidance from managers how SW deal with balancing statutory roles with practical safety and no PPE in sight. Bugger!

Is the Passport Office thing Pritti Patel’s area? The message staff were given has her trademark subtlety all over it according to the BBC report!

It could be she is genuinely frightened and has gone to ground.

Not sure why they are a key role with FCO no travel guidance, other than emergency passports to repatriate, which I thought embassies dealt with?

Yeah the passport office is Home Office territory I believe. There’s certain oddball circumstances that need passport offices functioning like babies born abroad that need bringing back to the UK now, but probably doesn’t need whole offices re-opened. That said, if they can run a minimal function safely then its one less aspect of life that isn’t building up a massive backlog while were locked down. If you can do it online I expect renewals will be pretty constant even though people don’t need them, they conversely have more spare time to do jobs like that.

For those interested in the daily reporting of deaths and the respective figures from PHE, NHS and ONS..

CEBM

This is how yesterday’s NHS figures break down:

Table of the date of 828 deaths reported for the 8th April.

Date Number of Deaths
07-April 2020 135
06-April 2020 306
05-April 2020 162
04-April 2020 93
03-April 2020 63
02- April 2020 23
01-April 2020 17
31-March 2020 1
: :
04-March 2020 1
Total 828

In other words, keep looking at the trend not the daily headline.

I got out of the covid ward earlier in the week. Had 9 nights there and one failed discharged when I bounced back within 4 hours.

To be honest, it all got quite grim at one point. I was on hourly obs and they had a bed ready for me in ITU. Dodged that bullet though, partially by choosing to sit up all night and take charge of my breathing, it was hard work but I was not prepared to just lay down and deteriorate further. I had about three days of being properly, scarily ill.

Home now but a long way to go. Lungs are functioning really badly so I get breathless and knackered quickly. Nothing I can really do to accelerate recovery, just need to give it time.

Four guys on my part of the ward, three of us under 45 years old and no underlying health conditions between us. Scary stuff.

Frank, It’s good to see your post. That’s great news albeit a long way to go. If anyone still underestimates this illness, your experience is worth sharing. Take care and rest well.

Glad to hear you’re back at home @Franksinatra it sounds horrendous, take it easy and keeping posting updates.

Scary stuff.

Sounds it.

Glad to have you back with us.

Really feel for your family watching you go through this.

All the best Franko, good to hear you’re home.

Glad to hear you’re home Frank.

@franksinatra

good to see you back

by choosing to sit up all night and take charge of my breathing

hope you don’t mind – but what do you mean by this?

@ Inkster. ‘re the markets

Maybe the virus didn’t actually come from a bat toastie, after all, so why deprive the citizens of Wuhan of their tasty treats?

Pangolin pasty, anyone?

Great to hear you have returned home Frank. Cheered my morning up!

That’s good news this morning.

Your “I’m a fighter” badge from Dominic Raab will be in the post.

by choosing to sit up all night and take charge of my breathing
hope you don’t mind – but what do you mean by this?

Yes Frank this ‘start spreading the news’ IGMC
good to see you back.

Yay! Glad your back mate.

Welcomoe back Frank. I dodged the admission bullet by the same breathing. I think fitness does help here. O2 transport will be more efficient in a healthy cyclist compared to the great untrained. So for less lung function, you probably have slightly better SATS. 14-days in an my lungs still hurt and climbing the stairs leaves me breathless.

It could be she is genuinely frightened and has gone to ground.

She might have an underlying medical condition that means she really should not be out in public. I have no idea btw.