What is a truly waterproof tent???

Skies properly opened up this morning at 6am and our current tent gave up the water resistant ghost!! Seen the thread below re family tents but what am i looking for when it comes to properly waterproof tents??
Cheers

A decent hydrostatic head which tells you how waterproof the tent is minimum really would be 3000mm many cheap family ones are only 1500 to 2000mm .Really good ones are 5000mm but these cost a lot more

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/hi-gear-atakama-5-5-berth-family-tent-p143499

These are 60 quid tomorrow looks good for the money .I hope it is as we are getting one!!

Thanks ed, reckon we were in the range of 20mm of hydrostatic head this morning ha ha but boy did it rain! The tents been fine in the past but it was put to a proper test this morning and failed! Looks like we're going to get thoroughly into this so dont mind investing a bit. So is 3000mm ok or go more?

Why not just reproof it?

Just spent 2 days in that tent in the dales. Absolutely fantastic for the money. It rained and we stayed dry too! Loads of space too. We bought ours last weekend. missed out on the 20% off offer they had on though 🙁

If you are really into camping then a few hundred quid will buy you a really high quality tent that will stand up to anything .Many of the cheaper family ones are aimed at summer low altitude camping

http://www.thetentteam.co.uk/product/29439/force-ten-sentinel-500.html

This would be the extreme opposite in terms of cost and performance to your summer holiday tent

gave up the ghost wrightyson, or ran with condensation? If it's a nylon tent and all sealed up with a family inside in bad weather it can seem as if it's leaking like a sieve. How big a family? I had an old Bukta tent destroyed at the Lake District Polaris a year back and replaced it with a Vango Force 10 (mk4) It's been a revelation, the outer cotton completely waterproofs the inner and it's unbelievably quiet even in torrential rain. And for any naysayers, these tents have been standard base camp equipment on Everest for a long long time.

just to add to my previous post, here's a random pick from any number of comments about old school Vango

'David Newbert, Sheffield responded : I don;t think i can add any more about this piece of kit thats already been said before. My parents bought it it for me in 1976, and its been to all 4 points of the compass in the british isles and NEVER let me down. Being made of cotton means you NEVER suffer any form of condensation.Thre,s loads of space for 2 with the mk4. It may be heavier than the new tents around but MY GOD its good in bad weather. I,ve been the subject of a few jokes in the past,because it looks ( old style) but i was the only one laughing 8yrs ago in Scotland when 80mph gusts flattened 12 other tents around us. A tent has to be able to perform 3 vital roles, KEEP YOU TOTALLY DRY, KEEP YOU WARM, TO WITHSTAND GALE FORCE WINDS AND DRIVING RAIN. Well this baby does it with ease. If its was good enough for CHRIS BONNINGTON and EVEREST and SEVERAL others, then its good enough for me, ENOUGH SAID. (2008-03-16)'

I have used a force 10 ,old school but as you say very good

Any non-cheapo-crappy tent should be waterproof enough if you pitch it right so it's not all saggy.

Don't confuse condensation getting shaken or rubbed onto your kit for actual leakage tho.

Vango force 10? HAHAHAHA! Crappest tent I ever ever slept in. Leaked like a drain, was tiny for the stated number of berths, weighs a ton, crap design so there was no sitting/shoulder room, and costs a bomb. The only advantage they have is that they last for many many years, which is great if you are an outdoor centre or something, not if you are a normal camper.

You really carry a wet sack of canvas around a Polaris? 😯

80mph winds is nothing for a properly pitched modern tent by the way – and that old 'if it was good enough for some old geezer it's good enough for me' is complete tosh. Does Chris Bonnington use all that old skool gear now? No. At least he wasn't when I saw him on telly a few years ago. Climbing of course, not camping.

well Molgrips, the Lake District Polaris was a base camp event so I'll ignore the rest of your ignorance,

Wild Country Homestead 5 (or 7).

Not cheap, but big and strong and capable of taking a storm.

dad bought me a 3 man force 10, mainly to get me out of the family tent, i camped through hurricane charlie in it and it's been drowned twice and reproofed once.

It's a little heavy for carrying but apart from that it's never let me down and given succor to a few of my mates, great for use as a base.

No it wasn't condensation, she was just leaking big time. It's a Leben one, and think it's meant for fairish weather! It was the seams that failed! Had a look at some of the vango ones earlier because of the other thread and they seem the way forward! Don't get me wrong if it's forecast for Shyte weather we wouldn't bother going but as was this morning you never can tell in blighty!

the Lake District Polaris was a base camp

There have been lots of Lakes Polarises, many of them not base camp events 🙂

And I'm not ignorant, I've stayed in lots of tents and the Force 10 was the worst of all, in which I got the wettest. It was proper Alpine summer rain, mind. It was also the tent in which I was least comfortable. And it was one of the most expensive.

I'd never buy one based on the above experience.

Oh but I did recently buy a 4 man vestibuled Vango tent because I thought they had a good rep – but it was rubbish as well. Couldn't get it pitched without loads of flappy slack bits despite coming with about 300 pegs; the whole tension of the front section went across one of the doors, so when you opened it it all went floppy and you couldn't zip it back up again; and bits fell off it cos it wasn't actually made very well; and it was generally wobbly and hard to handle.

Coleman weathermaster. Been in torrential rain and dry as a bone

if you'd read my post instead of screaming out loud and all but calling me a lier molgrips you might have picked up on one or two points…. 'I had an old Bukta tent destroyed at the Lake District Polaris a year back and replaced it with a Vango Force 10'…. the last Polaris in the lakes was at Grizedale and as it was a base camp event there was no tent carrying involved. And the tent in question at that time was 'an old Bukta tent' The op is looking for a family tent which really does suggest staying put in one place or travelling between sites by car, and Vangos, like any other tent towards the top end of the price range, are superb for that type of camping. You say (well you shout) that you've had bad experiences with Vangos. Well if you say so, but not many others do, especially not the Force 10 range. And you also say that you bought a vestibuled Vango that came with about 300 pegs? Do you not think that you're just the teeniest bit prone to exaggeration? Or maybe you're just not very good at putting tents up? do tell.
Anyway, I'm going out for a bike ride now, I might be some while

You could always just buy some seam sealant, should save you about £392.

Never got on with cotton tents myself, always seemed to cover you in a fine layer of mist whenever it rained hard, despite proofing. Never had a cheapy cheapy nylon tent but I've also never had one of my reasonable nylon tents leak, or flatten, despite force 7/8 gusts and so much rain that I've woken up with ducks paddling in the grass next to the door (thanks capel curig).

How big?

Our Vango Equinox 450 (3000 thingummies) stood up to a near comedy night of non stop monsoon style conditions last week – not a drop of water anywhere in the tent.

Can't go wrong with a mountain hardwear trango. Best tent I've ever had or used and well proven to stand up to any conditions:

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=2037&prod=3417&cat=2057&viewAll=False

Lazlo / Molgrips, calm down lads, you're two tents.

(is that my coat?)

p.s. this is total baloney

80mph winds is nothing for a properly pitched modern tent by the way

.

A person can't stand up in 80mph wind. Most tents won't either.

Lazlo / Molgrips, calm down lads, you're two tents.

Don't get between those Guys – the Stakes are too high.

A person can't stand up in 80mph wind. Most tents won't either.

I think many people over-estimate windspeeds – not too many things survive hurricane force winds.

Lazlo / Molgrips, calm down lads, you're two tents.

🙂

A roll of seam tape and a tin of Fabsil should sort you out.

Cougar, good advice, the forum can get a little bit agitated at times.

Konabunny, I never cease to be amazed at just how witty some posts are

Dorsetknob, as per cougar

thanks lads

glenh, I've got an Ultra Quasar that although it's never let me down, is no fun to be in during a real storm. All you can do is stuff cotton wool in your ears and hope it's stiil there in the morning. I do think that the MH Trango is a better tent than the Quasar because the inner/outer separation is greater and so there's less wind spattered condensation being thrown around, in all other respects they're almost identical.

coffeeking, I quite agree, I have been out in the open during a hurricane, the only thing I could do was crawl to a fold in the ground and hold on to tussock grass till the worst had passed, luckily not very long.

Thanks Edric64 – I've just picked mine up this morning

I've used quite a lot of 2-man tents, mostly of the "mountain" variety – ie not super lightweight and pretty sturdy. We've used a Terra Nova Quasar for a long time.

Then we got children. Some summer race camping in a a super cheap family tent (bought in a hurry) went fine, a weekend in the Lakes in wet and very windy weather did not. Tent binned.

So I went back to "mountain" tents (for want of a better word). We ended up getting a Macpac Hemisphere – 4-man geodesic thingy.

Plenty of room for two adults and one child. We are now four and we haven't tried it that "full" yet. May have to bring in the Quasar as an outlier. Adding an Exped Arc Tarp has made it more useful as a family tent (and is a great thing to have in its own right)

A person can't stand up in 80mph wind

I bet I could. That's about as windy as it gets in the UK I suspect, and I've never been blown over, certainly never had any trouble at all standing up when prepared. 80mph gusts up in the mountains aren't that rare either I don't think. But I could be proved wrong. Although experience tells me this kind of wind is not common during summertime.

As for 'family' tents, I take this to mean something with a bit of living space, and perhaps two sleeping pods or more. A Force 10 would be way way off the mark for that.

EDIT OF EDITS: Well I just did a quick search and Vango don't appear to make the old skool Force 10 any more (like I was talking about), but the name has been recycled for other tents.

So it's all academic 🙂

80mph gusts up in the mountains aren't that rare either I don't think.

Done a fair amount of walking/climbing and never been out in 80mph winds, been out in 50mph winds and was bearly able to walk into it (leaning at 20 degrees or so). The thing is that the wind readings you see on TV are not the actual windspeed you see at floor level. I'm fairly used to measuring/judging windspeed (helps when kitesurfing) and even 40mph winds (reported as 55mph on TV and by nearby annemometer) are getting a bit hairy, doubling that quadruples the force on the person. No ta.

Me and a mate flew a kite (small powerkite) on the Downs in Bristol – absolutely terrifying as the wind suddenly picked up while it was airborne – I got flung into the air and dragged almost onto the road. Winds were later reported as gusting to 65mph…

80mph would knock many people over – that's a force 12 hurricane.

sorry molgrips, but you're wrong, Vango still make the Force10 and, taking into account the inevitable refinements that take place over time, it's the same tent that they've been making for 40 yrs. And, coincidentally, the same tent that I bought last year. Just how old school do you want?
my tent

old skool Force 10

Called a "Force 10 Classic" now, seem to still be around. Goodness, I remember you getting mightily agitated on this subject before. My experience with them is much as laslo's, but I've not had a tent I actually liked in many years. 🙂

I use one of these

3000mm head, pretty light, easy to set up. Used it in wales in a gale with horizontal rain, was dry as a bone.

I love this forum. As usual most of the comments read as bored partially informed people posting to past time.

I have a Hilleberg Akto for sole use, a Macpac Minaret for 'me and another' use, and some Outwell thing for lets-go-car-camping. I'd recommend any of them, because each one is what you pay for and performs as a sane person would expect.

To be honest applying numbers like hydrostatic head is all a bit woolly in the real world. I mean, polythene has a large hydrostatic head but if used as a groundsheet would be wrecked in no time.

A good tent must be measured by umpteen factors, it's up to yourself to prioritize what ones matter to you.

Disclaimer – I am a bored, partially informed person posting to pass time.

When I did my DofE Bronze expedition I carried a Force10. I was only about 4'8" and it pretty much weighed as much as me.

Another vote for a terra nova quasar here. Really impressed with quality of materials, proofing, durability and suitability for lots of different trips. Only a large 2 person though.
Put it another way if i wanted a tent id pick from the terra nova range!