[Closed] Trees on trails

TVTA just posted this photo of Walk Or Burn, or rather what was:

Thrunton is brilliant. Do you know of any efforts planned for volunteers to clear the trails? I’ll happily go along with a spade to help.

Fairly sure the trailbuilders meet on the 1st Sunday every month but from what I've seen of the damage (pics, not actually been up myself) I'd be surprised if FC allow anyone in for a good while yet, I'm told the steep stuff ( Pink Panther/Big Issue/Concussion etc) is completely wrecked, possibly beyond saving, same for trails back down to the car park (HP sauce, Monkey Trousers/Skullys Gully etc). Fingers crossed at least some of it survives and I'll definitely muck in when they get the ok

Following from DMBinS on FB.

STORM ARWEN – EMERGENCY WEBINAR – TONIGHT 1930 (30th November 2021)
It has been a hard weekend for several trail groups across Scotland with many trails having been damaged or lost to Storm Arwen. Whilst we understand the desire to open trails, particularly those who may have only a handful of trees down, can we reiterate that it is essential that any work has to be agreed in advance before being carried out.
We have been engaging with Forestry and Land Scotland and would like to convene an online meeting between FLS, Trails Associations, Local Groups, and trail builders at 7.30 tonight, Tuesday 30th November 2021.
The meeting will focus on the immediate priorities of inspecting the damage in a safe way and getting a shared understanding of the current challenge.
Building trust and understanding will be important for effective working together through this process. We are sure you understand and will help share the webinar link and the news of this proactive approach.
Please feel free to share this link with anyone involved in inspecting or clearing trails.
Webinar on Zoom: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81374351759
We are keen to help advise riders of locations across Scotland that are open and safe to ride and will be collating and disseminating information as soon as we get it.

@Jordan, Gisburn cafe has a facebook page

which suggests they've had some problems but probably mostly rideable now I'd guess. You could try phoning tomorrow to check. There were some trees down round here but not really very many, it wasn't all that windy IMO. Not the carnage seen in some places anyway.

@thecaptain just seen on fb forestry have closed the trails.

Things are looking better for the Golfie than I feared.

TVTA just posted this.

Big day of hiking yesterday for a number of our most experienced co ordinators and builders as we carefully walked the trails of Caberston and Cairn hill to record damage locations to pass back to Forestry and Land Scotland for repairs once they can happen.
Amazingly most of the trails have come through with only minor areas affected and with a bit of time and work we should get the entire front side of the hill back eventually. There are some huge areas of mayhem off the back which may well be gone forever though, and with access roads still horribly blocked the chance to get in real trouble up there remains very real for now.
Please stay off the hill for the moment, know that things are moving to get us back to a better place and that it could have been much much worse! We already have work plans for restoration once we can take digs in so keep a look out for updates over the coming days and weeks. #forestry

The effects of Storm Arwen has been quite extensive at Cannock Chase Forest. There is widespread damage across all trails. So unfortunately we have extensive closures at the moment.
We have a team out working to clear the damage but anticipate that this will be several days work. They're working hard to get things back to normal as quickly as possible.

Open

• Carparks
• Café
• Bike Shop
• Christmas Trees
• Lady hill Area
• Concert Field
• Gruffalo Spotters
• Pedal and Play (Leaf section Closed)
• Play Area

Closed

• GoApe
• All Trails
• Fairoak
• Perry’s Trail
• Follow the Dog
• Monkey Trail
• Stile Cop
• Running Trails
• Fishing Pools
• Orienteering
• Tackeroo Camping
Thanks for bearing with us.

The presumption for dealing with multiple wind blow in publicly owned forests will and should be mechanised i.e. by harvesters. So the clear up may take some time.

Yeah would expect some serious kit getting deployed in many locations - and these are just the forests we’re paying attention to as they have trails. Every tree on the ground is potentially lost revenue, so they’ll have to get a shift on

On the FLS webinar tonight, the FLS man said most of the wind blow has no commercial value and will in fact cot them money to retrieve.

Urgh, hopefully there’s still incentive to move it quickly then

someone on a FB page posted up a summary of FLS meeting

 It Was pretty tough to listen to. Basically stay out of the forests.. FLS are a few weeks from knowing full extent of the damage. Most of the timber isn’t of any value and all the clean up where there’s been wind fall has to be done by machines no man and chainsaw. Money simply won’t be there to sort all of it. Need to wait a wee while to give FLS a chance fully assess the scope of the damage. The immediate focus is on property damage, power line damage and trapped people. FLS want to utilise the MTB community’s support but need to assess where that can be best put to use and obviously only when safe to do so. That will all take time. They will regularly communicate through Trail associations etc and let us know as soon as possible where it is ok to ride..

the FLS promised an update very soon

Had a mooch about Chopwell this afternoon. There are a lot of trees down on fire roads. Some are able to be bypassed, some are like the end of a game of Jenga.

Trail-wise, the east seems to be more affected, with the odd trails that are blocked that can be cleared with folding saws on the West.

Seemed like 50% uprooted pine, 25% pine/spruce etc where the trunk snapped and 25% other where boughs snapped.

It's bad, but luckily not as bad as it could've been. I'm sure new trails and new ways in to existing trails will appear, just like they do after logging.

From the FLS ditty above -

Most of the timber isn’t of any value

How bloody galling is that.

Not the best week for the missus to surprise me with a MTBing weekend she’s booked for my birthday at Glentress/Inners in 10 days. Don’t have the heart to tell her how bad it sounds.

Not the best week for the missus to surprise me with a MTBing weekend she’s booked for my birthday at Glentress/Inners in 10 days. Don’t have the heart to tell her how bad it sounds

@bighairydel Adrenalin uplift are saying that FLS have assessed and it doesn't look anywhere near as bad as feared on Plora side, hearing similar things about Golfie side too, so might be okay. There's still Gypsy glen, 3 brethren etc and a whole load of other really good natural riding.

@bruneep

On the FLS webinar tonight, the FLS man said most of the wind blow has no commercial value and will in fact cot them money to retrieve.

Bit of a moot point, but is that "it has no commercial value now it's blown over" or "it didn't have any commericial value before"?

Even the assessments and updates are going to be slow- harvester's clearing the roads, rangers are inspecting trails but that's a lot of trails and some aren't safely accessible. Then planning for chainsaw ops. The next trailfairies session's been cancelled just for safety and for not really being able to plan, so we're not going to get into actually fixing stuff (like root-plate damage) or light windfall clearance for a bit longer.

(as ever, this is me as a volunteer, I don't speak for the FC at all and I can be wrong)

Seems pretty obvious though that the focus will be on the busiest trails, and also the most accessible trails and easiest to reopen trails. And I think you can take it for granted that there'll be some long-term closures and some permanent closures though don't make too many assumptions about which or where because it's often not simple.

Lockdown giveth and Arwen taketh away 🙁

thenorthwind
Full Member

Bit of a moot point, but is that “it has no commercial value now it’s blown over” or “it didn’t have any commericial value before”?

Yeah for sure some of it will have had pretty marginal value anyway but at the same time a lot of it will be just not ready/not the right time to harvest.

Saw one - quite large - tree across the trails up Beecraigs (West Lothian) last weekend, went out for a spin today and it's already been cut out of the way. Excellent work to the park rangers.

@thenorthwind

Bit of a moot point, but is that “it has no commercial value now it’s blown over” or “it didn’t have any commericial value before”?

Both now I'd imagine.  he just said  "the wind blow has no commercial value and will in fact cost them money to retrieve."  Only he knows exactly what he meant, but from the rest of conversation it sounded they won't be in a hurry to retrieve/harvest. On the tress that have blown he did say the if the root ball is still attached to the ground the trees will continue to live. so the wood  wouldn't start to decline as quick as if it snapped at the base etc. Guessing the target markets for that timber require "fresh" wood as apposed to aged cut wood.

Bit of a moot point, but is that “it has no commercial value now it’s blown over” or “it didn’t have any commericial value before”?

My guess wood be (see what I did there🤣🤣🤣) that neat rows of standing trees are easy/cheap to harvest and lots of trees just strewn about the place are difficult/expensive. The wood may well be worth the same but if the costs of actually getting it out becomes higher than its value there's little incentive to do so.
And a fair few will probably be snapped and broken and probably worth less anyway, double whammy

https://dmbins.com/
If you are in Scotland it might be worth following dmbins for updates from FLS and others, probably via Facebook, Twitter etc

https://forestryandland.gov.scot/visit/activities/mountain-biking/7stanes

Again, Facebook and Twitter etc seem to be the way organisations wish to use to communicate

Spoke to an Ae village resident earlier and FLS have not made a start on road/trail clearances which isn`t a surprise.

A friend is a retired SSE employee and he has a son who has worked all the hours since Saturday. Dumfries and Galloway apparently has the largest percentage of overland power lines in Scotland and he has`t seen such devastation in all he working days!

Had a look over all our local trails today (Shropshire, near Shrewsbury) and pretty much every single one of them is going to be unrideable for a long time. One area that has numerous brilliant little trails is absolutely destroyed and I can’t see any of them ever being ridden again. The area is generally looked after by local authority wardens, but in reality, it’s usually people who live around here that clear trees from paths and trails. The current devastation is way beyond anyone except a large forestry operation, which doesn’t exist here. It’s certainly put a crimp on having mountain biking as a hobby and I’m more than a bit sad for my daughter, as we grab our bikes and head out for fun, local rides every week without fail, or did. It’s odd, as the village itself hasn’t really suffered much damage so it was shocking to see the state of the country parks.

I just hope all the trail centres and businesses who really need trails to survive manage to get through this, harsh times after the two years they have had.

Where I'm planning to dig this year, not a tree in sight!

@steamtb you could perhaps organise a whip-round for someone to come in and clear it? Don't give up.

Good idea @molgrips, but I’m guessing it’s 10’s of 1000’s if not lots more and the geography would make it impossible for large machinery without doing a huge amount more damage. I have messaged the wardens to see if they want volunteers as a starter for 10!

Well presumably you don't need the whole lot removed just parts of some?

We had a huge downed tree on one trail and someone just cut the middle out and left the rest. Not quite sure how, mind.

no-one gets hurt being a ‘have-a-go hero’

there was a bloke on the BBC news a day or two ago cutting a tree sat in a road which was >4ft, no chainsaw specific ppe at all, and the way he was wielding the saw made me wince. Just hacking away, plunging the saw out of sight on the opposite side of the tree, no stable platform to be stood on etc.

Yeah don't have a go yourself without extreme caution and even then only on really small stuff. Downed trees can be weighted and under great tension so many tons of timber can end up flying about explosively when the tension is released.

Anyone local to Hopton or bringewood able to say how the trails are around there?

Can confirm the (mainly treeless) main hill at Old Kilpatrick is running well. Some trees down in the Brown Hill woods where Spexy etc are located.

Can anyone suggest somewhere accessible from Glasgow that's running okay? We were thinking of going up Ben Ledi but the wind forecast isn't looking too good for anything higher up. #enduro style trails preferred.

Given the wind direction, Dunoon should be okay? Lots of the trails there are on previously harvested ground too. I've not been for ages though, tbh.

@grahamt1980 I'm semi local, Bringewood is in a very bad way according to one of the builders I know. Lots down and almost nothing was rideable. Hopton Pearce have said is closed, there's an uplift there next weekend (11th) and they've said there will be limited stuff available for that.

Thanks for the reply.
That's why i am asking about Hopton, I'm on the uplift but there doesn't seem like much point going if there are only bits of trail open.
Maybe cancel the uplift and head somewhere else then

@molgrips it’s mind boggling how many huge trees are down, on a 100 metre stretch I stopped counting at 20, often with multiples all tangled up. In the past, there have been several trees come down and it was easy enough for people to either turn them into cool jumps / drops or cut out a section. I’ve chatted to the wardens and hopefully they are organising volunteers at some point for the main bridleways, but they won’t be doing anything about the lesser used trails.

Even if the trails are not too bad, access to them may not be possible in event of things going wrong.

In Tweed Valley we are not going to send any mountain rescue resource into a forest unless escorted by FLS. The risk is too high. If it takes an hour until FLS can spare someone, then that will be an hour longer for help to arrive.

Anyone riding in forests that are shut are placing other people at risk.

Just follow Rule #1

A pretty good link from Dimbins on closures/openures. Comrie and Callendar Park are going to be busy!

https://dmbins.com/blog/storm-arwen-trail-update/?fbclid=IwAR0VV8XF2iYxZMqj2Ci78guFbuT7oWt2lflIjCF9J3G9KrRQEdnta1s6prw

@grahamt1980, I'd give pearce a call some time next week and see what they think. They'll give you an honest answer as to what limited means.

@steveh cheers, will do that

Been round Yair this afternoon/evening (on foot)
Someone has already been and chainsawed a load of stuff from Double Decker (big thanks if that was someone on here)
I had been intending to clear that if I could but not needed so went to Riley's instead and spent a few hours there. Some bits will need chainsawing so i left those as I don't have one but cleared away what I could and a load of smaller stuff so that whoever is chainsawing can just spend their time doing that and not fannying about with the little bits I can do.
The bit I saw didn't look too horrendous. DD has survived, almost intact, Riley's has a couple of uprooted trees where the roots have pulled up a section of trail but they've fallen in a such a way as to make pretty decent jumps. There's one big tree over the track which it would be possible to ride under, but whether that's deemed safe I don't know, could conceivably finish it's journey the ground just as someone goes underneath.
I've not seen the top parts yet though, no idea what it's like higher up.

@Northwind that DMBINS link mentions forest closures round Aviemore but I've yet to see any signage and, other than Clifftop at Inshriach, I've yet to encounter any new treefall. We've a local FB Trail Conditions group too and no updates coming through on that either. Mind you, it's not all FE land up here.

Gisburn now open again, sounds like a few diversions in place but basically functioning pretty much as normal.

@andrewh power folk were there on Sunday chopping some of the lower trees, right at end of raylees, don't know how they left it. Interested in hoes, saddle, sweaty and if they survived.
The road up lyndinny woods has a good few biggies over it which would make mrt access difficult.

Top of Hoes on Sunday just past where the doll is tied to the tree.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51727011363_034109b735_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51727011363_034109b735_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mNWskv ]There used to be a trail here. 😒[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/stu-b/ ]multispeedstu[/url], on Flickr

Walked down Sweaty and it's Ok apart from one small tree just after the rock/logs section. But them the bottom is totally blocked with several big trees.
Pushup track is also blocked at the top.

Just been sent this-

Sadly the situation is worse at Thrunton.
If you have not been past the forest we are seeing 90% of the north face of the forest at the main car park is flat.
Crews are unable to get into the forest to see the extent of the damage but there are 1000's of trees down, snapped tops and also 100's still hung up.
It will be months - not weeks before we will have a full assessment of levels of damage at Thrunton.
Whilst we know it will be frustrating in the coming weeks we must ensure everyone stays safe and we do not have emergency service call-outs.

Hamsterley Forest in County Durham seems to have missed the storm damage and also Whinlatter in the Lakes so why not have blast there and as soon as we can welcome you back to the Northumberland forests we wll.

Best wishes
Alex MacLennan
Forestry England
Recreation, Public Affairs Manager
Northumberland

We rode Gisburn on Sunday. Highlight was the newly maintained Hully Gully. Many areas unscathed, but the trails listed as closed on FB were in patches that had been smashed, and will need a great deal of work to recover.

Over the hill, Havoc Bike Park were sounding very pessimistic about their prospects.

Update on Innerleithen trails.

Latest update is that the harvester is currently in Traquair clearing the forest road of all windblown.

This will allow for emergency vehicle access, which in turn will make things safer to help with clearing bridal paths and trails.

FLS are still asking that riders and public stay out of the forest.

Some updates on Yair and Thorni:

Hey mate. I'd say thornie has come off the best. Fire Road is completely free. It's just the very top of turbo and over at high def that you need to walk around the fallen trees at the top to get to the tracks. The tracks I've rode/checked are totally ridable.
Yair is not accessible on the fire Road from peel. I've walked up the orange and 2/3rds are OK but the top start has gone for that and the black. Can't see it being fixed its soo many down.
The other side of yair if you park at the bride with lights is OK to pedal up the fire Road. You can get up the pushup but at the top it's a bit flattened. You can get around it though and get almost to a couple of trails. Il start a new entrance to these soon once it all settles down. The Traverse back along to the 3 brethren is fine and the two tracks off the path are sweet. I've not been down the footpath from the brethren yet to see the other black but I'm hoping its OK. Loads of work to do but totally savable.

You can get up the pushup but at the top it’s a bit flattened. You can get around it though and get almost to a couple of trails.

See my pic up there.^^

the two tracks off the path are sweet.

There were still a couple of pretty big trees across the main fireroad where Sweaty comes out on Sunday. These are also blocking the bottom of Sweaty

I might venture over again tomorrow at some point and have another look.

Cheers @pothead. Have seen pictures from Thrunton car park and further up the road. Pretty unrecognisable, but not surprising when you think about it: stand in the car park and you're looking out to the northeast across a big bit of open low-lying land. The wind coming up the hill there must have been insane, and those trees are the first thing it'll meet. Fingers crossed some stuff further in has survived.

Cut through Yair today and Ginger Mullet and Quarry are both clear.