What the F? 'The wheel decision isnt our choice'

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  • What the F? 'The wheel decision isnt our choice'
  • Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    upset by a wheel size? er… :mrgreen:

    orangeboy
    Member

    I can still order 26 1 1/2 b Tyres from a very long time ago , so not to worried about demise of 26″ wheel stuff any time soon

    mrmo
    Member

    decent 26″ stuff will be around for a couple of years and then start to disappear.

    Find good 7spd or 8spd now, won’t be long before 9spd is off the menu as well.
    Find a good cartridge bottom bracket, etc.

    Yes you will be able to find the cheap stuff but that is all you will find.

    TBH i don’t know if the bike industry is actually doing themselves any favours. They seem to be trying to force new sales, but speaking to a few, people are holding off buying because they don’t want to be stuck with something they won’t be able to get parts for in a year or two.

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Subscriber

    If 650b doesn’t sell, 26 will get reinvented next year.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Subscriber

    I think that 26″ stuff (and by that I mean rims and tyres) will be around for a good deal longer than that!

    Once you move outside of the rarified air of MBR/STW, there’s a good deal of folks for whom 26″ has, and will continue to work perfectly.

    Premier Icon dannybgoode
    Subscriber

    @mrmo – slightly flawed argument.

    You could retro fit 9/10 speed stuff on to an older bike – ok rear hubs sometimes needed to be replaced but generally you could upgrade an older bike but you could keep the same brakes, bb, frame etc.

    With 650B / 29er you have to in most cases ditch the bike.

    With literally millions of 26ers kicking around the world that is going to take more than a couple of years to die off.

    Cheers

    Danny B

    orangeboy
    Member

    I Can still buy good taper BBs , Royce and Phil wood supply them in normal and campy taper

    kevj
    Member

    The invisible hand will dictate. There are far more 26ers riding the trails who will need replacement bits than any other fad wheel size.

    Premier Icon Wookster
    Subscriber

    I wouldn’t buy a new bike at the moment, it’s all too much up in the air!

    Luckily the ability to purchase has been removed for a few years so Ive escaped this terrible fate, and Im now riding a “classic” 2011 100mm 26er in fact the big S decided that 26ers ate dead about three months after I bought it so Im now niche-tastic! Unlike the 29er crowd!!! 😆

    mrmo
    Member

    danny, find a 1″ suspension fork, i have been through this before. good 1″ forks disappeared very quickly even though there were plenty of fairly new bikes around. Have a look at the road market and look for 1″ forks. You can find them but the choice is dwiddling fast, and you can still get a topend frame with a 1″ steerer.

    not saying you won’t get something, just don’t expect anything half decent. Have a look at the choice of rim brake rims, not much in the way of decent stuff now.

    Orange boy, custom machine shop offerings that most can’t afford, find a UN91 or equivalent.

    robdob
    Member

    I came back on here after a couple of years break (glad to see TJ gone). I don’t read mags so was surprised to see this 29″ wheel size, never mind 650b (which mugs are buying into that? Are you kidding me?) Ok, 29″ gives a nice alternative but 650b is playing you all as idiots. I can’t believe people are actually buying into it, I really can’t.
    Stil riding a 20yo 26″ bike, my 2010 26″ bike works fine too. Don’t ever remember seeing a 29″ bike round here (W Yorks), no one I know owns one or is even thinking about it.
    I think I’ll be able to buy decent kit for my bike for a few decades yet…..

    mrmo
    Member

    The invisible hand will dictate. There are far more 26ers riding the trails who will need replacement bits than any other fad wheel size.

    all the more reason to not provide parts, as parts wear you nudge the riders onto the new stuff by removing choice.

    b r
    Member

    “It’s not the consumers choice”

    But they are quite correct, in that you can only buy what is been produced and sold.

    Premier Icon garage-dweller
    Subscriber

    The chaos and uncertainty in the mountain bike market is a massive turn off for me.

    No new bikes or forks or wheels until the major manufacturers stop changing their mind every 5minutes.

    Well done bike industry you’ve turned me off spending potential four figure sums.

    In the meantime I will continue to ride my bike and use up my spares without panicking.

    While we are at it can we settle on just a couple of bb standards?

    b r
    Member

    I think I’ll be able to buy decent kit for my bike for a few decades yet…..

    🙄

    muddyfunster
    Member

    How is this news? It’s been on the horizon for ages and sheeple will just lap it up.

    Remeber when 29ers were starting to pop up on people’s radar? You had to buy a frame, source tyres….wait for decent forks to emerge….it happened very slowly over years until some bigger brands really got behind it. Even now they represent a tiny minority on the trails.

    But look at 650b. You can buy, or very soon buy forks, tyres, rims in virtually every imaginable flavour already, but yet you can barely buy a 650b bike anywhere yet. Strange that rockshox, fox, maxxis schwalbe wtb etc etc etc should produce such a vast array of products for non existent bikes.

    The trap has been set. It’s just a matter of weeks before the “new” 650b bikes start filtering through to magazines – I predict rave reviews and very favourable comparisons to their 26 and 29er counterparts.

    It’s a joke, you only have to look at the race results from the enduro world series to see that any benefits from 650b are largely negligible. Unfortunately 29ers have shown bike companies just how gullible people are and now they see another massive opportunity to sell the emperors some new(new) clothes.

    PJM1974
    Member

    I don’t buy this at all.

    Consumers will vote with their wallets, which is why 29″ers haven’t taken hold of the market completely yet. All of my bikes are 26″ and will continue to be so for the forseeable.

    There will be a demand for 26″ rims and tyres for some considerable time yet, if the main players leave that marketplace then niche players will have an absolute field day.

    kevj
    Member

    all the more reason to not provide parts, as parts wear you nudge the riders onto the new stuff by removing choice.

    No, while there is a market, someone will supply. It would take a concerted effort by all parts manufacturers to decide simultaneously to stop. Even then, someone else will step in.

    They can not and will not stop selling until it becomes economically unviable.

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Subscriber

    I just read the bit down there about the “new” mojo hd-r.

    It just sounded like a faffy compromised bs exercise.

    I’ll be sticking with what I have for as long as I can.

    muddyfunster
    Member

    PJM1974

    I don’t buy this at all.

    Consumers will vote with their wallets,

    It’s just that there will be very few “standard” mid to high end full suspension bikes for you to buy next year. manufacturers are conspiring to wipe them out.

    mrmo
    Member

    No, while there is a market, someone will supply. It would take a concerted effort if all parts manufacturers to decide simultaneously to stop. Even then, someone else will step in.

    Is there a market though? how many people replace suspension forks, in the real world not STW? forks come with bikes. I seem to remember that Rock Shox only offer spares for three years after release and they are not alone. So the solution will be to run 650b forks in place of 26″ if you need a new fork, it is near enough.

    How many people buy wheels aftermarket? very little demand for replacement rims anymore as no rim brakes to wear them out.

    you’ll find some stuff, just the choice will be reduced and may not be perfect.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    It’s a joke, you only have to look at the race results from the enduro world series to see that any benefits from 650b are largely negligible.

    Please, not that old chestnut again!

    muddyfunster
    Member

    rOcKeTdOg

    Please, not that old chestnut again!

    Yes. That. Again.

    brooess
    Member

    I’ve been mountain biking for nearly 20 years and I don’t recall any of the significant innovations ever being resisted like these new wheel sizes are, and I think that says the customers are smelling a rat…

    Steel to ally to carbon – ok
    Suspension – all good
    Riser bars – ok
    Disc brakes – yep
    Dropper posts – aye
    More gears – yep

    With all of these, they felt like a significant positive development which would make riding more enjoyable and so we’ve been happy to spend the cash.
    But this wheel size stuff just stinks of industry-driven change for the sake of it… if 26 inch is so bad, how come it’s lasted nearly a quarter of a century without debate? 29ers – ok, it’s a new/additional choice, fair enough – But ditching an embedded wheel size and refusing to support it, leaving 99% of riders up the creek with a bike they’re perfectly happy with but can’t get spares for… that’s not good business, it’s trickery… if articles like the OP are correct I’ve got to fork out for a new frame, forks, tyres, wheels and gearing (whole new bike essentially), with the old parts likely unsaleable… and that stinks.
    If 26 is continued to be fully supported, I don’t care if 650b is introduced but if 26 gets ditched on the whim of the manufacturers… that’s another matter

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    650b is what they’re all betting on now. The market is saturated and a bit stagnant for new kit and it’s at the point where people are better off buying a year or two old models that are just as great as brand new models but a fraction of the price. So the answer is to push something that forces new kit. 29 is the ideal for new kit with a benefit, but it’s too much of a change especially for our twisty little European trails. 650b is of barely much benefit but a lot more people seem content to give it a go, so it’s a winner… so long as 26 dies, as far as manufacturers are concerned.

    PJM1974
    Member

    It’s just that there will be very few “standard” mid to high end full suspension bikes for you to buy next year. manufacturers are conspiring to wipe them out.

    The market goes through phases where we’re told what the next big thing is. Ten years ago, our Fox Float suspension and hydraulic discs were new fangled, game-changing technology. Since then we’ve had a proliferation of 35lb all mountain bikes, clever platform damping systems that managed to hide all manner of suspension sins and then shock leverage technology got clever. Short of re-invention there’s nothing groundbreaking on the horizon that could be applied at all price points, so it’s no wonder that 29″ and 27.5″ wheel sizes have been marketed – especially as 29″ers haven’t set the world alight over in Europe in quite the way big companies expected.

    I’m not planning on buying another bike for a long time yet. If I do run out of tyres, then I daresay someone will still make them in 26″ for me. Likewise the same is true for the rims.

    It’s not as if you can’t find non-tapered steerer forks right now is it?

    discoduck
    Member

    I think your right “rave reviews” get the ca$h tills ringing, it also pays for printing, editing, it gets the manufacturers wheels turning and the whole process evolves into something else,

    I’m no expert on the bike industry but I do know that the lucrative secondhand market created by forums such as this and many others has meant that bikes don’t rot away in garages un used and un loved they are sold and moved on, which is great for the Rider, but not so good for the industry.

    It’s like kick starting the banking sector but for the biking industry ?

    orangeboy
    Member

    Yep shimano have long since stopped better taper bb but tbh my ti hardtail has a un55
    The weight is not that much of an issue tucked in the middle of the bike ,

    Forks , rims will be worst items if supply drops off at a normal price

    Partly depends on how long you keep bikes
    My 10 year old fsr has parts that are unavailible

    kevj
    Member

    Is there a market though

    Really? Yes, and there always will be. Organisations like CRC are founded on after market sales. Today, the % of bikes out there requiring replacement parts or upgrades is at worst 80% 26er.

    Even if other wheel size does indeed take off, it will be years before providing 26″ bits becomes commercially unviable.

    Bike manufacturers are doing this to expand sales (not restrict) by diversification. So you honestly think they all sit around a table and ‘conspire’ against us or simply try to compete against rival bike manufactures who happen to make 650b?

    cheez0
    Member

    As has already been said, if the big boys wont make parts that people need then there are plenty of chinese companies that will

    They wont give a shit about ‘maximising revenue’. They will gladly take over the market with smaller margins

    Who will lose out?

    mrmo
    Member

    It’s not as if you can’t find non-tapered steerer forks right now is it?

    because there is still a number of bikes not using tapered headtubes.

    find 1″ forks, find old style 1 1/4″ forks, find short forks for a 63mm or 70mm hard tail. Or how about 27×1.25 wheels and tyres. There are a huge number of standards that get ditched, have a look how international disc tabs are disappearing rapidly.

    maurizio
    Member

    http://spokemagazine.com/2012/11/30/wheel-war-four/

    A quick read of that will explain the anger…
    “It’s not the consumers choice”
    Hear ye, hear ye abandon ship!

    Sorry for the doom mongering, normally i’m more in favour of ‘who cares, get out and enjoy riding’ attitude, but this has upset me quite a bit. Sure offer a new wheelsize (27.5) with arguable benefits/negatives, as in many other sports there are different tools for the job (i’m once again for one bike to rule them all, but never mind..). But ‘letting us know’ that all our expensive bikes, nor not so 😆 will be without parts later down the line.. I for one am about to finish gathering monies for my dream build, but where does that leave me if i’m about to drop more money than i doubt i ever will on what the manufactures have decided is antiquated..

    petition?

    mrmo
    Member

    Really? Yes, and there always will be. Organisations like CRC are founded on after market sales. Today, the % of bikes out there requiring replacement parts or upgrades is at worst 80% 26er.

    CRC, Planet X, Merlin can supply cheap because usually they are selling old stock, grey imports, and OEM parts. They are not selling aftermarket forks. Of the people i know very very few ever replace forks, there is a market but it isn’t really that big.

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    I’m trying to work out what headset my new frame will need. I’ve only ever had a normal one. New frame is tapered with an external lower and maybe an integrated top.
    Total gobbledeedook.

    kevj
    Member

    Well Mrmo, thank you for a decent rebuttal, I shall revisit this thread in a few years and either thank you graciously, or be a gent and say nothing.

    Opinions eh?

    Premier Icon adsh
    Subscriber

    Biggest problem in the short term will be warranty replacements of 26″ frames bought as frame only with decent forks and wheels in the build.

    loddrik
    Member

    Once you move outside of the rarified air of MBR/STW, there’s a good deal of folks for whom 26″ has, and will continue to work perfectly.

    I think you’ll find there’s a lot of us in here too. No intention of moving from 26″ whatsoever. The 650b is a marketing ploy plain and simple. And the companies getting behind it are going to make loads from fickle consumers who believe what they are told and believe their lives really will improve if they ‘upgrade’.

    Some of us just sit and shake our heads. Even now the classifieds are awash with people selling off their 26″ stuff to go nice and shiny 29″. At at least 29″ offers something different, albeit not much. 650b is a marketing move, an answer to a question consumers had no interest in asking.

    orangeboy
    Member

    The number of people affected by lack of 1×1/4 forks stopping is rather small compared to 1×1/8
    And as pointed out above forks are not somthing many people change to
    Often

    Oh and if you mean 27x 1 1/4 tyres they are still easy 27 x 1 1/8 a bit harder but still only a few days to get
    And it’s a long time since either were current

    mrmo
    Member

    kevj, parts will be available, not saying they won’t just that getting good kit will be an issue.

    To give some history i have a Bontrager Race, new in ’97 and came with a 1″ fork. within a couple of years the fork choice was down to Marzocchi or Magura, ( i replaced the Pace fork with a Magura) both in 80mm, a couple years more and the choice was Marzocchi at 100mm. basically unusable on a frame designed for 63mm forks. If i was to replace the forks now? I asked Magura if they had any spares if i serviced the fork, the response was if the fork works don’t touch it as they have no parts for it.

    I now the bike is old now, but the parts issue began years ago. haven’t used the bike in 5-6 years….

    I fitted it out with 8spd Middleburn square Taper, XT, etc. I can get 8spd but it won’t be equivalent. I used ceramic rims, but they seem to have disappeared now.

    My road bike is 9spd Campagnolo, i can get cassettes, but only Veloce, so nothing fancy.

    I do have a Trek Top Fuel from 2010, which at the moment i can replace everything should i need to, but i don’t it all works, (well the rear shock needs a service!!!! but not an issue yet)

    I don’t tend to buy a new bike every year, i don’t tend to buy lots of bits, i just ride bikes into the ground then replace when dead.

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