what size backpack for 1-2 night wild camp?

for a terranova 1man tent, sleep mat, sleeping bag, possible small tarp…then all the usual light weight stove, torch, ti pot etc etc

basically got everything but the backpack.

Depends on how well your gear packs down, and the season.

I can fit my standard, not ultra-lightweight bivvy gear (bivvy bag, mat, tarp, sleeping bag, clothes, food, water, etc.) in my 35-45l (expandable bag). Fine for a night or two, spring-autumn, might struggle in winter, but it’s got loops and stuff to attach stuff to the outside so would probably be ok.

Ymmv but in summer I get on with a 25l (BCB daysack) with small tent strapped externally with the, er, straps!

Prob go 35l if I wanted everything stowed inside the bag but I like to utilise the straps as once tent is pitched I have a daysack

as small as possible – get weight on the bike if you can.

I started with an osprey 22L. slowly moved kit onto the bike. use the same pack but lots less weight in it. much more comfortable & better handling too.

Why a tent and a tarp?

a little ‘porch style’ tarp

not bike packing.

I like the idea of hanging some equipment off the sac (in a dry bag)?

I’d go 40L-ish on the basis it would be more flexible. It would also depend on how much food and drink I’d need to carry.

And I hate things strapped to/hanging off rucksacks.

I’d avoid sticking stuff on the outside of the pack – it can fall off, snag, move around, and even be dangerous if it shunts you forwards scrambling down steep rocky terrain (eg Lake District). Far better IMO to get a slightly bigger pack (won’t weigh much more) and get everything inside, where it’s dry, safe and can’t swing around. Bigger packs are more versatile too – you can use it in autumn and winter when you’ll need more gear. It also means you can pack more booze and/or luxuries. Personally, I don’t get this current obsession with minimising size and weight if you’re not competing in some kind of race. For an insignificant bit of extra pack weight you get a far more versatile set-up and the chance to carry some bits & bobs that can make a trip safer and more enjoyable.

makes sense…cheers…what pack size then?

oh and what brand? any recommendations? I like the idea of a tall / narrow pack as it would lie nicely in the porch area (zephyros)

36 to 45ltr is perfect size for summer backpacking and doubles up as winter pack. Loom at Osprey packs, IMHO they are the best.

Personally, I’d be looking at 45 litres and bigger. Be disciplined packing so you’re not carrying stuff you won’t use (you’ll learn by experience). The air in your unused pack space really doesn’t weigh much. I really like Lowe Alpine packs for wild camping. Osprey look excellent and are more fashionable, if that matters. They cost more though.

Having got and used many sizes of rucksack when climbing I’ve never seen the need, summer or winter, UK or Alps, for a big rucksack. Mostly I used a 30 – 35L sack, could get a full rack, rope, shoes, chalkbag, spare clothing, etc in there. The usual gripe about packing: you pack a rucksack twice in a day – once before heading off to the crag; once when heading home.

Using a small rucksack means you have to *think* about what you take. Sadly this seems beyond most.

You could always tell the British climbers in the Alps: they were the ones staggering around under a huge rucksack.

Sorry – rant over 😉

Make?

Go for niche and UK (this is STW)
http://www.aiguillealpine.co.uk/products/rucksacks-bags/

Er…tent, sleeping bag, stove, sleeping mat, grub, booze, raincoat/trousers, hat, water, camera, warm tops. I’d struggle with a 35 litre, for sure, and that’s what I take on every camp, never mind in winter. To be fair though, I have a two-man tent which could be a bit smaller, and I tend to camp high up in the UK where it’s a bit cooler, even in summer. I could save a small amount of space ditching things like waterproof trousers, but why bother, especially in the Lake District.

If you are doing the Jennride this weekend then Aiguille Alpine are in the same building as the cafe and Hawkshead Brewery.

I like the look of that Aiguille stuff – looks like it would last a lifetime.

Aiguille stuff is really good – but if you;re going to be riding off-road put as much of it on the bike if possible. I either use a Carradice Camper Longflap or apidura/ revelate bags depending upon the level of beard and tattoo company.

all my wild camping kit goes in a 70 l rucksack with a seat and closed cell foam footprint on the outside – seems a lot but weighs only 13 kg without food.

This however is for scotland so includes sunscreen and woolly hats etc and is used for mutiday trips where I don’t see another person let alone a town

Most recent trip was 4 days without restocking. 17 kg weight as we set off. Temps ranged from 20c to 2 c. There was nothing in the bag that was not used. I was carrying slightly more than my share tho as it was shared with my missus and she needs to carry a little less 55l rucksac for her 14 kg at the start

It all depends on what point on the comfort / safety / weight scale you want to go on.

Leightwave rucksacs are what we use. Waterproof and light. However this is for walking – for cycling get the weight on the bike and distributed well.

If you are doing the Jennride this weekend then Aiguille Alpine are in the same building as the cafe and Hawkshead Brewery.

jenn ride this weekend?

Using a small rucksack means you have to *think* about what you take. Sadly this seems beyond most.

You could always tell the British climbers in the Alps: they were the ones staggering around under a huge rucksack.

+ 1 … a bigger sac means you’ll end up carrying more

Jenn ride in lakes this weekend, http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/jennride-southlakes100info-for-the-weekend-and-entry-on-the-day
I have a HAWG and some stuff strapped to bike, need to check weight of backpack for interest.

For a couple of nights backpacking, 35l will do and 45l is luxury. I’d be having a good look for something around the 45l/500g mark if you’re buying new. You can easily end up with 1-1.5kg sac if you’re not careful with a consequent impact on AUW.

I can generally fit all I need in a 20l with space to spare.

That includes all the stuff you mention (apart from tarp AND tent) plus down jacket, spare trousers, waterproofs and socks, food, small first aid kit, emergency bag etc. I think the total weight last time I bothered weighing was just under 5kg. That was only a one night away whilst racing a mountain marathon but done similar two night trips with same 20l rucksack. This is when using rucksack only, running not biking. Nothing strapped to outside as I would just lose it.

I do have some lightweight stuff that compresses well, but I have also done it a few times. Every time I come back, if I have not used something I don’t take it again. Soon get to a lean pack.

Suppose it depends on if your going as light as possible or heavier and slightly more comfortable

Have you looked at the OMM rucksacks? They are not bike specific but great for running/walking and come in 20l and 25l. I have both sizes and rate them for comfort and robustness. 25l is a great compromise size and should be enough.

45L for me when wild camping or biviing in the alps back in the day.

weighs only 13 kg without food.

That’s an awfully heavy bag. Getting it lighter is partly down to your approach / attitude and partly a matter of cost

Edit: with the right kit and not too many compromises about half that is quite doable

My rucksack on alpine climbs would weigh 10Kg with all my share of the climbing kit, bivy kit, rope and food. That was back in the 1980s, with modern lightweight kit it would be somewhere in the 7-8Kg range.

As ajf says: make a list of what you take, when you get back cross off everything you used. What’s left (apart from emergency stuff like First Aid Kit) can be considered for leaving at home the next time. Keep doing this and without spending any money you’ve cut down on weight and bulk. At this point you can start looking at treating yourself to lighter kit.

Get a copy of “Smarter Backpacking” by Jorgen Johansson for ideas.

Spin – Member

weighs only 13 kg without food.

That’s an awfully heavy bag. Getting it lighter is partly down to your approach / attitude and partly a matter of cost

Edit: with the right kit and not too many compromises about half that is quite doable [/quote]

Nope – I have been doing this for 40 years and its very refined kit. the only thing that is excess in that pack is a sub 200g seat and a 300g closed cell foam footprint for the tent rather than a 200g plain one.
Remember this was for a 4 day trek with no resupply possible, no mobile phone signal at times and at points a walk out would have been well over ten miles. This was not a kip in the woods above a town where you can bail if it rains / blows a gale / you get cold

We were expecting night time frosts

Tent is a two person lightweight 4 season tent – 2.6 kg ( £400). ( Mrs TJ had the jetboil stove) I want a tent that will stand up to a full on gale / storm as no escape was possible without calling the big yellow bird. Frinds of mine have had lighter decent quality tents collapes in gales in the highlands. I am not prepared to risk this hence a full on geodesic 3 season mountaineering tent

A full change of clothes incase of getting soaked ( several big river crossings) plus a fleece to wear and one for warmth at the campsite. Clean shirt, underpants and socks for each day. Long johns for evening and sleeping. 3 season sleeping bag – 1kg plus a silk liner. Small first aid kit, kindle, reading glasses. big thick wooly hat, winter mountaineering gloves, full set of robust waterproofs, shit shovel and bog roll, 400g sleep mat ( I’m 56 – I need this)

total cost of replacing the kit would be well over a grand – strong light cheap pick two – I pick strong and light

Its horses for courses but even removing the luxuries would save less than a kilo and make the camping less pleasant. I am looking to buy na down jacket tho to replace one of the fleeces which will save a bit

Going on the principle of not taking next time anything not used would not reduce it at all – everything was used.

Taking any less in the situation we were in would be compromising cvomfort and safety too much.

rucksac weighs under a kilo – very light for a 70l

I have worked hard to get the kit down to that weight without compromising comfort and safety. No way on earth could i half the weight without doing so. Even compromising a bit on the comfort would save under a kilo

Even tarp and bivvy bags for two would not save much weight – expecially as warmer sleeping bags would be needed

We actually weighed the bags as we set off and on treturn once we had eaten all the food – I think like bike weights people often totally underestimate the weight of stuff they take

Nah. Folk that are serious about cutting weight tend to be quite anal about weighing stuff and knowing what can be cut/bettered. My last overnighter, I weighed my complete kit (including bike) for the first time – not something I’d done before. Total weight was 23kg. That was food, water (1.5L), spare clothes plus all sleeping/cooking kit, tools, camera, phone, batteries etc. Hell, I even had a pair of binoculars with me 🙂 Of course, I’d have wanted more food for another couple of nights out but that’s about it.

some of the weights folk claim are simply not believeable ( knowing your bikes are nice and light I do believe your 23kilo inc bike tho – that will be around 10 kilo of kit?

I am serious about cutting weight down ands weigh everything

the 13 kilo included a litre of water and a 300g pair of binos and two trekking poles, small camera and a phone and a map and was weighed with most of my clothes in the bag as it was nice and warm when we set off

the tent i saw blow down was a terranova laser Stupid wire pegs didn’t work

there is no way on earth I could save half that weight without making it so uncomfy I would have to reatreat into my sleeping bag early and / or compromising safety too much for the sort of trip we were doing

Less. The bike has 3″ tyres and 45mm rims 🙂

I’m with scotroutes on this – like ajf I’m coming from the perspective of doing MMs and Polaris – I’ve finished fairly high up in both. I’ve done an overnight with a 25L pack, when a significant amount of the space inside was filled with bubble wrap (lighter than any normal sleeping mat, and fine for a couple of nights). I’m not quite sure now what all mine weighed, but weights being quoted certainly are believable – I think I’ve been under 5kg. My tent is lighter and more compact even than a tn Laser, but I have slept in it in some pretty wild weather. All sorts of ways to save lots of weight – for example people seem to feel the need to carry a lot of weight in cooking equipment, when my tin can chimney effect solid fuel stove actually works just as well.

I’m afraid to say tj that it just looks like you’re old school! Fair enough, carry what you like or think you need and have fun in the hills but there are other ways. Here’s my thoughts on your kit list:

200g seat and a 300g closed cell foam footprint-500g right there.

A full change of clothes incase of getting soaked- Just put wet stuff on in the morning and keep moving! Maybe save a kilo?

Clean shirt, underpants and socks for each day.- Embrace the stink. 4 days, one change of socks,save another kilo.

kindle- luxury! Print some reading material out and wipe your arse with it when finished!

full set of robust waterproofs-Maybe half a kilo to be saved here by going lighter.

silk liner-no need.

shit shovel-There are other zero weight ways to safely shit in the outdoors. Half a kilo?

300g pair of binos-Luxury.

small camera and a phone-do you need both?

big thick wooly hat-light fleece hat?

jetboil stove-Heavy!

Taking any less in the situation we were in would be compromising comfort and safety too much.

A lot of what I’ve mentioned above are unnecessary items and all of that stuff could be left behind or changed without compromising safety at all. And yes, I am talking about remote areas.

Just because you use it doesn’t make it necessary, I often ‘use’ significant amounts of whisky on a camping trip but I wouldn’t say it’s necessary!

Clean shirt, underpants and socks for each day.

One of each for camp, it’s not a fashion parade!

Two fleeces?

As Colin says, you get quite anal about weights 🙄 I’ve a spreadsheet with the weights of all my kit. Each item’s weight is rounded up to the nearest 5g after I’ve made any modifications that I want.

For the JennRide this weekend I will have under 5Kg of kit, not including water (750ml bottle) or food which will be about another Kilo. There’ll be kit (like a 20,000mAh power bank battery) that I won’t use as it’s a practice ride for next week’s HT550 and I’m taking the same kit – waterproofs will wait until the day before depending on the forecast. So, yes it’s “race” mode kit but even swapping out all the ultra-light stuff for more reasonably priced kit (silnylon rather than Cuben fibre tarp, Exped Synmat rather than Klymit X-Frame, etc.) will add less than a kilo. There’s no cookset but even my heavy canister gas one only weighs 250g including the gas cylinder! The weight includes phone and SPOT tracking device, can’t remember if it includes camera, assume not.

Food for a multi day trip with no chance of restocking will add to the weight but even using the old army calculation of 1Kg per man per day, a four day trip is still going to leave me under 10Kg

Edit: I went on a climbing expedition to the Himalaya, we had a competition to see who could wear the same underpants for the longest. I lost, after 60 days they fell apart!

Klymit X-Frame

Do they actually work ok?

They are fine for summer but there’s no insulation in them so once the temperature gets close to freezing you are better off with a mat like the Exped or NeoAir. Think of them as a super light Lilo. They do pack up very small though. If I’m in touring mode rather than racing I’ll take the Exped – another 150g heavier but …

I haven’t seen it linked here yet but TLS

Edit: TJ, I’ve had a Wild Country Super Nova tent get destroyed in a Scottish Gale (insurance paid up eventually) but also seen a Go Outdoors big frame tent stand up to a Hebridean storm for several days. I’ve seen two identical tents next to one another – one gets flattened but the other’s fine: a gust of wind hitting a boulder 50 metres away with the wind at a particular direction and strength or some such random collision of circumstances.

I had one of the short Klymit mats. Atrocious. Unless you have the pump you can’t get enough air in. If you turn at all you feel the ground through the gaps.

I forgot the sigg bottle of whisky! Best part of a kilo.

Spin – you may disagree but to me going for 4 days without being near a road means enough spare clothes so that if you get soaked then you don’t get hypothermia. I have had folk on expeditions get hypothermia and its not nice. The fleeces are essential – its cold at night high up this time of year. I hate being cold and I don’t want to have to retreat into my sleeping bag the moment we stop moving. We go away every year at this time and last year I was in bed with all my clothes on inc two fleeces Shit shovel – essential. Read the guidance. digging in shit is the best way unless you carry it out. anything else is antisocial

the footprint – is only 100G extra – as I am not pitching my expensive tent on heather without one and a lightweight material one weighs 200g

Yes there is around a kilo and a half of luxuries there. Even remove them and make the camp much less pleasant I am still going to be nowhere near 6 kilos

Silk liner – essential – adds warmth to the sleeping bag. cleans socks and pants each day – essential – I was walking don’t forget and don’t want blisters / sweat chaffing

Sorry dude – I simply disagree with you. I also as above simply do not believe the weights some folk claim. I included everything including 2 walking poles – thats 500g. Phone is for emergancies only – so in the bag turned off. Hence a camera as well

Jetboil – cooking for two remember. 2 cans of fuel incase one leaks – one 100g one 250.

You say your stove is only 250 g – Including pots big enough for two?

the hat and gloves are fleece – full on winter mountainering kit.

I thaver thought long and hard about the kit I carry and yes a kilo or more of luxuries in there but Its supposed to be fun. Everyting in there was used at some point

Ditch the whiskey, kindle, camera, chair and use a flimsy footprint would take me down to around 10 kg

Sorry dude – I simply disagree with you. I also as above simply do not believe the weights some folk claim.

No worries, I never expected? you to agree with someone else on this forum! Nevertheless, I’m not compromising on safety in the hills and the weights people are quoting are totally achievable.

Sounds like you’re stuck in a bit of a ‘I’ve always done it this way’ rut?

Think of them as a super light Lilo

Didn’t realise till now that they’re meant to go inside your bag. Does that lead to condensation on the underside of the bag?

I use a balloon bed for MMs and they’re surprisingly comfortable.

Aye – I agree acehivable but at the cost of comfort and / or safety . What are you doing with your shit if not digging it in? Carrying it out again? anything else is antisocial and against the access code and I have a 85g shovel

Next week we are going away for 12 days unsupported – whats feasible for a single night when racing with an easy route out if it all goes wrong is not for multiple nights with no easy escape route and planned camps on the tops of mountains where snow may well be on the ground and frost is possible

I am not stuck in a rut at all. Much new kit over the last few years. Much thought into weight saving. I also carry a chunk more than half the kit.