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  • Ukraine
  • futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    If anyone wants a different take on proceedings there this

    That’s 5min I’ll never get back, don’t waste your time 👎

    timba
    Free Member

    The death of poorly trained and equipped conscripts is a tragedy but is one of Russia’s own making.
    Conscripts are a massive part of normal military life in the Russian Federation. They have a cadre of trained personnel who aren’t expected to serve “abroad” during conscription and can be drafted in the event of mobilisation
    The difference with the invasion of Ukraine is that conscripts have been involved from day one and mobilisation came later, by which time they needed more conscripts.
    We know that they’re now untrained and ill-equipped kids but they represent the RF and as such…
    There is a theory that the untrained tranche will hold the frontline in a slow-moving winter war while more comprehensively trained conscripts will follow in the Spring for a new offensive. The reality is that conscripts are dying in huge numbers, partly because they don’t have more experienced soldiers to learn even the basics from

    piemonster
    Full Member

    That’s 5min I’ll never get back, don’t waste your time 👎

    He seems to think they’re still as capable as they was when he was working for the Reagan (I think) administration.

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    The death of poorly trained and equipped conscripts is a tragedy but is one of Russia’s own making.
    Conscripts are a massive part of normal military life in the Russian Federation. They have a cadre of trained personnel who aren’t expected to serve “abroad” during conscription and can be drafted in the event of mobilization
    The difference with the invasion of Ukraine is that conscripts have been involved from day one and mobilization came later, by which time they needed more conscripts.
    We know that they’re now untrained and ill-equipped kids but they represent the RF and as such…
    There is a theory that the untrained tranche will hold the front line in a slow-moving winter war while more comprehensively trained conscripts will follow in the Spring for a new offensive. The reality is that conscripts are dying in huge numbers, partly because they don’t have more experienced soldiers to learn even the basics from.

    This is very true, but we have to remember that Ukraine is also putting poorly trained soldiers into the field. They had a law from the start that men weren’t allowed to leave with their families as refugees and had to stay and fight the aggressor.

    We’ve seen plenty of vids early int he conflict, of pretty much locals manning the barricades as a militia force, unfortunately many of those have been killed.

    I think for the US its a minimum of 10 weeks, and the UK it’s 14 weeks training.

    Although its nearly impossible to know casualty figures at this stage, it appears from more reputable sources the UN etc, that the Ukrainian death toll is about as high as Russia’s.

    And this conflict is far from over. We might end up with many hundreds of thousands dead on both sides.

    What a waste of life.

    and the UK it’s 14 weeks training.

    28 Weeks for Infantry in the UK. You’d then have any specialist training depending on unit (mounted/jumps/etc) afterwards, also maybe readiness workups as required depending on Brigade.

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    If anyone wants a different take on proceedings there this

    That’s 5min I’ll never get back, don’t waste your time

    He gives away his stance in these comments:
    “The Western whore media”
    “The Western presstitutes”

    dantsw13
    Free Member

    Moon of Alabama is, and always has been, a very pro Russian site.

    thols2
    Free Member

    Just because the Ukrainians are fighting for the good doesn’t mean they are holier than holy. The Ukrainian’s opened fire, and even if it was to defend against this lone Russian, there was certainly no reason to kill the Russians lying unarmed and defenseless on the ground.

    The Russians were lying right in front of a Ukrainian machine gun. Another Russian opened fire on the Ukrainians. The machine gunner returned fire. All the Russians in front of the machine gun were killed. The Ukrainians had no way of knowing whether the Russians on the ground were part of the trap or not, having been fooled once, they had no obligation to put themselves at risk again.

    Launching an attack under the pretense of surrender is a war crime. The fault in this case lies entirely with the Russians.

    timba
    Free Member

    After that stunt the Russian soldier pulled last week, when he opened fire on Ukrainian soldiers trying to accept a Russian surrender

    Launching an attack under the pretense of surrender is a war crime. The fault in this case lies entirely with the Russians

    AIUI this is uncorrobrated video. It was widely trumpeted by Russian media and Telegram channels
    Why do you think that Russia would advertise an incident, open to interpretation, where fault lies entirely with the Russians?
    If Russia shines a spotlight into a dark corner it’s because they don’t want you looking in the other corners.
    By repeatedly returning to this you are perpetuating the Russian narrative, which IMHO is to avoid the public examination of their refusal to allow access to POWs and their apalling treatment of conscripts and POWS as reported by the UN.
    Please let investigators investigate

    thols2
    Free Member

    Why do you think that Russia would advertise an incident where fault lies entirely with the Russians?

    Russia has been boasting of their war crimes right from the beginning. In the Russian narrative, Ukrainians are sub-human drug-addicted Nazis who deserve to be tortured and raped. Boasting about inflicting war crimes on Ukrainians boosts support among the militaristic groups in Russia. It makes no difference to them whether a Russian committed a war crime in this instance, they will reject any facts that don’t suit them.

    timba
    Free Member

    SAAB and Boeing have been developing a hybrid rocket-bomb since 2019
    It’s now ready for production and is ideal for Ukraine in that it uses existing components that are well-stocked. The bomb has been in use since 2006 and is proven, as is the rocket motor, and it doesn’t need a special launch platform. This will take a lot of supply pressure off western allies
    150km range, capable of striking with incredible accuracy (“radius of a car tire (sic)”) and a similar warhead weight to GMRLS (as used with HIMARS, etc) https://www.saab.com/products/ground-launched-small-diameter-bomb-glsdb
    It hasn’t been confirmed, but “We are imminently, shortly expecting contracts on that,” Saab president and CEO Micael Johansson https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/saab-expects-first-contract-soon-for-new-glsdb-artillery-weapon
    SAAB has a strong military background with everything from aircraft to anti-tank weapons in their inventory

    timba
    Free Member

    “Nov 27 (Reuters) – Exports of Ukraine’s grain will not reach 3 million tonnes in November as Russia tries to limit ship inspections at ports”
    Inspections have dropped from 40 per day to around 8
    https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/ukraine-sees-less-than-3-mln-tonnes-grain-leaving-november-minister-2022-11-27/

    molgrips
    Full Member

    150km range, capable of striking with incredible accuracy (“radius of a car tire

    So if I had one here in Cardiff, I could hit say, a specific wheely bin in Swindon.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    So if I had one here in Cardiff, I could hit say, a specific wheely bin in Swindon

    Let it go man. Let it go.

    timba
    Free Member

    I could hit say, a specific wheely bin in Swindon

    Yes, wheally. Don’t bother opening the lid

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    If the bomb component could be replaced by a basic container then I could see this being a great development for Evri.

    rickmeister
    Full Member

    I could hit say, a specific wheely bin in Swindon

    Please note there is a “Wheelie Free” zone behind the Nationwide… Trash Free Trails etc etc

    futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    150km range is a game changer!

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    150km range is a game changer!

    It would make a big difference, but unless I’ve missed something, there’s nothing to suggest Ukraine is getting that Saab/Boeing munition?  I hope they do, but seeing as there has been so much western resistance to Ukraine getting ATACAMS and other long range systems, I can see some blocks being put on that.  Hope I’m wrong.

    funkrodent
    Full Member

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/28/ukraine-news-russia-war-live-citizens-flee-kherson-shelling/

    This has been covered today in the Torygraph, so is hitting the MSM, which would indicate that there is some credibility to these claims

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Ooh, I’d not seen that.  Hope it happens.

    greyspoke
    Free Member

    How can a Russian warship be deployed to the Black Sea when no Russian warship can get through the Bosphorus? Surely it must have been there all along?
    ETA the headline from that Telegraph rolling news page in case it changes:

    Warship carrying Kalibr missiles deployed to Black Sea as Russia ‘prepares fresh attacks’

    piemonster
    Full Member

    Theres more than on sea east of the Bosphorus and linked to the Black Sea

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Azov

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    How can a Russian warship be deployed to the Black Sea when no Russian warship can get through the Bosphorus? Surely it must have been there all along?

    Russian port of Stevastopol in crimea? if you zoom in on google maps satelite view theres a few military ships there.

    These are deffinatley not commercial vessles https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/44%C2%B037’24.8%22N+33%C2%B033’18.1%22E/@44.6231025,33.5559323,275m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x3a134cf8bd3d856!8m2!3d44.6235445!4d33.555017

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    If the bomb component could be replaced by a basic container then I could see this being a great development for Evri.

    It would certainly remove the need for a calling card to say “I left it in the shed” when your shed looks like:

    futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    A useful little video on the GLSDB, it can be fired from existing kit, like HIMARS or M270.

    GLSDB

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    I see you’re a racist now father?

    timba
    Free Member

    How can a Russian warship be deployed to the Black Sea when no Russian warship can get through the Bosphorus?

    AIUI in peacetime you can navigate warships with notification to Turkiye
    In wartime only those registered to Black Sea bases can navigate, Turkiye has sent many RF vessels the long way around since February
    Montreux Convention 1936… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Turkiye has sent many RF vessels the long way around since February

    What’s the long way round?

    timba
    Free Member

    What’s the long way round?

    The Med fleet navigate via the N. Atlantic to St Petersburg and Vladivostock. Refits, resupply of Syrian garrison and annual navy days

    finephilly
    Free Member

    They really should be negotiating now. Any gains made by Ukraine will come at such a high cost.

    pk13
    Full Member

    Thay are still stealing children. Would you talk to state sponsored kidnapping regimens?

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    They really should be negotiating now. Any gains made by Ukraine will come at such a high cost.

    Negotiating what, exactly? Given the losses, damage and war crimes committed so far, any further losses really aren’t an issue, at national level (tragic at a human level, obviously)

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    They really should be negotiating now. Any gains made by Ukraine will come at such a high cost.

    That’s up to Ukraine without pressure from outside, but I can’t see it happening any time soon.  Based on past experience, any promises Russia makes in negotiations would be worthless. They would only use it to rearm and reorg before attacking again.  If you watch any of the Russian media monitoring videos by Julia Davis on youtube, you will see a constant barrage of genocidal talk denying the right of Ukraine to even exist unless it’s part of Russia.  They acknowledge the rapes and atrocities and in some cases call for more. They have a pathological hatred of the ‘hohols’ for having the temerity to resist the warm embrace of mother Russia.  Russia won’t stop until Ukraine is completely subjugated, unless they get a proper bloody nose and dose of humiliation at the hands of Ukraine along the way. IMO that is happening and will continue to do so.

    finephilly
    Free Member

    Negotiating for peace. UK didn’t move when Russia was where they are now in 2014 (Donbas). So why continue to support Ukraine? It’s costing an utter fortune, for what benefit?

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Negotiating for peace.

    Which will involve Ukraine ceding more of their sovereign territory. Why should they? It would reward and encourage territorial land grabs by an authoritarian regime. Where next? Poland? Estonia? Lithuania? Should they just roll over and negotiate away their territory too?

    UK didn’t move when Russia was where they are now in 2014 (Donbas).

    We should have, not doing so was a mistake which emboldened Putin. We have learnt that lesson

    So why continue to support Ukraine? It’s costing an utter fortune, for what benefit?

    To prevent a belligerent pariah state in Europe from rebuilding an empire it believes is it’s by right. By invading it’s democratic neighbours. Russia will destabilise the whole of Europe for years to come if they get away with this. It’s in our own self interest to help Ukraine, as well as being the right thing to do morally IMO.

    I honestly don’t understand how anyone can look at the mass graves in Kherson, Bucha and elsewhere, the deliberate destruction of hospitals and schools, the kidnapping of children, torture and rape, Wagner scum sledgehammering people to death and say the victims should negotiate with the culprits. Especially when they still have the means and the will to fight back and expel them.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    are now in 2014 (Donbas). So why continue to support Ukraine?

    That’s exactly the point, the world did nothing when Russia annexed Donbass & Crimea, believing their lies that they wouldn’t attack again…

    And here we are

    thols2
    Free Member

    They really should be negotiating now. Any gains made by Ukraine will come at such a high cost.

    That’s up to Ukraine without pressure from outside, but I can’t see it happening any time soon. Based on past experience, any promises Russia makes in negotiations would be worthless. They would only use it to rearm and reorg before attacking again.

    Exactly. It’s Ukraine’s decision whether or not to negotiate. There is absolutely no evidence that Russia is ready to enter into negotiations in good faith anyway, they will just play for time to rearm before renewing their attacks. Honestly, why would anybody trust any promises that Russia makes?

    alpin
    Free Member

    Well said, bloke…

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