I think it’ll be the new entrants to the sport that will probably drive the decline if the smaller wheel especially with things like the Rockhopper being a traditional first bike. By the time this has been upgraded and ridden, their next bike will likely be another 29er because that is what they know….in the same way that my new frame will end up with 26 inch wheels because that’s what I have to carry over.

It’ll be interesting to see where the industry goes once the if wheel bikes are the norm? What will they do then to drive sales? Being a fairly small sport, surely they have got to realise that sales will stagnate as the market reaches saturation point? This combined with stuff lasting longer and a strong second hand market driven by high cost of new products and the ease of trading on forums and eBay.

So are DJ, 4X and DH bikes all moving to 650b too?

BMXs and Bromptons too.

It’ll be interesting to see where the industry goes once the if wheel bikes are the norm? What will they do then to drive sales?

We’ve still got the full effect of the 650b v 29er debate to be had!

Rather than letting the 26er and 29er exist in harmony there has been a constant battle, which is odd as choice is a good thing – this ‘new’ size has just been thrown in to kill off rather than open up the choices, unfortunately.

I’m not one for conspiracy theories. The market is simply responding to a number of factors.

1. A bigger wheel that has some of the advantages of a 29er but is easier to design around
2. A critical mass of interest in the new wheel size
3. Few other innovations happening at the moment.

It pretty funny to accuse the industry of forcing our hand.. by all accounts it is frame manufacturers that are following the trend enabled by the tyres and forks folks. It’s herd not conspiracy theory.

It’s all good news for us riders as the bikes will get better and better. We’ll probably have a swing to 650b for awhile and it’ll either be advantageous and stay or fade out with betamax.

All part of the evolution that has brought us some amazing bikes at reasonable prices.

Me, I’ll be riding my 26″ 5spot for a few more years by which time I’ll buy another amazing Turner of 26″/650b/29″/?” variety.

It pretty funny to accuse the industry of forcing our hand.. by all accounts it is frame manufacturers that are following the trend enabled by the tyres and forks folks.

Arent they the industry?

IS disc mounts are dead

A rare case of Betamax winning the standards war.

Seen this all before. The arguments on this site about flat bars vs riser and vees vs hydro were just as vociferous and bitter.

Most times people realise that there are benefits or see which way the winds blowing and act accordingly.

You’re seriously equating V-brakes vs disc with the introduction of a wheel size even those honest people in the industry admit makes no real difference and is just a marketing thing? Personally I still run flat bars – that choice doesn’t affect any of the other component choices on my bike (well I suppose it allows me to use bar-ends without the fashion police objecting – actually that’s a good one, as there doesn’t seem to be any problem with buying a wide variety of bar-ends when the impression seems to be that there is no demand for them).

To give some history i have a Bontrager Race, new in ’97 and came with a 1″ fork

Well that’s the equivalent of buying a 26″ bike in 5 years time. But not exactly – I have a feeling that the next big thing might just be 26″ wheels when the marketing people discovery that 27″ (I’m making the policy decision to call it what it really is rather than what the marketing folk call it) doesn’t provide sustainable increased sales in the way they though it would. You’ve got to look at that in a proper historical perspective – Rockshox was only founded in 1989 and my ’92 Dyna-Tech has a 1.25″ headtube – there never were huge numbers of forks made for 1″ steerer, it was always a niche.

How many people buy wheels aftermarket? very little demand for replacement rims anymore as no rim brakes to wear them out.

Plenty enough to sustain several whole companies who only really sell aftermarket rims/wheels. Not to mention that even companies like Mavic who supply a significant amount of OEM stuff make a significant proportion of their profit in the aftermarket (I’d go so far as to suggest more than half).

Something for everyone there…

29ers… I blame Gary Fisher. If I ever see him i’m going to give him a great big kick up the arse.

Also…

what we need is an industry spokesman to blow the whistle on how the bike industry (bikes, parts, magazines, websites, retailers, e-tailers, servicing) collaborates to mug the consumer of his hard-earned cash.
that will dispel all this myth, spin and conjecture.
but that’s never going to happen – and we all know that’s what’s happening anyway…

I suspect this is all coming about because the market has slowed right up: all the markets that have provided growth so far (US and Europe) are no longer growing as we’re all reining in on disposable income spend; and because a lot of the new growth in cycling is road rather than MTB…
So forecast profits are likely taking a massive hit… hence this rather desperate industry response…

2 things I think the industry might have overlooked compared to previous changes in standards:
1. We no longer have the cash to spend on not-entirely-necessary-bike-stuff that we’ve had for the last 15+ years… so less willing to replace existing kit that is entirely fit for purpose
2. Social media makes it easier for us to share our views, and recognising that a lot of other riders are as unhappy as I am, makes me less willing to replace my kit

Remember, as CharlieTheBikemonger posted ^^ if there’s no demand then there’s no business… so if we don’t want 650B, just don’t buy it and the industry cannot kill off 26″ if there’s no demand for their dictated replacement…

what we need is an industry spokesman to blow the whistle on how the bike industry (bikes, parts, magazines, websites, retailers, e-tailers, servicing) collaborates to mug the consumer of his hard-earned cash.
that will dispel all this myth, spin and conjecture.
but that’s never going to happen – and we all know that’s what’s happening anyway…

Do you really need a whistle blower to tell you businesses are trying to make money? Seriously?

Remember, as CharlieTheBikemonger posted ^^ if there’s no demand then there’s no business… so if we don’t want 650B, just don’t buy it and the industry cannot kill off 26″ if there’s no demand for their dictated replacement…

+1

You’re seriously equating V-brakes vs disc with the introduction of a wheel size

No, my point was the arguing was just as bad, then the arguing dies down when people realise its just bikes, they can still have fun riding in circles in the dirt, and get on with their lives…

Have any of you been in a bike shop recently? Quite a few round here are full of road a comuter bikes and stock a token number of mtbs. Road looks comercially cool and mountain bikes look a bit naff whatever the size of the wheels

Agree with Bruce – when I was last in my nearest Leisure Lakes, the road / commuter section had grown loads and had taken over a lot of space where the mtb’s used to be.

I guess for a shop they are easier to stock spares for too because the ‘standards’ seem to have some shelf live.

The market was always going to struggle, especially when you consider who the average cyctlist is demographically and the impact the recession has had on them. Not only that, the second hand market is stronger than ever made easier by the internet. When I first started riding, I just hoarded stuff because selling it via the back of MBUK was a pain. Now with forums its easy.

I’ll be honest who really cares which wheel size wins or lasts the distance? If you buy a product (new bike) and it works for you and where/how you ride – it becomes immaterial surely whether it’s a 26er, 29er or their bastard offspring. If its any good people will continue to use it and create demand for it and its ancillary products (wheels, bb’s, tyres etc) for as long as people actually use them. As mentioned above – if people don’t continue to buy something (immaterial of how good it may actually be!) it wont last. Hence why my LBS is frankly lacking in a full and decent range of Penny Farthings and Recumbent cycles the bastards!

Stuff this for a game of soldiers, I’m going back to BMX. 20in. 4130. Job done.

I’m with Broooeesss (back up the top)

My last “big” bike change (frame wheels forks brakes) was about 2005 when I went to discs (although iirc I had disc ready forks already) – I moved from an fsr xc to Yeti 575 and difference was night and day, in terms of geometry as much as anything. I never questioned that i was getting a far better overall product

Now – I would need to sell a perfectly good bike which I thought was pretty future proof (bolt through rear, tapered head-tube, modern geometry) plus wheels and forks just to get a slightly bigger wheel

which has p*ssed me off. 29 I can see the benefit of – 27.5 I can’t. But if you believe Santa Cruz – it’s not them deciding this, it’s the customers telling them that that’s what they want

But if you believe Santa Cruz – it’s not them deciding this, it’s the customers telling them that that’s what they want

Hey I sympathise with how you feel, but that last bit about customers demanding 27.5 is bollox

Now – I would need to sell a perfectly good bike which I thought was pretty future proof (bolt through rear, tapered head-tube, modern geometry) plus wheels and forks just to get a slightly bigger wheel

so don’t!

there’s no need to change, unless your old bike is wrecked at which point it doesn’t matter what your old bike is if you’re replacing it anyway.

@ asterix – I posted the link below before. they produced 26 inch version of the Bronson but pulled it ‘cos it wouldn’t sell

http://www.bikemag.com/gear/exclusive-video-bronson-santa-cruzs-new-650b-trail-bike/

Having seen the Ibis Mojo news on the front page this morning, I have to commend Ibis for getting it absolutely right.
…More of this, please.

“£2399 for the frameset.”

Having a laugh, surely?

Agree with Bruce – when I was last in my nearest Leisure Lakes, the road / commuter section had grown loads and had taken over a lot of space where the mtb’s used to be.

Yep.

Most people don’t have a lot of need for a mountain bike.

Commuting is becoming more popular in some areas and people are choosing the tool for the job. This is a good thing.

Keeping up with the latest ‘innovations’ in mountain biking is expensive and can be worthwhile. Having said that, with fairly light-weight & decent suspension, brakes, transmissions and tyres having already been invented, it is difficult to see how a slight change in wheel size, requiring a new frame and tyres can really be justified in riding terms.

Santa Cruz possibly did have a lot of people asking for 650b wheels, but they are selling expensive kit to people with a (generally) large disposable income, who may want the latest fad. I suspect that there weren’t 1000s of people demanding it though.

It’s funny reading the microcosum UK perspective. Have a look at the Oregon Enduro results from the weekend. You had to go down to 7th to find a 26″ rider

Didnt the olympics put the lie to the performance effect of different standards, with a podium that had 26″, 29″, HT and FS on it?

all the way to 7th? The last Gorrick race is our real world – the Oregon Enduro isn’t. It’s all relative. Nice to see that we’re not quite as gullible in the UK.

It doesn’t matter. US sales of high end mountain bikes dwarf the UK’s. The US is the real world to Trek, SC, Specialized etc. You wouldn’t believe how many XX1 Bronson’s I saw at the weekend. I’m not advocating any of it BTW.

What about Fort William? Both Men and Women’s races won with 26″ wheels.

What about the winning men’s junior… He was riding a 650b Scott Gambler

crashtestmonkey – Member

Didnt the olympics put the lie to the performance effect of different standards, with a podium that had 26″, 29″, HT and FS on it?

And a 650b…

Exactly. The question you have to ask is would the same people have taken the top 6 places if they had been riding on 26″ or 650b wheels?
The human engine is also quite important.

90% of them were on 650b! One 29″ I believe.

I totally agree though but racing is the ultimate form of marketing. Remember Specialized signing Hill? Sales of the Demo (admittedly a good bike) were 2x any other DH bike.

Let’s be honest, it’s bullshit.

I’ve been knocking about with other MTB’ers for years.
I’ve never, ever heard anyone say ‘That was a great ride folks, but I really, really wish my wheels were a bit bigger’.

It’s cynical, obvious, unecessary corporate marketing bollocks and is genuinely turning me off the whole scene.

Making things that are lighter, cheaper and stronger is true innovation.

But it doesn’t sell advertising space to appeal to thick, status obsessed idiots who judge the worth of others based on the little silver numbers on the boot lids of their cars.

And I’m getting a bit tired with those who should know better attempting to justify this whole ****’s outing.

Emperor’s new clothes?

Damn right.

‘That was a great ride folks, but I really, really wish my wheels were a bit bigger’.

Did you nick that line off me? 😉

Life used to be so simple.

Agree with Rusty

Well, if this whole conspiratorial marketing led bike industry is so upsetting, take up rambling.

Now that would be flouncing 😀

Making things that are lighter, cheaper and stronger is true innovation.

But you know you can only pick 2, right? 😉

I was away from mtbing a bit then couldn’t believe all the ‘new’ pigeonholes that had cropped up while I had been away! No point in muttering about one bike doing all BITD as there has been loads of progress and innovation. Anyway BITD I was riding a Fisher with an Evolution headset and ordering in parts like Gripshift, Flexstem, etc (1991) so not hiding from following latest tech or trends.

That said I picked up the latest mbuk, 25 year anniversary edition, as I’d been there for issue 1. A little piece near the front mentioned how enduro bikes had taken things back full circle to one bike to do it all!

Perhaps ‘another’ wheel size was an obvious reaction to stop that!

Spot on Rusty …
Re 27.5 remember Americans love to be marketed to and have the new and shiney …
New wheel size keeps the old footfall going at shops …

26 and 29 will survive. It won’t be any more complex than that. If peple really want 27.5 they will just stick them in their 26 inch frames ….

I’m not arsed.

1.5 steerer now tapered etc. 26″ will be around.

1 1/8 forks are hardly ‘dead’ are they.

JCL – Member

It doesn’t matter. US sales of high end mountain bikes dwarf the UK’s. The US is the real world to Trek, SC, Specialized etc.
Quite right. From my experience, many US riders are even more status/kit obsessed than UK ones and talking a good ride is an art-form in both countries.

It helps that the population of the US is enormous and that luxury goods like bikes have always appeared been much cheaper over there too.

Having said that, I’m always amazed by the flashy kit on display at places like Llandegla car park -Oddly, it never seems to overtake myself and my fellow short-ride-weekend-warrior-dad friends, though… the few very fast descenders always seem to be on battered bitsa machines. Fast climbers on all kinds of XC weirdo bikes of all vintages.

You wouldn’t believe how many XX1 Bronson’s I saw at the weekend.

Well, I suppose that depends upon whether or not you have a Saturday job in Santa Cruz’s warehouse.

Well, I suppose that depends upon whether or not you have a Saturday job in Santa Cruz’s warehouse.

I think with his obsessive love in for all things 29 & Specialized, he has a job polishing the underside of my CEO’s desk with his head 😉

Making things that are lighter, cheaper and stronger is true innovation.

It isn’t though, is it? Making innovative things is true innovation.

As long as I can keep getting decent tyres then I really don’t care if 650b becomes dominant – my current big tyres make my bike so close to 650b size that there’s almost nothing in it and thus there’s clearance to run skinnier 650b tyres if it’s relegated to spare/wife bike duties.

Define ‘innovative’ then.

Me thinks bike companies are desperately scrabbling round for new! ideas.

Every years its a visual tweak etc etc.

Now we’ve got new! Murdered out forks…

That look like mazz 55’s

For once I actually feel sorry for bike shops. They have to stock loads of weird bits for old bikes already and with the multiplication of standards for just about everything they haven’t a chance of covering all the bases. It will just drive even more trade on line.
Or perhaps only the obsessed internet buyers will go for each new standard leaving the LBS to stock stuff for those who don’t feel the love for ‘new for the sake of it’.

There are some great bikes available right now. 😀