And yet the top guys are on £2000 free frames, with £2000[b] free[/b] wheels, £1000 free drive trains and £500[b] free[/b] tyres

Talking of old skool, Why did no one ride the faster inside (almost straight) line to the right over the rocks at the end of that weird disjointed longer rock garden (can you even call it that?) instead of going wide left for the berm?

Interesting debate. I think there’s a mix of factors. One is definitely time. To do an XC race requires packing up the car, driving to the venue (sometimes 2hrs eah way), pre-race practice, race, clean up, pack car, drive home (or sometimes even camping over). In my London based club there used to be a good core of riders who’d do that week in week out (SAMS, NPS and various other lower key XC events like the old Whipstakes Farm Series). Most of the guys were mid 20’s, either single or living with girlfriend.

Fast forward 10 years and everyone was married, kids, more demanding/higher profile jobs etc and they no longer had the time to take a whole day or weekend away every week so most drifted into road racing – head out early doors to somewhere local, do a 3hr race, home in time for lunch. The exception was events like Mayhem where we could still get a team together for a weekend away but that was it. The club MTB scene had crashed and it was the same for other clubs locally and there weren’t the new riders coming in (or if there were, all the older riders would be doing road so no-one could give the younger guys a lift to MTB races).

And yet the top guys are on free frames, with free wheels,free drive trains and free tyres

That’s what they would cost young johnny beginner to get a level playing field – thousands. So the fact that they are free to sponsored riders is irrelevant. Other people are making the point that it’s egalitarian and not in the least bit about the bike. It’s no more, or no less about the bike than dh.

The longest running MTB XC series in the world is here in the UK. The Friday night summer series in the East Midlands. It consists of around 15 one hour long rounds over the area. There are some properly quick youngsters in the series. But MTB is still very much a niche sport in this country. TBH I don’t mind though .

Muddyfunster – Don’t be silly, the top 3 today could have gained enough UCI points to compete at WC level turning up to nationals with £500 bikes.
if johnny beginner couldn’t also manage that he’d be a no hoper at the Olympics anyway.
the top guys (who were actually in with a shout) were all riding equipment of similar cost/standard, whether they bought them or were given them is irrelevant. 😉

Why did no one ride the faster inside (almost straight) line to the right over the rocks

If this is right as you look at them (left to the rider), it was because riders struggled to make the turn after the rocks. Saw it countless times with the Women’s race. the berm with jump was the faster line.

That’s what they would cost young johnny beginner to get a level playing field – thousands. So the fact that they are free to sponsored riders is irrelevant. Other people are making the point that it’s egalitarian and not in the least bit about the bike. It’s no more, or no less about the bike than dh.

The bike I race cost me £50, a 2004 hardtail. The best bike in the world might give me a few seconds.
Can’t you accept XC, and stop trying to change it or compare it to other sports. I just can’t see how it’ll help.

Edit; I bought two Racing Ralphs so it ‘s now worth double that.

t offers a limited amount of exercise.
Danger? Give over, you’re in more danger driving to the trail.
If messing about on an MTB tests your physical and mental limits, both are set quite low.
Gets you out in the wilds? What wilds? You ride on paths and trails that have either been there for hundreds of years or have been made especially for you.

I’m out.

crikey
Don’t judge everyone by your own apparently lame standards.

How many times are you going to edit that nick?

No. DJ. I meant right and left from the riders perspective.
no jump in the berm.
the section I’m talking about had no jump in the berm and staying left through one very short section of rock would have made it practically a straight line.

The other thing is the whole attitude shift that’s happened in MTB in the last 15 years.

XC used to be the bread and butter of MTBing – hill climbs were a regular feature of events, XC courses were great to race; long, technical, tough (but unbelievably dull to watch and impossible to televise). The now defunct magazine Mountain Biker International concentrated almost exclusively on the XC race scene. It was social, fun stuff.

But somehow, the magazines and industry have turned the sport on it’s head – XC is no longer “cool”, uphills are something that you “winch” or “grind” up (to use magazine speak) and it’s all about the downhill, the gnarr factor. Anything that goes uphill is now the unfortunate flipside of a good descent.

I think some of the comments above illustrate the perception of a lot of MTBers that XC requires a £5000 bike, lycra, no social life and hours spent on a road bike. At World Cup level, maybe but grass roots XC should be as accessible as cyclocross is.

MTBcapitalism is now just a big money making machine.

Just the once crikey because the quote marks didn’t come out right 🙂
Edit
Anyway I thought you were out

the section I’m talking about had no jump in the berm and staying left through one very short section of rock would have made it practically a straight line.

The incoming and outgoing lines didn’t match up with it though. Not at speed anyway. Although it looked like a wide gravel path, there were in fact definite singletrack lines through it all where the gravel had been compacted. Come out of that and onto the loose stuff and wheelspin/slide was inevitable.

Why are people blaming BC. Anyone who works for BC or knows people who work in the talent team/go-ride areas will know things are changing but success doesn’t happen overnight. It will start with school kids, coaches and funding not some middle management weekend warrior who thinks Lycra is ‘jey’
I wouldn’t be too quick to diss the road/track either without their success there is no funding for MTB.
A lot of MTBers have a problem with ‘xc’ though which doesn’t help.

Yep this is happening, early days though. Kids do seem to love XC so it would be great to see more venues.

A lot of MTBers have a problem with ‘xc’ though which doesn’t help

Only in mountain biking 😥 they seem to have watched it though?

😀

Who would have thought that messing about on bikes would cause so much fuss…

Anyway, closing ceremony. I hope Geri Halliwell has got that dress on.

That’s what they would cost young johnny beginner to get a level playing field – thousands.

sorry but that is such a stupid point. A novice can race and be competitive on a relatively cheap bike in their category. Comparing what pros use with what sport cat racers use is irrelevant.

How many cat 4 roadies turn up on dura-ace equipped dogmas?
How many fun cat racers turn up on XTR equipped FSR’s?

some might but in neither case does it really help you win.

I do wonder what the equipment entry level is for DH racing.

I agree with crazy-legs the mags and bike industry have made xc racing look lame and not covering it while trying to promote how cool DH/free riding is, a bit like imo what they are doing with 29er over 26″ wheels.

Bloody Olympics!
I’ll be glad when it’s all over and the usual thread nonsense returns.

I do wonder what the equipment entry level is for DH racing.

Any mountainbike and a full face helmet, protective equipment requirement changes from series to series (and even country)
There’d be nothing stopping you racing a £100 mtb and wearing a fifteen quid helmet.

GW serious question, novice level is it reasonable to do well, win without spending money? beyond the obvious helmet, etc.

From where i sit i see the entry equipment hurdle being pretty high. i don’t see many on cheap hard tails, I know back in the day steve peat was winning on a hard tail but that was then not now, just looking at the coverage etc it suggests Full suspension bikes, lots of pads etc.

a reliable source told me it was an embarrassment to him as a mountainbiker. everyone seems to be moaning that all the strongest riders head for the road and track. surely that should tell you something? the courses are so tame any of of the top road guys and girls could move over and dominate? no?

Reading this thread reminds me of a Daily Mail story, lots of folk with a perception of something, but few who have actually any experience of it…

And as with most things, its skill, fits and dedication that wins – the equipment (as long as too a decent standard) is secondary. Many times I’ve been lapped by an Elite rider on an old 80mm v-brake HT.

a reliable source told me it was an embarrassment to him as a mountainbiker. everyone seems to be moaning that all the strongest riders head for the road and track. surely that should tell you something? the courses are so tame any of of the top road guys and girls could move over and dominate? no?

Then your source is very sad, XC is XC is XC, if you want to win at the top level you will be fit and you will be strong. Evans made the move from XC to road Martinez tried and to be fair failed to cut it. Going back a bit I believe that JMc was doing trials for the Track squad, so does that mean Downhill is too easy as well?

how much skill exactly?

Anyway, closing ceremony

Wondered what it was like to be on acid.

Mountain biking still has a big image problem with the young. Most kids see mountain biking as downhill, they are less aware that XC is where it’s at. Trying to get kids involved in the sport is critical, the young need to stal the sport back from fat middle aged IT guys with Audis.

A better racing scene for the young and more access to half decent bikes, not £100 tescos specials.

24hr racing killed xc racing in the UK.

used to be an XC race was a weekend out with mates with bikes. 24hr racing came along was a new challange, meant you could have that day out, a bbq, some beers etc etc.

XC racing has been decimated, can’t think of an xc race where you can camp over after (anyone?) anymore, so XC has been left for the more serious competitors.

24hr racing killed xc racing in the UK.

and i think that this summer will have killed 24hr racing. that and the last couple where the weather hasn’t been much better!

XC racing has been decimated, can’t think of an xc race where you can camp over after (anyone?) anymore, so XC has been left for the more serious competitors.

To be fair i don’t care about that, give me races on decent courses that aren’t going to break my bike because of the weather and that are near home so i can do some other things at the weekend and i’ll be happy.

Trying to get kids involved in the sport is critical, the young need to stal the sport back from fat middle aged IT guys with Audis.

That’s incredibly ageist(wheres TJ when you need him)
Why? Seriously.
Surely sport is about wider participation for all age groups.Nothing wrong with getting kids involved in all sports but lets face it most competitive sports are the almost exclusive preserve of the young.No middle aged folk training for the 100 metres at my local athletics club :-).Cycling in all its forms bucks that trend by having vets and super vets categories as does running and probably a few other sports but they are the exception.

what he ^ said.

without a huge government funded program, elite athletes/riders will only be found by getting loads of people* on bikes, and in races.

*and that means everyone, men and women, old and young, fat and thin.

if you want a race for the young hopefulls, you also need a race for the old giffers, if only so the race can make some money back…

Cycling in all its forms bucks that trend by having vets and super vets categories as does running and probably a few other sports but they are the exception.

maybe because in the end middle aged racers don’t win elite cat races on a world stage. If you want to get olympic medals, if you want a world champion your looking at riders in there twenties and early thirties as a general rule. To do this you need to find teenagers and riders just entering there twenties to give them the time and guidance to get to the top.

One of the saddest things for me was seeing Malcolm Elliot still being competitive on the road, he is good but the competition should have been far better than they were.

That older races can compete is good don’t get me wrong, but it doesn’t get you medals, it doesn’t get money from the government, etc.

Aye, Malcolm Elliot made UK cycling look very poor, good as he was…

Just back reading this thread, and had another thought.

Whilst the road racing scene has had its ups and downs, it has always had a strongish club structure where races were organised by clubs and so racing could always be done for 5 to 10 pounds (prices of about 10-15 years ago).

Mountain biking races were often put on by individuals in our area and would cost about 20-25 pounds to enter. Prizes were not so good either. So it cost a lot to race as a kid or youth – on top of a bike and replacing worn/broken bits and travel etc.

Perhaps road clubs could be the model for mtb? Perhaps, but I think the reason a lot of mtbers do it is to get away from things, out in the country, and not get tied up with meetings etc that are perceived as what goes on in clubs.

Also on the subject of British Cycling, how many mtbers are members? How many really look at what they are doing and don’t just say ‘bloody track and road orientated blazer wearing idiots…’ I bet fewer than 10 percent of the membership are mtbers as opposed to roadies or roadies who dabble on the mtb. If half the membership were mtbers, perhaps there would be a greater effort towards mtbing

and 1 more thing – perhaps instead of sitting on our arses moaning, we should get racing, or organising races.

We don’t have enough riders who ride UCI World Cup XC to get enough points to qualify for the Olympics. Ironically, of our two best XC riders, Oli Beckinsale earnt the UCI points which allowed Liam to ride….

Eh? Oli broke his leg and has been out for a year!
UCI points were gained by lots of British riders, myself included and almost all of them by traveling overseas without any funding by BC.

British Cycling were quite happy to only have one male and one female representing us at the Olympics. We could easily have had 2 had they provided some funding for people to travel and race overseas. Or possibly get some more UCI races in the UK.

mtbmatt, I think that BC are caught though, medals equals money, how many XC racers does the UK have who realistically could win a Medal in London.

How much would they need to invest to get an mtb medal, when there are far more track medals available.

It is a catch 22, you need role models to get the winners, but you need money to get the winners.

The question i asked earlier, what do the swiss do?

Hoarde Nazi gold?

honestly xc is a bit dull,
compare watching todays race- 2 very dull commentators and a load of guys in lycra

with rob warner screaming himself hoarse while danny hart showed more balls than all the lycra posing pouches on view today

hence

with rob warner screaming himself hoarse while danny hart showed more balls than all the lycra posing pouches on view today

Sorry but i find DH dull, it isn’t fast enough, there is no apparent competition, i appreciate it takes skill, and. I don’t find timetrials interesting in whatever form they take. I can’t figure out why anyone would watch F! qualifying etc.

Put lots of competitors on the track at the same time and you can see a race.