MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Thought it might be useful to have a thread on trails or areas closed by fallen trees after Arwen. Might save some wasted journeys.
And updates when they re-open or news on work parties to clear things.
I hear Tweed Valley is a mess!
Grisedale forest also has lots of fallen trees.
Not seen the Tweed Valley yet but I'm 15miles away and it's a right state here. My local woods are well beyond chainsaws I think, I'm expecting proper logging machines in there when they get round to it. Worst I've seen since I was in Suffolk in October 87!
Just sent the TrailFaries a message on the Facebook to volunteer for anything they need help with. Been meaning to join for ages but plague stopped that, now seemed like a good time to try again...
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As an aside, anyone know how long it takes to get a chainsaw certificate? I've used one before but not for a while, I'm guessing 'proper' groups like that won't let you use one without such. Still, I guess if enough of us show up to do stuff it will make a difference.
@andrewh Chainsaw tickets. I first did mine back in 2003 via the nptc route, basic felling and cross cut, a week's course with SAC in Lanark, now SRUC. Like all things in life, the course and assessment is only the start.
All the tweed valley bike forests are officially Shut. The weather after the storm's not going to help. Mostly FC will want to handle the official trails themselves, so they can do all best practice and avoid anyone getting killed to death by hanging trees or a chainsaw mishap. THere's been some bloody big falls this time round 🙁
But fallen trees on the offpistes mysteriously vanish 😉
My Mothers just sent me this text after hearing from her pal in Innerleithen!
“Eileen’s just text again to say biking trails in Innerleithen are all ruined x”
They’re both in their 70’s so there might be a bit of exaggeration/ dramatics in the text 😂
Eileen’s just text again to say biking trails in Innerleithen are all ruined x”
dunno she could be right, our local trails are un rideable, trees are like kerplunk across trails and fire roads.
A before and after of another local wood
Was at Kirroughtree on Saturday. Hundreds of trees down.
Looks like it's all the non-native stuff with their shallow root beds that are down.
Hedderwick Hills plantation, John Muir Country Park, East Lothian has more or less been flattened
(Fatty interest)
@andrewh - did my basic Chainsaw ticket (NTPC Level 2) in 2019 at a cost of about £1k, I volunteer with the RSPB in Dorset and they put me through the course. It's one week long (5 days) which included the written and practical assessments. We did it at an Ash planation and all the trees had "Ash die back", so we could fell as many as we liked. Very physical work and as I was 63 at the time and had always worked in an office environment the course was the hardest weeks work I had ever done!
@bruneep - Great videos, but while the devastation looks bad this happens all the time in nature and will create great opportunities for other plants and wildlife. Non native Pine forests are dead places for native wildlife, just listen in the spring you rarely hear bird song, so something like this event means that after a "healing" period and if left alone you will get a more diverse and much better mix of flora and fauna in the area. It always amazes me how quickly nature will take over and make things better if left to itself.
Looks like it’s all the non-native stuff with their shallow root beds that are down.
I haven't been out yet but interestingly round by me it's always the very much native beech trees that get blown over. I think this is because beech is dominant, and the roots are always shallow because the topsoil is shallow and the subsoil is impenetrable.
I haven’t been out yet but interestingly round by me it’s always the very much native beech trees that get blown over
Not sure where in the country you are molgrips, but beech is only native to the south east and some of Wales.
Marin/Gwydyr in N.Wales also in a state. Would deffo check before setting off before the weekend.
Not my video.
That forest on video and the ones we ride are managed working forests for FLS. They are not going to allow it to "heal" as you put it and become some idyllic enchanting woodland. They will harvest and replant, new trails will be born from that.
Ironic thing that FLS had not begun harvesting in the ones we ride and they were being very sympathetic to the existing trails there. Guessing its a case of just getting on with it now for them
I haven’t been out yet but interestingly round by me it’s always the very much native beech trees that get blown over
Not sure where in the country you are molgrips, but beech is only native to the south east and some of Wales.
He's in Cardiff.
Plenty of beech trees down in our main ride spot, here in Swansea.
was up at my local in Northumberland yesterday assumed there'd be a few trees down but nothing could have prepared me for the devastation that greeted me. lots of damage whole areas of trees completely flattened sound not even uprooted just snapped off at about head high. I reckon half the trails there just don't exist anymore.
Just to add to the chainsaw ticket advice, you’ll also need the wind blown trees course assessment too (and probably add the 380mm+)
Sheffield (as best I know)
Cannings- both trails blocked. (Top of Cooking on Gas is a proper mess)
Blacka - Devils Elbow, Piper House Gate and the bridleway linking parallel to the road were clear as of Saturday lunchtime, but I could hear stuff still falling in the woods while I was working, so don't assume that's still the case.
Wyming Brook - 8 or so trees down on the bridleway.
Greno - fireroads blocked, but I believe Steel City and DH3 were still clear. I think Pubrun is shut anyway.
Anyone know what Dunkeld or Pitlochry is like?
A couple of quick walks round some less popular borders forests and every path/trail have trees across them. Some I can't see being fixed. Not all Sitka etc a lot of elderly hard woods are down. Probably as they have rot somewhere.
I'd say what I've seen is worse than what closed pennels vennel a few years ago.
i was out yesterday on a local trail (midlothian) and there were 4 or 5 trees that had blown over. sizeable conifers totally upended. it's very remote and seldom visited but it's the worst storm damage i've seen in a long time.
Anyone know what Dunkeld or Pitlochry is like?
Rode through Craigower on Saturday, only the lower part though- didn't see any obvious damage. Might be different higher up. No signs of much damage along the riverside as far as Killiecrankie either.
Thanks guys about the chainsaw, sounds like considerably more than an afternoon of ticking boxes like on a first aid course. Think I'll stick to a bow saw and reciprocating saw, for my own safety as well as not getting into trouble.
Going to have a look at Yair later and see what state that's in, cleared a few bits there in the past but I'm expecting much bigger stuff down this time
local in Northumberland yesterday
A couple of lads I know posted pics looking up from the main car park at Thrunton yesterday, looked like the whole hillside has been totally flattened, hopefully I'm wrong but I can't see any of the trails on that hill surviving. Hearing from another lad that Chopwell has been hit pretty badly as well, not just trails
blocked but completely gone, bad times for mtbing in North East England
Saw a sit from guy that builds at Yair it’s fairly goosed from what he walked didn’t think FF would be salvageable
Mixed outcomes here in western Angus, around Glamis; some woods are almost unscathed while others look like they've been trampled by Godzilla. There are several holes 100m across in the middle of a forest with not a tree standing. It's bizarre how this happens in some localities and not others. Douglas fir and sitka spruce are the worst affected, although plenty of Scots pine and birch are down too. Out on the farmland, some of the dodgy die-back ashes have fallen but at least they're rarely on the trails and will get moved by farmers. It's going to take a whole winter of work to get the local network back but some areas are far beyond what can be fixed by fairies/enthusiasts with chainsaws.
It’s bizarre how this happens in some localities and not others.
I'd imagine soil structure, whether sandy or clay, and depth of this, may be a factor?.
Not sure where in the country you are molgrips, but beech is only native to the south east and some of Wales.
I googled this before posting it - and the accepted wisdom is SE England and SE Wales, where I live - but that's now being challenged by genetic studies.
It’s bizarre how this happens in some localities and not others.
Yeah what Nobeer said. This is a favourite subject of mine. There's all sorts going on under the ground. For example here trees fall down because the subsoil is glacial till and is about 50% stones, but being mild and wet the top few inches is rich loam. So the trees can't put roots down deep but they do grow outwards quite well. The woods by my house is an interesting example. It's shown on every old map back to the 1850s and I don't know of any industry or even villages here before that so there's a good chance it's quite old woodland - but there aren't many old trees in it. However there are lots of young (or at least skinny) ones blown over.
Glaciation can leave kettle holes, so if you have an area with glacial till soil and large holes the holes might fill in with good soil, and you'd be left with some areas where the trees can put down deep roots and some where they can't. Or it could be actual bedrock underground, or even water that causes the trees to be more unstable.
A quick check suggests lots of glaciofluvial activity in the Glamis area so quite possibly the ground varies in composition a lot.
A couple of lads I know posted pics looking up from the main car park at Thrunton yesterday, looked like the whole hillside has been totally flattened, hopefully I’m wrong but I can’t see any of the trails on that hill surviving. Hearing from another lad that Chopwell has been hit pretty badly as well, not just trails
blocked but completely gone, bad times for mtbing in North East England
can confirm, had a good ol pooter around, all of the north facing hills have had massive upturn of trees, and nearly all the trails down towards the stream have at least some sort of blockage. Its gonna be a while before they're up and running again properly!
Trees been down on the edge of the Galloway forest at Forest drive for years now, their root beds are 20m wide, but less than 2m deep.
I was scoping a local hill for digging some new trails last thursday night, wide open, no trees anywhere near, it's the future! wind can help dry trails off too, aye there's no protection from wind, but then it won't get destroyed by storm or forestry work.
I had a walk on Ben Vrackie yesterday. Very little sign of damage in the woods around Moulin. However windthrow can be an all or nothing thing. One tree goes and a whole coupe can be wiped out or every tree survives.
I saw no obvious areas of windthrow in the plantations, visibility was good
Some really sad stories just as so many trails were looking good after lockdown build efforts.
Pic of some impressive roots in Stirling/BOFA area. StirlingCrispin's photo.
Heard from a friend that there was lots of Strava action at Dunkeld on Saturday suggesting it it not too badly affected but second hand info!
Not holding out much hope.for bowhill. There was some felling around Illuminati not long ago and the tree guys managed to not touch the trail at all. But when the trees further in lose the shelter that usually leads to lots falling over.
*TRAIL UPDATE*
Our team is heart broken to learn of the destruction to Scotlands trail network on Friday night.
Storm Arwen ripped through Strathearn. Our local community is devastated to see our natural trail network obliterated in one go.
We do have some good news😁
Thanks to the incredible efforts of some awesome chainsaw wielding humans:
Russell Newham Maria Orourke Colin Harper Josh Rose & Digby 🤩
95% of our trails are now open.🙌
🚵♂️The full BLUE trail is open
🚵♀️All of our RED trails are open
🚵'Hairy Coo Black' & 'Sloppy Joes' are open - these are our BLACK trails accessed from Decision Rock.
*IMPORTANT*
⚠️Natural Gold remains closed⛔️ Please do not attempt to ride this trail, it is completely impassable and requires some serious thought and work to re-open it.
Text from Comrie Croft FB page.
@Gaz.dick Thrunton is one of locals too, was planning a night ride next week. Do you think it's a complete no go for the foreseeable then?
Do you think it’s a complete no go for the foreseeable then?
The lads I know that were up yesterday were saying months at the very least, most if not all fireroads blocked and no rideable trails at all that they could find ( they regularly ride there and know the place very well) . Both said a lot will probably be gone for good
I'd post a pic but no idea how I'd go about doing it
@dan30237 - i think trails down towards the stream - or off the crag will be able to be fixed pretty quick, but anything North facing, i wouldn't expect - 50% of the trees are flat around the car park (and that is not an exaggeration!).
I didnt get round all of the trails, mainly because so many fireroads blocked, and it required some interesting routes to get inside the forest proper.
Can't see it being a quick jobbie- but will be easier to tell if FC can clear the fireroads at least..
One thing that tends to cause a real domino effect is when a block of timber's been removed- suddenly the trees behind it that are used to having the wind protection have none, and down they go. Doubly so if they're an oldschool solid forestry block so it's a wall of trees with maximum wind resistance. But this storm seems to have taken out a lot of natural wood, and also notably stuff that's been really stable- Comrie's a good example. Five Year Plan at GT a good one too, it's obviously the edge of the forest but it's always been that way so for whatever reason this year's first real storm has demolished stuff that's resisted for years. It didn't seem that bad just being out in it but it was seriously gusty I suppose, you'd get moments of near-calm and then huge slams of wind.
@Northwind with that moniker you should be able to figure out why this was different. 😆.
It was indeed a north wind which is not the normal strong wind direction.
Ohhhhh. Yes that makes sense. I'm oblivious to that sort of thing.
In that case, I apologise for all the trouble I have caused.
@Northwind with that moniker you should be able to figure out why this was different. 😆.
It was indeed a north wind which is not the normal strong wind direction.
Well put.
Anyone know what Gisburns like? Was thinking of heading down on thursday.
And wow! A week for basic chainsaw. It was a day 30 odd years ago when I did mine then another day for basic felling.
@Gaz.dick that's absolutely gutting to hear, Thrunton is brilliant. Do you know of any efforts planned for volunteers to clear the trails? I'll happily go along with a spade to help.
Cutting/clearing windblown trees stacked on top of each other can be really hazardous. Hope no-one gets hurt being a 'have-a-go hero'
@dan30237 @Gaz.dick also gutted to hear about Thrunton, one of my favourite places. I'm sure the trail building group will be looking at what they can do, but as @boxelder says, likely to be largely clearing fallen trees with chainsaws, so presumably not much volunteers can do.
I expect me and @Northwind are not going to be welcome round here for a while, in the same way that people stopped buying Corona beer at the start of the pandemic.
Fair few in Forest Of dean Sunday but big area so you can just go around them Dowies area was fine would not of gone down there Saturday.
Yep, folk not realising that th root and associated earth is being countered by the tree. Cut it in the wrong place and root ball falls back into its hole bringing the trunk with it and clocking the unsuspecting in the face on the way through.
Fair few in Forest Of dean Sunday but big area so you can just go around them Dowies area was fine would not of gone down there Saturday.
Dowies 5 had one across it on Sunday.
TVTA just posted this photo of Walk Or Burn, or rather what was:
Thrunton is brilliant. Do you know of any efforts planned for volunteers to clear the trails? I’ll happily go along with a spade to help.
Fairly sure the trailbuilders meet on the 1st Sunday every month but from what I've seen of the damage (pics, not actually been up myself) I'd be surprised if FC allow anyone in for a good while yet, I'm told the steep stuff ( Pink Panther/Big Issue/Concussion etc) is completely wrecked, possibly beyond saving, same for trails back down to the car park (HP sauce, Monkey Trousers/Skullys Gully etc). Fingers crossed at least some of it survives and I'll definitely muck in when they get the ok
Following from DMBinS on FB.
STORM ARWEN – EMERGENCY WEBINAR – TONIGHT 1930 (30th November 2021)
It has been a hard weekend for several trail groups across Scotland with many trails having been damaged or lost to Storm Arwen. Whilst we understand the desire to open trails, particularly those who may have only a handful of trees down, can we reiterate that it is essential that any work has to be agreed in advance before being carried out.
We have been engaging with Forestry and Land Scotland and would like to convene an online meeting between FLS, Trails Associations, Local Groups, and trail builders at 7.30 tonight, Tuesday 30th November 2021.
The meeting will focus on the immediate priorities of inspecting the damage in a safe way and getting a shared understanding of the current challenge.
Building trust and understanding will be important for effective working together through this process. We are sure you understand and will help share the webinar link and the news of this proactive approach.
Please feel free to share this link with anyone involved in inspecting or clearing trails.
Webinar on Zoom: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81374351759
We are keen to help advise riders of locations across Scotland that are open and safe to ride and will be collating and disseminating information as soon as we get it.
@Jordan, Gisburn cafe has a facebook page
which suggests they've had some problems but probably mostly rideable now I'd guess. You could try phoning tomorrow to check. There were some trees down round here but not really very many, it wasn't all that windy IMO. Not the carnage seen in some places anyway.
Things are looking better for the Golfie than I feared.
TVTA just posted this.
Big day of hiking yesterday for a number of our most experienced co ordinators and builders as we carefully walked the trails of Caberston and Cairn hill to record damage locations to pass back to Forestry and Land Scotland for repairs once they can happen.
Amazingly most of the trails have come through with only minor areas affected and with a bit of time and work we should get the entire front side of the hill back eventually. There are some huge areas of mayhem off the back which may well be gone forever though, and with access roads still horribly blocked the chance to get in real trouble up there remains very real for now.
Please stay off the hill for the moment, know that things are moving to get us back to a better place and that it could have been much much worse! We already have work plans for restoration once we can take digs in so keep a look out for updates over the coming days and weeks. #forestry
The effects of Storm Arwen has been quite extensive at Cannock Chase Forest. There is widespread damage across all trails. So unfortunately we have extensive closures at the moment.
We have a team out working to clear the damage but anticipate that this will be several days work. They're working hard to get things back to normal as quickly as possible.
Open
• Carparks
• Café
• Bike Shop
• Christmas Trees
• Lady hill Area
• Concert Field
• Gruffalo Spotters
• Pedal and Play (Leaf section Closed)
• Play Area
Closed
• GoApe
• All Trails
• Fairoak
• Perry’s Trail
• Follow the Dog
• Monkey Trail
• Stile Cop
• Running Trails
• Fishing Pools
• Orienteering
• Tackeroo Camping
Thanks for bearing with us.
The presumption for dealing with multiple wind blow in publicly owned forests will and should be mechanised i.e. by harvesters. So the clear up may take some time.
Yeah would expect some serious kit getting deployed in many locations - and these are just the forests we’re paying attention to as they have trails. Every tree on the ground is potentially lost revenue, so they’ll have to get a shift on
On the FLS webinar tonight, the FLS man said most of the wind blow has no commercial value and will in fact cot them money to retrieve.
Urgh, hopefully there’s still incentive to move it quickly then
someone on a FB page posted up a summary of FLS meeting
It Was pretty tough to listen to. Basically stay out of the forests.. FLS are a few weeks from knowing full extent of the damage. Most of the timber isn’t of any value and all the clean up where there’s been wind fall has to be done by machines no man and chainsaw. Money simply won’t be there to sort all of it. Need to wait a wee while to give FLS a chance fully assess the scope of the damage. The immediate focus is on property damage, power line damage and trapped people. FLS want to utilise the MTB community’s support but need to assess where that can be best put to use and obviously only when safe to do so. That will all take time. They will regularly communicate through Trail associations etc and let us know as soon as possible where it is ok to ride..
the FLS promised an update very soon
Had a mooch about Chopwell this afternoon. There are a lot of trees down on fire roads. Some are able to be bypassed, some are like the end of a game of Jenga.
Trail-wise, the east seems to be more affected, with the odd trails that are blocked that can be cleared with folding saws on the West.
Seemed like 50% uprooted pine, 25% pine/spruce etc where the trunk snapped and 25% other where boughs snapped.
It's bad, but luckily not as bad as it could've been. I'm sure new trails and new ways in to existing trails will appear, just like they do after logging.
From the FLS ditty above -
Most of the timber isn’t of any value
How bloody galling is that.
Not the best week for the missus to surprise me with a MTBing weekend she’s booked for my birthday at Glentress/Inners in 10 days. Don’t have the heart to tell her how bad it sounds.
Not the best week for the missus to surprise me with a MTBing weekend she’s booked for my birthday at Glentress/Inners in 10 days. Don’t have the heart to tell her how bad it sounds
@bighairydel Adrenalin uplift are saying that FLS have assessed and it doesn't look anywhere near as bad as feared on Plora side, hearing similar things about Golfie side too, so might be okay. There's still Gypsy glen, 3 brethren etc and a whole load of other really good natural riding.
On the FLS webinar tonight, the FLS man said most of the wind blow has no commercial value and will in fact cot them money to retrieve.
Bit of a moot point, but is that "it has no commercial value now it's blown over" or "it didn't have any commericial value before"?
Even the assessments and updates are going to be slow- harvester's clearing the roads, rangers are inspecting trails but that's a lot of trails and some aren't safely accessible. Then planning for chainsaw ops. The next trailfairies session's been cancelled just for safety and for not really being able to plan, so we're not going to get into actually fixing stuff (like root-plate damage) or light windfall clearance for a bit longer.
(as ever, this is me as a volunteer, I don't speak for the FC at all and I can be wrong)
Seems pretty obvious though that the focus will be on the busiest trails, and also the most accessible trails and easiest to reopen trails. And I think you can take it for granted that there'll be some long-term closures and some permanent closures though don't make too many assumptions about which or where because it's often not simple.
Lockdown giveth and Arwen taketh away 🙁
thenorthwind
Full MemberBit of a moot point, but is that “it has no commercial value now it’s blown over” or “it didn’t have any commericial value before”?
Yeah for sure some of it will have had pretty marginal value anyway but at the same time a lot of it will be just not ready/not the right time to harvest.
Saw one - quite large - tree across the trails up Beecraigs (West Lothian) last weekend, went out for a spin today and it's already been cut out of the way. Excellent work to the park rangers.
Bit of a moot point, but is that “it has no commercial value now it’s blown over” or “it didn’t have any commericial value before”?
Both now I'd imagine. he just said "the wind blow has no commercial value and will in fact cost them money to retrieve." Only he knows exactly what he meant, but from the rest of conversation it sounded they won't be in a hurry to retrieve/harvest. On the tress that have blown he did say the if the root ball is still attached to the ground the trees will continue to live. so the wood wouldn't start to decline as quick as if it snapped at the base etc. Guessing the target markets for that timber require "fresh" wood as apposed to aged cut wood.
Bit of a moot point, but is that “it has no commercial value now it’s blown over” or “it didn’t have any commericial value before”?
My guess wood be (see what I did there🤣🤣🤣) that neat rows of standing trees are easy/cheap to harvest and lots of trees just strewn about the place are difficult/expensive. The wood may well be worth the same but if the costs of actually getting it out becomes higher than its value there's little incentive to do so.
And a fair few will probably be snapped and broken and probably worth less anyway, double whammy
https://dmbins.com/
If you are in Scotland it might be worth following dmbins for updates from FLS and others, probably via Facebook, Twitter etc
https://forestryandland.gov.scot/visit/activities/mountain-biking/7stanes
Again, Facebook and Twitter etc seem to be the way organisations wish to use to communicate
Spoke to an Ae village resident earlier and FLS have not made a start on road/trail clearances which isn`t a surprise.
A friend is a retired SSE employee and he has a son who has worked all the hours since Saturday. Dumfries and Galloway apparently has the largest percentage of overland power lines in Scotland and he has`t seen such devastation in all he working days!
Had a look over all our local trails today (Shropshire, near Shrewsbury) and pretty much every single one of them is going to be unrideable for a long time. One area that has numerous brilliant little trails is absolutely destroyed and I can’t see any of them ever being ridden again. The area is generally looked after by local authority wardens, but in reality, it’s usually people who live around here that clear trees from paths and trails. The current devastation is way beyond anyone except a large forestry operation, which doesn’t exist here. It’s certainly put a crimp on having mountain biking as a hobby and I’m more than a bit sad for my daughter, as we grab our bikes and head out for fun, local rides every week without fail, or did. It’s odd, as the village itself hasn’t really suffered much damage so it was shocking to see the state of the country parks.
I just hope all the trail centres and businesses who really need trails to survive manage to get through this, harsh times after the two years they have had.
Where I'm planning to dig this year, not a tree in sight!
@steamtb you could perhaps organise a whip-round for someone to come in and clear it? Don't give up.
Good idea @molgrips, but I’m guessing it’s 10’s of 1000’s if not lots more and the geography would make it impossible for large machinery without doing a huge amount more damage. I have messaged the wardens to see if they want volunteers as a starter for 10!
Well presumably you don't need the whole lot removed just parts of some?
We had a huge downed tree on one trail and someone just cut the middle out and left the rest. Not quite sure how, mind.
no-one gets hurt being a ‘have-a-go hero’
there was a bloke on the BBC news a day or two ago cutting a tree sat in a road which was >4ft, no chainsaw specific ppe at all, and the way he was wielding the saw made me wince. Just hacking away, plunging the saw out of sight on the opposite side of the tree, no stable platform to be stood on etc.
Yeah don't have a go yourself without extreme caution and even then only on really small stuff. Downed trees can be weighted and under great tension so many tons of timber can end up flying about explosively when the tension is released.