Warning!! old school moan about the Olympic Xc

were there any country team sponsors?

I don’t think the Swiss example is good for this, Scott is a Swiss company i believe, they are co sponsored by Swiss Power, DT again both swiss companies and a number of riders are Swiss and managed by Swiss, but IME the swiss are proud of being swiss. So whilst you have a very swiss team it is co-incidence.

and obviously at the olympics the kit is Assos.

Most teams rely on what they can get,

This is not to say you don’t get sponsorship, Sky in the UK, Rabobank in NL, etc

XC is bigger in Europe comparatively

Not here. I think it’s more complicated than that. You live in flat land people do XC. You live in Mountains, people race enduros or XMB.

The kids who ride XC are the sort who started reading the Telegraph when they were seven.

🙄

Really???? Get real.

As said before, most peoples first bike is an XC bike. Not many people (if anyone)goes to their LBS looking for a downhill bike as a first ride.

Not here. I think it’s more complicated than that. You live in flat land people do XC. You live in Mountains, people race enduros or XMB.

really?

Swiss

Maybe, just maybe, the french like the british have produced some good dh-ers and this has biased your view? And like the Brits there XC riders are no longer as good as they were

Not many people (if anyone)goes to their LBS looking for a downhill bike as a first ride.

I think they do – spoiled kids with rich parents.

Not here. I think it’s more complicated than that. You live in flat land people do XC. You live in Mountains, people race enduros or XMB.

I disagree, and ‘France’ and ‘Europe’ aren’t synonomous. Spain, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Austria and Switzerland all have thriving XC scenes, from folk who live there. All put out better riders than us too!

too many people wear baggies now, probably contentious i know

No reason you can’t race in baggies, plenty do, just not the most practical.

Not many people (if anyone)goes to their LBS looking for a downhill bike as a first ride.

molgrips –

I think they do – spoiled kids with rich parents.

Just to correct you both, this does actually happen. In my personal experience it tends to be people from moto x, quad racing, road racing backgrounds looking for a similar buzz but cheaper.

This “kid with rich parents” doesn’t really come up too much. Anyway, even very wealthy parents baulk at the idea of spending 2-5k on a bicycle and go second hand for the first few bikes.

I see a fair few kids at Cwmcarn being waited on by their parents, riding bikes I could never have imagined at that age.

I also see kids going for it on supermarket bikes too though 🙂

Didn’t win, didn’t get any money. Just raced my socks off and I’m totally buzzing.
Even this thread popped into my head. Okay it wasn’t XC but the thrill was just the same.
Nothing like the feeling you get in the dying minutes when you think you can actually win this.

What race?

Crit race – even more boring than XC.

Well surely there is not much flat land in Switzerland?Njee, super-enduro is massive in the hilly parts of Italy, and Spain. So is XMB or “Raid” as they used to be called.
EDIT: Germany as it’s fair share of big races over mountains too.

surely Raid is as much a problem as Enduro though? isn’t Paris Dakar technically a Raid? isn’t the Cristalp a Raid?

No one is saying that downhill and variants aren’t popular in europe, just that they are not everything and that other race types do exist.

mrmo I never said XC didn’t exist any more, just that people stop racing it and start racing more interesting things.

I know you didn’t say that XC had gone away.

I would argue about “do more interesting things” though. Enduro and the like do demand time, they take all day basically. A local XC race allows you to have some fun, but doesn’t mean you have lost a whole day. I can spend time with the girlfriend, etc.

I guess it comes down to why you ride, for me it is to find out what i can physically make my body do, how far can i push it up a hill, how fast, for me downhill is a means to get to the next climb. But i know many people see climbs as a means of getting to the next downhill.

The other detail, i have rent to pay, bills etc. crashing and breaking bones is something i try to avoid*. For me racing and riding is a way to de-stress an escape from life, but it doesn’t pay the bills.

*I know no one actively tries to break anything but downhill racing is more likely than XC to end in tears

As for people going away? i have never done many races but i first raced mid ’90’s and ok things aren’t at that level, but there are more races now than for a good few years, and it would seem people are going back to XC racing after trying other things.

mrmo I never said XC didn’t exist any more, just that people stop racing it and start racing more interesting things.

Still waiting for that useful contribution Juan, I fear it’ll be a long wait 🙄

I don’t think people are going away from XC. You probably didn’t notice because the Orsums clouded your view, but Val d’Isere hosted a World Cup XC race last month, last time I checked that was hilly, and in France. World Cup fields are still knocking 200, the elite race at the National XC Championships here had 90 entrants this year, which is more than I ever remember it having.

Yes Enduro is on the rise (it didn’t exist 10 years ago after all), but mountain biking in general is on the rise, it stands to reason that there’ll be more people competing, one needn’t come at the expense of the others.

Out of interest, why don’t you race DH with your epic skillz? Surely you’re rad enough to win world cups? If you’re too good for XC, Enduro just strikes me as the halfway house…

I still love XC racing… but at my end of the scale there’s very little in the way of shoulder to shoulder battles going on like Njee and some others have.
However it does give you something you cannot simply get anywhere else… the desire to never quit…. the desire on a hill to push and push and push till you’re finished.

When you’re out riding it’s very easy to cruise a particular section but when racing, obviously that is removed from your mind, you may ease slightly if you’re above your limit… but cruising isn’t an option.

Like Njee, i see the uphills as much an interesting integral part of riding as i do the downhills… possibly more so due to skill levels..

I still love XC racing… but at my end of the scale there’s very little in the way of shoulder to shoulder battles going on like Njee and some others have

Im sure this gets back to categories.

When your back in 50th place there is little point pushing your self harder just to make sure you dont drop to 51th.

but if the categories were sorted out properly you might find your self in 10th place and then there might be more incentive not to drop back to 11th so youd have more of a race on.

I still love XC racing… but at my end of the scale there’s very little in the way of shoulder to shoulder battles going on like Njee and some others have

Im sure this gets back to categories.

When your back in 50th place there is little point pushing your self harder just to make sure you dont drop to 51th.

but if the categories were sorted out properly you might find your self in 10th place and then there might be more incentive not to drop back to 11th so youd have more of a race on.

Also there might be more people around u rather than them also finding themselves being destroy in the masters race.

Time for a ramble so apologies in advance.

I’ve been racing on and off for since the early 90’s. Mostly XC back in the day especially racing in the Cannock Chase Classic series.

These days I am probably fitter and faster than back then and these days I enter XC, 12hr, 100mile and used to do 24hr.

One word to describe all of this and that is fragmentation. So no wonder XC races are stagnant. I can remember entering a Gorrick and Paul Lasenby winning the Masters race riding a big 6inch heavy monster bike, but it didn’t seem to slow him down!

These days the Southern XC and Gorrick series are mostly roadies. I now race on my singlespeed as it adds an element of fun and because riding a singlespeed is self limiting this limits my expectations so I don’t get peed off if a whippet with shaved legs gets glory in the open category.

I am curious with switching over to road because the category system seems rewards progress. With MTBing it is very difficult to judge progress using the current category system.

My younger brother does road running and their club structure is very much geared up to local competition similar to road clubs. This is why when a chap at work asked what the difference between MTBing and road riding clubs my response was as follows;

“Road riding clubs are similar to running clubs where there is an element of competition and going faster. Whilst MTB riding is similar to golf because playing golf even in a group is a solitary exercise as it is you against the course and less about your against other golfers. Similar to riding a singletrack section through the woods with mates. You may be riding with others but you personally negotiate wet roots, berms, drops, jumps, then go to the pub to chat about it.

In golf you start at hole 1, negotiate bunkers, avoid the rough, the off-camber par 5 fairway and then go to the 19th hole to chat about it.”

This is why I think MTB is like golf.

PS I don’t play golf anymore just MTB.

I don’t think people are going away from XC. You probably didn’t notice because the Orsums clouded your view, but Val d’Isere hosted a World Cup XC race last month, last time I checked that was hilly, and in France. World Cup fields are still knocking 200, the elite race at the National XC Championships here had 90 entrants this year, which is more than I ever remember it having.

Yes Enduro is on the rise (it didn’t exist 10 years ago after all), but mountain biking in general is on the rise, it stands to reason that there’ll be more people competing, one needn’t come at the expense of the others.

Well, did you notice they hosted the DH and the trial event too? And a world cup event is hardly something for you joe average (were you racing at val d’Isère BTW). Just to give you something, the average number off participant to any local 1001 enduro series is between 150 and 200 (sospel enduro register about 270 people). And about 20 girls. Last time the SO did and XC she was the only girl. The thing you seem to fail to comprehend is that 15-20 years ago, the races (call them XC or whatever you want) were all where enduros are now raced. Most XMB are enduros with several liaison timed as well.

However the field of XC as gone down due to the lack of technicality. DH needs a specific bike (so does XC actually) and is just too short.

Enduro inspite of what you think, is physically challenging (words from Bailly Maître himself but you probably think he’s not good enough for you) as stages are “mainly” descending, but you get some uphills and flat bits that have to be ridden flat out with a “big” bike. Average stage length for an average rider is about 15 minutes. And there is 3-5 of them. So closer to XC time to DH time racing wise. And then you have the 1500-1600 m of climb in between the stages. More than a XC race.
I think this is why you don’t get much youngs in the XC. It’s not appealing any more. All the people I know from the enduro series use to race XC, but they got bored and wanted something more challenging.

Kids from club who have some good XC talents, much prefer racing enduro now.
This in spite of what you think might tell you something. Do you really think you’ll be faster than Vouilloz, Clemets, Weir, Absalon (remy) around a XC race?

Plus you misunderstood me with GW. I never said I was good. However my offer to challenge you on a transv still stand 😉

Well I must say I’m stunned!! so much great debate and opinions …. brilliant!! 😀

All I can say with regards the old guard is that I remember watching the Grundig in Plymouth… the one where Baker had to qaulify the day before…and then come from a zillianth place on the race day to win?? and to this day, it is to me the most remarkable inspiring piece of CX riding I ever witnessed. And I have never seen the like again.
Baker would have won the gold in my opinion…

They just seemed super human…. British XC needs some new Super Humans!

timax 🙂

Baker … Super Human Plymouth Grundig world cup race!

Brilliant!… 😀

From 60th place to 1st…

Baker… Super Human Plymouth Grundig world cup race the start!!

Baker…superhuman ..the first bit!!!

60th to 1st…. Gold medal material if ever I’ve seen it! 😀

2hrs 31 minutes ish.. 5 laps if I remeber right… 8ish miles a lap? somebody correct me if you can please… about 15/16 mph average … and Plymouth was an awesome course!!!
😀

Lots of tired arguments. XC has changed. DH also changed. It used to be hip for DH riders to slate Lycra riding XC riders but that is OLD. Fast riders, who really understand what it takes to be a fast XC racer never slated XC riders. I am thinking of Palmer, Peat and Minnaar as examples. The slating usually comes from wannabes who would never get close to Nino, Kulhavy, in fact the top 50 World Cup racers, either up or downhill. And they have more skills than you’d imagine too but save those for less important days.

The Olympic course provided one of the best XC races I ever seen (I’ve been to quite a few) and showed that the course designers got something right. I was proved wrong.

I was at the Plymouth race when Baker won. It was a great day out. Whether he would’ve won a gold medal is speculation and that’s all. There are so many variables that one cannot control. At the time he was certainly our best contender. What a difference three years makes……

@ Warhead… I have to say I too was proved wrong with the the Olympic course… I did enjoy the race… loved it in fact!!. XC races( I’ve seen quite a few too) 😀 ridden them , crashed them… had my 10 man team at NPS level (juniors, sports, expert,vets to pro-elite)… at least one junior ended working his through to Elite… a vet was even national champion one year? and one Elite did a couple of Grundigs?? But over that time I got a good feeling for the riders that had that understanding of raising their game to an inspirational level. I understand the variables… and on his day I would put baker up against anyone!… It’s an opinion rather than a speculation …

How do we get XC back to where it needs to be… some strong opinions on here too?! which is great…

Nick Craig is an inspiration beyond belief!!! … still hurting his competition to this day!! Him and Clarke would have faired well too… in my opnion??? 😆

Lots of tired arguments. XC has changed. DH also changed. It used to be hip for DH riders to slate Lycra riding XC riders but that is OLD. Fast riders, who really understand what it takes to be a fast XC racer never slated XC riders. I am thinking of Palmer, Peat and Minnaar as examples. The slating usually comes from wannabes who would never get close to Nino, Kulhavy, in fact the top 50 World Cup racers, either up or downhill. And they have more skills than you’d imagine too but save those for less important days.

Too true.

Finally made it to the end of this thread. I may have missed it, but I don’t think that anybody has commented that making XC courses more technical to encourage middle aged IT managers with good technical skills to take part won’t do anything to address the issue raised by the OP. Of course we are allowed thread creep on here, and lots of other good points have been raised, but that’s certainly not the way to get the next Olympic champion. The answer to that isn’t getting middle aged people who ride bikes back into XC racing, it’s getting kids in and retaining them. I don’t know what the solution to that question is – not when anybody with the talent is likely to see track/road as a better way to make a living – but it’s that point you need to address. The technicality of our courses is pretty much irrelevant to that issue.

thinking about it a little,

A lot of roadies i know ride because of parents, in some way getting middle aged riders racing, taking their kids with them, having youth/junior categories might be a way forward?

Well yesterday for the first time in about 15 years I went for a ride round a muddy field. All you hardcore freeriders would have hated it – not a rock in sight, and no real gnarr bits to make you scared. There were also some tough climbs and given recent weather, a fair bit of mud (though actually a lot less than I expected – mostly it was tacky rather than muddy).

The thing is though, it was Tracy Moseley’s muddy field. Oh and she won the women’s race (I suspect home advantage helped, but it does rather disprove the popular idea about DHers). Far from technically easy and a course for roadies to win on – there was a lot of time to be made by riding well and keeping your momentum. In fact I found to my surprise that I’ve somewhat improved my skills in 15 years, as I remember being really rubbish back then, but being a bit unfit nowadays I found I was losing time on the climbs, but catching back up in all the tight twisty up and down sections, and even managed a couple of passes in the tight bits.

What’s more, the “stadium” section was also not completely boringly straight and flat, and made a brilliant loop for the kiddies races. Mini-aracer loved it. They also held a coaching day for kids on Saturday, with Tracy helping out (unfortunately mini-aracer was a bit young for that at only 5). Now you might still have the issue with them dropping out when they get older, but at least they’re getting them in the bottom of the pyramid. I understand there are a lot of new junior coaching initiatives similar to the one mini-aracer goes to (run by the local club who organised yesterday’s races), so something is happening. Oh, and for anybody local with kids (Stoner?) next term’s sessions are on Fridays at 5pm at Sport Dysons, starting on 14th September.

Not my best ever pic, but the only one which shows anything other than a flat muddy field