Warning!! old school moan about the Olympic Xc

I am my own example here, I stared riding last year at 17 now 18. XC just isn’t cool, you have DH with massive tail whips and clothes from the likes of troy lee; all supported by awesome films like Follow Me, showing riders fearlessly shredding the gnar.

But XC involves riding up hills a then edging down them on the brakes, where is the fun in that? Plus lycra isn’t cool.

But thanks to the BBC’s great coverage and the organisers of the Olympic events, I was finally shown what XC is really about; speed pure speed all the time, the competitiveness, oh and Fontana is cool.

Mind you though I have always liked sprinting and the odd techy climb so…

What I am trying to say is that XC needs to have much more coverage, and some cool personalities in the sport to inspire the younger generation.

Although most of the younger generation will be inspired by the BMX instead 😕

Not sure where that leaves XC.

same as XC skiing, Speed Skating etc.

There will always be competitors, just it won’t be brits for the large part. Too interested in looking the part and afterall who buys a bike to ride it. I thought the point was sit in the car park having a chat?

When XC was at it’s pinnacle it was pretty much the only form of mountainbike riding around (or it certainly eclipsed other embryonic forms). Over the last 20ish years DH, Freeride, Dirt Jumping, AM have provided great progression and development in terms of the bikes we ride, the trails we ride and how me ride them (some of us anyway). XC, or XC racing at least has remained quite stagnant and has remained a competition largely about who is the fittest bike rider off road.

There’s been no meaningful progression in terms of format and it has left the door open for enduro to replace it as a form of MTB racing that is more closely representative of how most people ride.

There’s been no meaningful progression in terms of format and it has left the door open for enduro.

The format has changed a lot over the years.

As for Enduro, DH, and the like, difficult to sell the emperors new clothes when the rider matters more than the bike, all the talk about wheel sizes is in large part about trying to sell new bikes.

And yes at the top of all cycle sport it is the rider that matters, lower down you can buy skill through the bike, seen it too many times and it usually ends with someone in hospital when they found out how lacking in skill they really are.

the trails we ride and how me ride them (some of us anyway)

some of us, is the key point, the trails i see now and the trails i rode 20+ years ago are the same, the trail centres haven’t really changed. Not much has actually changed, people just seem to think that you need the new bikes to cope, they may make it easier, they may make it faster, but you don’t need them, which if you look at what some of the XC courses are like should be obvious.

But XC involves riding up hills a then edging down them on the brakes

Try letting go of the brakes.

Over the last 20ish years DH, Freeride, Dirt Jumping, AM have provided great progression and development in terms of the bikes we ride, the trails we ride and how me ride them (some of us anyway).

More like over the last 10 years or so, DH, Freeride, Dirt Jumping, AM have been a way to sell ever bigger and crucially more expensive bikes to those with ever more disposable income on the back of a tame media who will flog whatever bike is advertised with the largest budget, and equally crucially, have all become yet more divisions in an already minority branch of an already minority sport.

And none of them are in the Olympics.

I’m not against AM, Freeride, Dirt Jumping and especially not against DH, and I agree that XC has stagnated, but it has stagnated because the ‘Mountain Bike’ market in the UK at least is middle aged, middle class men who play on bikes rather than do a sport.

chakaping – Member

the British ethos of “taking part” rather than “winning”

As demonstrated by our hopeless track and road riders, eh?

oh, sorry i thought the thread title said Olympic XC not track and road…oh, wait

ya dipstick 🙄

this however is the most positive thing i’ve heard on STW for a long time and from an 18yo!

But thanks to the BBC’s great coverage and the organisers of the Olympic events, I was finally shown what XC is really about; speed pure speed all the time, the competitiveness, oh and Fontana is cool.

Not enough XC races because pottering around on long travel bikes is “cooler” than getting into lycra and winning stuff apparently, hence not enough demand for races (I seem to remember in another Olympic thread Sam Hill was touted as being “cooler” than Wiggins which is unfortunately probably right, not to diminish Sam’s achievements which are impressive but I know which one I’d be aspiring to be if I was a kid.) DH works because the easiest way to get to a good DH track is to enter a race.

Iain

More like over the last 10 years or so, DH, Freeride, Dirt Jumping, AM have been a way to sell ever bigger and crucially more expensive bikes to those with ever more disposable income on the back of a tame media who will flog whatever bike is advertised with the largest budget, and equally crucially, have all become yet more divisions in an already minority branch of an already minority sport.

That’s one cynical and jaded way to spin it. The other way is to look at the bikes we have now are incredible machines. A current stumpjumper can be pedalled easily all day long and hammer a downhill track the next, and with conviction. And if you don’t think that represents progression then you need to find some new places to ride.

And none of them are in the Olympics.

Thankfully.

I’m not against AM, Freeride, Dirt Jumping and especially not against DH, and I agree that XC has stagnated, but it has stagnated because the ‘Mountain Bike’ market in the UK at least is middle aged, middle class men who play on bikes rather than do a sport.

I can foresee a massive explosion in Enduro style racing (it’s already happening) which will put the “sport” back into that middle ground and give a sharp focused competitive edge to that segment, and in so doing I think it will leave XC as an even more obscure and isolated off shoot. There will always be people who don’t feel the need to compete though, and they should be allowed to live too.

Iain Gillam

Not enough XC races because pottering around on long travel bikes is “cooler” than getting into lycra and winning stuff apparently

I don’t know how to express it but there is something very wrong with that statement.

That’s one cynical and jaded way to spin it. The other way is to look at the bikes we have now are incredible machines. A current stumpjumper can be pedalled easily all day long and hammer a downhill track the next, and with conviction. And if you don’t think that represents progression then you need to find some new places to ride.

No i have to agree with Crikey on this,

Wasn’t it cannondale that tried to copyright Freeride, and Rockymountain came back with Froride.

As for the second part, i can remember seeing raleigh mustangs being raced with conviction and far more so than most of the current crop. It is the rider not the bike but from a marketing point of view that doesn’t work. As for new places to ride? where? Olympus Mons? there are very few places where bikes haven’t been taken and half the reason why conflict keeps on arising is creating new trails to try and push the new bikes.

I can foresee a massive explosion in Enduro style racing (it’s already happening) which will put the “sport” back into that middle ground and give a sharp focused competitive edge to that segment, and in so doing I think it will leave XC as an even more obscure and isolated off shoot. There will always be people who don’t feel the need to compete though, and they should be allowed to live too.

More likely MTB racing in the UK will disappear, far more riders are on the road than for a long time, road bikes outsell MTBs, making money out of MTB racing is incredibly hard, entry fees reflect this. Another summer like we have just had and i can see there being some serious issues with racing of all categories.

Something to think about, Cyclocross.

I know you think of me as a miserable roadie type, but I started racing in XC mountain biking, and love it still, 25 years on.

The problem with ‘Enduro’ style riding is the same as the trouble with ‘Sportive’ riding on the road; it’s not actually racing.

At best it’s Time trialling, which any true roadie will say with a raised eyebrow, at worst it’s the equivalent of a fun run, where everyone gets a prize…

To raise the status of Mountain biking, we need to do it on a global scale which means doing well at the stuff the rest of the world already does, not trying to big up what we do here.

CBA to read all the above, but GB have some very good young riders coming up…

Wasn’t it cannondale that tried to copyright Freeride, and Rockymountain came back with Froride.

I am pretty sure that was an April fools joke was it not?

As for the second part, i can remember seeing raleigh mustangs being raced with conviction and far more so than most of the current crop.

You take your Mustang, I’ll take my Stumpy and we’ll race down the Fortbill WC DH track. With conviction.

crikey
The problem with ‘Enduro’ style riding is the same as the trouble with ‘Sportive’ riding on the road; it’s not actually racing.
At best it’s Time trialling, which any true roadie will say with a raised eyebrow, at worst it’s the equivalent of a fun run, where everyone gets a prize…

I think if you can beat Joe Barnes, and you’ll have ample opportunity to try, then you are fully entitled to make that statement.

Even though I think your statement is totally wrong, sportives are still massively popular, and getting bigger all the time.

More likely MTB racing in the UK will disappear, far more riders are on the road than for a long time, road bikes outsell MTBs, making money out of MTB racing is incredibly hard, entry fees reflect this. Another summer like we have just had and i can see there being some serious issues with racing of all categories.

Except Enduro events which are often sold out…300+ entries per event, with many organisers in good health. Road will always out sell MTB because it crosses over to commuter/hybrid etc. Most buyers are now informed enough to know that an MTB is not a viable tool for commuting, and a flat bar road/road/touring/audax/cross bike is. But there will always be a market, a thriving market for mtb.

Thinking back to the early days, the parts of the courses that were both fun for the riders and competitors alike were the likes of the bombhole at Malvern Hills Challenge / Classic, the steep chute down to Snailbeach at Eastridge etc. Unfortunately (and why traditional XC will always suck) the races are always won on boring fireroad climbs. I’m pretty out of touch but if XC took on more of a cyclocross format (in terms of duration) and put more emphasis on cool trail features then it’d be way more desirable. Hell, you could ride a light rigid singlespeed with a shortish stem and risers, just power your way up the climbs as they’d only be a couple of minutes long but then have a decent handling bike for hitting jumps, drops, berms etc. I know it will never happen, as the XC mentality is all about going up fireroads quickly, or riding around a muddy field (STILL! after 25 years!! FFS!!!), but XC could be waaaaay more exciting.

..and not to depress you, but of the 5 or so guys I know who raced downhill, all 5 have quit because of cost and or injury and 4 of them are now riding road bikes.

I’m not against AM, Freeride, Dirt Jumping and especially not against DH, and I agree that XC has stagnated, but it has stagnated because the ‘Mountain Bike’ market in the UK at least is middle aged, middle class men who play on bikes rather than do a sport.

So what exactly should us middle aged men be doing with our spare time and money when we’ve hung up our football/rugby boots etc?
MTB trail riding offers exercise,thrills,spills, danger,tests your physical and mental limits,your bottle, gets you out in the wilds,up and down mountains ,understanding bikes,machinery,technology etc etc.It even gives you a forum to talk about this stuff too
If XC isn’t attracting youngsters into the sport then that’s hardly the fault of middle aged men falling off their bikes on Spooky Wood.

I am pretty sure that was an April fools joke was it not?

No serious,

You take your Mustang, I’ll take my Stumpy and we’ll race down the Fortbill WC DH track. With conviction.

put schurter on the mustang.

It is about the rider not the bike and that is how it should be.

as the XC mentality is all about going up fireroads quickly

You mean being FIT!!!!!

Shock horror a bike sport where fitness matters, well i never…

You mean being FIT!!!!!

Shock horror a bike sport where fitness matters, well i never…

Exactly, so why not just ride road?

So what exactly should us middle aged men be doing with our spare time and money when we’ve hung up our football/rugby boots etc?
MTB trail riding offers exercise,thrills,spills, danger,tests your physical and mental limits,your bottle, gets you out in the wilds,up and down mountains ,understanding bikes,machinery,technology etc etc.It even gives you a forum to talk about this stuff too
If XC isn’t attracting youngsters into the sport then that’s hardly the fault of middle aged men falling off their bikes on Spooky Wood.

In brief, if there was a decent XC scene, you wouldn’t be playing football.

MTB trail riding offers exercise,thrills,spills, danger,tests your physical and mental limits,your bottle, gets you out in the wilds,up and down mountains ,understanding bikes,machinery,technology etc etc.

It offers a limited amount of exercise.
Danger? Give over, you’re in more danger driving to the trail.
If messing about on an MTB tests your physical and mental limits, both are set quite low.
Gets you out in the wilds? What wilds? You ride on paths and trails that have either been there for hundreds of years or have been made especially for you.

I’m out.

put schurter on the mustang.

Well then we have a race.

It offers a limited amount of exercise.
Danger? Give over, you’re in more danger driving to the trail.
If messing about on an MTB tests your physical and mental limits, both are set quite low.
Gets you out in the wilds? What wilds? You ride on paths and trails that have either been there for hundreds of years or have been made especially for you.

Try going out for 4-6 hours, racing all the climbs and really pinning all the descents, many of which are dh race tracks on a 120mm bike. It’s your perception of what mountainbiking can be that appears to set quite low.

Exactly, so why not just ride road?

And why not off road.

or riding around a muddy field (STILL! after 25 years!! FFS!!!), but XC could be waaaaay more exciting.

Yes, and so could be marathon running.
If all the competitors were given machines guns and gained bonus point for each pigeon they shot on route, and had to fight a shark with a laser and then eat 20 dunkin doughnuts whilst break dancing.
Obviously it wouldn’t be marathon running, but it would be waaaay more exciting.

Or to take XC to the other extreme, this is proper XC racing:

Homepage2020Regular

But oh nose it has technical features and the roots might break my 18lb carbon mincing machine!

Or to take XC to the other extreme, this is proper XC racing:

NO XC racing is clearly understood.

none of these are XC races.

http://www.salzkammergut-trophy.at
http://www.grand-raid-cristalp.ch
http://www.bike-transalp.de/news/%5B/url%5D

but each is far more interesting to me than enduro racing in the UK.

We seem to veering towards that argument we had ages ago.
Lets change the the whole UK XC scene so anyone can just pop along and do it. I can see the Golds pouring in.

And they talk about ignorant roadies, so if I want to race and keep fit I it’s best if hand back my MTB to the men and mince off on my road bike.
Class.

NO XC racing is clearly understood.

And this is why it’s dying. People just don’t want to do it!

And this is why it’s dying. People just don’t want to do it!

some people do, some people don’t

MTB events as a whole are down in the UK.

Yes, and so could be marathon running.
If all the competitors were given machines guns and gained bonus point for each pigeon they shot on route, and had to fight a shark with a laser and then eat 20 dunkin doughnuts whilst break dancing.
Obviously it wouldn’t be marathon running, but it would be waaaay more exciting.

Marathon running is a few hundred years old is it not? Maybe a few thousand. I’m sure it’s evolved somewhat in that time to what happened in London this morning. Just look at how the TDF has changed over the decades to what we see now. They didn’t arrive fully formed. XC is still in it’s infancy. There is still potential for progression. I really feel that whilst it should obviously necessitate massive fitness to win, bike handling should be as important. IE it should be a sport that someone with a high level of road fitness, but no off road skill should never be able to win or rank heavily.

Shouldering the bike and walking down technical features should never be a valid competitive option and racing round fields should never, ever be considered anything more than cyclocross.

Unfortunately, we’re no longer in the position where the UK can dictate the rules of sports to the rest of the world. XC racing is what it is. As a country we can either do it the same way as everyone else or choose not to bother.

MTB is now just a big money making machine.

Theres far to much focus on **** bling components and all that shite.

It pisses me off.

You get all these pro riders (freeriders and downhillers mainly) whining on about their new best disc brakes or fork tuning and telling you how good this and that is. And its bloody boring.

I dont watch many of the road racing/grand tours stuff on TV. But one thing Ive never seen them do is whine on about bike components and bike bling and all that. Their bikes are just tools to get the job done.

I dont really know what my point is.

They didn’t arrive fully formed. XC is still in it’s infancy

and it has evolved, have a look at early Grundigs and the current World Cup.

IE it should be a sport that someone with a high level of road fitness, but no off road skill should never win

I guess you have never seen how fit AND skillful good roadies are?

Shouldering the bike and walking down technical features should never be a valid competitive option and racing round fields should never be considered.

XC the clue is in the name cross country, it is a race, ie get from A to B as fast as possible.

In the land of middle aged IT mtb riders i know it is hard to understand but if the UK Can’t win at XC races that doesn’t mean the races are wrong, it means the UK riders are. Sounds a bit like the US and the World series baseball…..

mrmo

I guess you have never seen how fit AND skillful good roadies are?

I know several former national champs. I am not overly impressed by their skill. Should I be?

XC the clue is in the name cross country, it is a race, ie get from A to B as fast as possible.

In the land of middle aged IT mtb riders i know it is hard to understand but if the UK Can’t win at XC races that doesn’t mean the races are wrong, it means the UK riders are. Sounds a bit like the US and the World series baseball…..

I don’t know what an IT MTB rider is, and I’m not quite middle aged, but I have raced XC, DH and Enduro. Just because XC is in the Olympics doesn’t mean it can’t be improved, doesn’t mean it can’t evolve, doesn’t mean it cant become something completely abstract and irrelevant if left unchecked.

I’m going to ignore your condescending tone anyway. I’m not interested in the UK winning or not winning, I’m talking about the sport in general. It needs a boot up the arse overall.

My reference to shouldering was, if you can think outside your wee box for a second, a point that tracks could be designed to negate or eliminate this aspect, or at least render it uncompetitive, thus giving some advantage to bike handlers.

I’m going to ignore your condescending tone. I’m not interested in the UK winning or not winning, I’m talking about the sport in general. It needs a boot up the arse overall.

Ignore the tone, point stands XC racing is what it is, that the UK sucks at it isn’t the swiss or the czechs problem. If you want XC racers to win on the world stage accept it is what it is, get fit and race. If your interested in pony treking on bikes, on Enduro so be it, end of the day the winners will always be fit. it is racing after all. If you think that skill can ever compensate for being a fat knacker at the top end of the sport, in fact almost any sport, you are sadly deluding yourself.

My reference to shouldering was, if you can think outside your wee box for a second, a point that tracks could be designed to negate or eliminate this aspect, or at least render it uncompetitive, thus giving some advantage to bike handlers.

you have to finish to win. if you want to eliminate shouldering your going to have to look at roads, there will always be a time when shouldering is quicker, if it means throwing a bike over your shoulder to run past people so be it. Singletrack courses mean you can’t overtake which means you have to be imaginative about getting past people.

muddyfunster, you could invent another sport?
XC is XC simple as that, you don’t like aspects of it so no need to bother with it. I liked boxing in the Army but could never accept being hit by the other bloke so I got out. I don’t even watch boxing anymore, not a bit interested.
XC exists because some people like me love it, I love to chase the other bloke over a mildly annoying course. And whilst I’m in awe of downhillers, freeriders and the like I’ve never ever even wanted to have a go or take part myself. And more to the point I don’t want to change the whole face of that side of mountain biking to suit me.

Just one final thought, the UCI are clear that rightly or wrongly cycle sport is about the rider not the bike, that all forms of sport should be accessible. Make a course that demands 180mm of travel to be competitive how is that accessible?

For all its faults XC as it is allows anyone to come along and race, the bike is not the limiting factor, you are.

Just one final thought, the UCI are clear that rightly or wrongly cycle sport is about the rider not the bike, that all forms of sport should be accessible. Make a course that demands 180mm of travel to be competitive how is that accessible?

For all its faults XC as it is allows anyone to come along and race, the bike is not the limiting factor, you are.

I’m not really enjoying this anymore, but if you can’t imagine any room for improvement then so be it.

And just to clarify, since my post was deleted I am anything but a fat knacker.

For all its faults XC as it is allows anyone to come along and race, the bike is not the limiting factor, you are.

Indeed, there was a kid on a cheap mountain bike wearing his trainers that completed the XC race in Milton Keynes Friday. Tough course as well.

For all its faults XC as it is allows anyone to come along and race, the bike is not the limiting factor, you are.

oldgit

Indeed, there was a kid on a cheap mountain bike wearing his trainers that completed the XC race in Milton Keynes Friday. Tough course as well.

And yet the top guys are on £2000 frames, with £2000 wheels, £1000 drive trains and £500 tyres so they don’t loose a second on the climbs and across the flat. No, not about the bike. Level playing field.

Why are people blaming BC. Anyone who works for BC or knows people who work in the talent team/go-ride areas will know things are changing but success doesn’t happen overnight. It will start with school kids, coaches and funding not some middle management weekend warrior who thinks Lycra is ‘jey’
I wouldn’t be too quick to diss the road/track either without their success there is no funding for MTB.
A lot of MTBers have a problem with ‘xc’ though which doesn’t help.