TrainerRoad – STW approved sessions

Agree. Sweetpsot has enough supra threshold that TR reckon you can still race non-priority races through it so it must be fairly well rounded.

I’m starting it now. I did a ramp test today and FTP estimate has dropped by 6.5% since start of December. I’ve had time off bike for a couple of weeks and was a bit half hearted training to my last cx race anyway so maybe thats reasonable – any idea? Not sure whether to actually start next week and re-test then – now I remember what the test is like I feel I might get a bit higher.

cheers, why SSB2?

Depends how much time you have?  If you have time to do both SSB1 and SSB2 (12 weeks) then great.  If not and you have a good base then SSB1 could be considered pretty basic and so skipping straight to SSB2 might be a reasonable approach.  Alternatively I find it mildly amusing how many VO2 max type things there are in SSB2 (given it’s name) and so if you’ve never used a trainer before might be best to start at the beginning…..

You’ve only got 6 weeks and I feel SSB2 is just enough harder than 1 but you should be able to manage it. Now if you were going to carry on after that and move onto build I’d say go back to SSB1 but are you more likely to see spring and summer and just enjoy riding outside?
For a 6 week boost either would help mind. Even if it’s part psychological as well as acclimating to being on a bike again and working.

I guess it depends if you need the VO2 component or not for what you’re doing.

I assumed that the VO2 intervals in SSB were an introduction/prep for an upcoming build period.

Forgot about the amount of V02 max. It was a lot less the previous year but it got changed about 2 months ago.

SSB1 may be better.

hard to say. how much does xc skiing 3 times a week cross over to cycling? fitness as such isnt a big worry, its cycling fitness i guess. either ss1 or 2 I’m sure will be beneficial

@sweaman i fly out to finale april 7th, then yes when i come back it will ne outdoor cycling.

thanks all

My hunch (based on sweamrs who Nordic skis a lot in winter) is that doing a reasonable mix of classic and skate will mean you’re already getting both base endurance (classic) and VO2 (skate) so it’s really about getting the legs used to going in circles in which case either plan probably works fine.  I would say that if you’re still going to be doing things like an evening skate session some of the VO2 max stuff in SSB2 might be a bit much.  TrainerRoad sort of assumes that’s all you’re doing and if that isn’t the case then you could find yourself doing a lot.

I do a lot of sweet spot training currently just to maintain cycling cardio as I’ve found trying to do “hard” workouts on top of other winter activities is just too much.

Did bald knob fasted this morning. Long time since I’d done a fasted workout and had forgotton how hungry you feel. Even though it was only an hour endurance the last 20 minutes were painful

so, mrs new job and school hols mean ive jumped back the trainer, i can usually manage an hour early on,

figured id use this time to do some structured sessions

so first i did a 4DP Sufferfest Job and got the following

1063w 5s
437w 1m
315w 5m
256w 20m

said i was a sprinter relative to FTP, weakness was Vo2 efforts,

so over the last 14 days I’ve done 7 of the Vo2 sessions and 1 outdoor ride,

i think i have a case of turbo legs, in the fact that it maybe takes a couple of sessions on the turbo to get into that turbo groove,

so i feel the numbers are too low, mainly the FTP, was interrupted today for an hour doing ISLAGIATT – did the first 45 minutes, so instead of finishing, i did the EPIC KOM climb on zwift, and i did 311w for 20 minutes, obviously i was pushing against the gradient instead of the flat, and i hadn’t done a 5 min max test, although had done the earlier turbo session

so should i manually adjust, retest or trust the numbers in the software I’m using

Bit of an art to ftp tests – can’t remember how the Sufferfest does it so could be low if you’ve not used a trainer in a bit

Epic KOM on zwift always gives me high wattage but I’m quite often grinding out a gear in a way that doesn’t represent my riding really

7 vo2 sessions in 14 days is probably too much to start with so you will feel jaded

I’d start with a couple of good interval sessions each week. Start with your suggested ftp and retest early?

Did my first early morning (well first TrainerRoad) workout this morning – Mount Field. I was up at 5am, had got my bibshorts and socks ready to go (trainer is inside the house so don’t bother with a top – too hot and no one to see me!). I had made a cold milky coffee last night ready to drink (I just forgot the sugar) and ate a banana during the warm up. Didn’t have any issues with the workout and was don’t by 6.10am and at work by 7am so a pretty good way to start the day.

I have always done workouts in the evenings before but it can be hard to find motiviation after a long day! Seemed to work well so looking forward to the next one.

This is my first workout from Zwift to TrainerRoad as I found the training plans on Zwift less than ideal. The calendar feature on TrainerRoad and being able to swap sessions seems ideal.

First ramp test tonight to lead into winter training and a push to gain 29watts. I hope it’s still 29watts after the ramp test :0/

Planning on trying to do Tuesday session early morning from next week and then out on the MTB on the night and take Wednesday off. Following SSBase low with added outside stuff and maybe extra sessions to match up closer with the medium plan from a TSS point of view.
Chucking in a Zwift race every week as well if possible.

The calendar function is very good and the ability to slide plans in and out and shove weeks around is excellent.

I’m planning on starting to use TR a bit mroe now as light is fading and I spend enouh time cleaning bikes on the wekened to want to do too much of that in the week! Dade -1 for me this morning which was a bit of an effort, howevr I was guestimating watt levels based on feel. I did a ramp test a couple of weeks back but really strugged and had dropped my FTP by about a third from last winter; I subsequently realised that I am prety suee the trainer was set on a higher level to what is pluged into the trainerroad software. Think I am goign to assume I was hitting 120% FTp on the intervals to reset FTP for the next week before I have time to do another ramp test weeka fter next

Dropping ftp by a third sounds a bit extreme ferrals – you’d need to have taken a year off out on the ale to see that sort of decrease surely? Can’t be accurate.

Still throwing the occasional TR session in – find them hard to schedule with the cross season, but they’re good for race-empty weekends. Some of the intervals on the cross plan are sharp, start to hit 0.9IF and it’s a proper effort.

OK, more of a question than a “look what session I’ve done” – I’ve been majoring on long distances in the last couple of years but I feel both my top end speed (such as it was) and my overall power have dropped. I’ll still be focussed on distance but want to get my power up.

What would be the best training plan or plans to follow? Assume I’ve got about 8 months to put this into effect over winter and in to next spring. I’ll also be doing rides outdoors so each needs to match the other.

I would start with one of the general base plans – good mix of temp/SS stuff and longer rides which you can do outside.

Me, I did a 5hr ride on the turbo at a steady 65% FTP – got average power and normalised power to within 1w but it really tested the mental side!

Short power build will give you two V02max workouts, sometimes three each week.
I’d probably stick with one or two (per week) – skip the third – general riding instead
I presume your base is fine so not much point to starting with the base plans, plus they can be a bit boring. I generally find it easier to concentrate on harder indoor workouts

My base is fine – I can do 100 milers comfortably in 6hrs30 or so, that’s with 2500m of climbing – nowt flat around here!

Given it’s so long since I logged in to TrainerRoad it will be interesting to see what’s changed to compete with Zwift. @tomlevell talks about moving things around in the calendar which wasn’t available when I last used it.

Yeah, the calendar’s really good. I’ve been slacking off since doing JOGLE in July, and have just had a vasectomy so it’ll be a week or two before I get back on it. I have three free trial codes if anyone wants one BTW.

@whitestone – I’d be bit wary of heading into one of the build plans if you haven’t done much turbo stuff for a while. While each workout can be fine in isolation in the build plans, it can be a lot to take if you pile them up one after the other. I came to TR from a similar position to you with a high confidence in my base (similar 100mile times/elevations) and got my arse handed to me by a build plan. Sweet spot and VO2max are hard if you’re not used to them.

If you’ve got the whole 8 months then a whole base/build/specialty cycle should work wonders. If you’re bashing out 100 milers then the base/sustained power/century plan won’t make you a sprinter but should boost your fitness across the board.

Most (maybe all) of the workouts have an outdoor version now that you can do with power or RPE. I did some of the crit speciality workouts outside this summer and it was great. I was using an interval timer app on my phone and the lap button on my Wahoo to keep track. If you have a Wahoo or one of the newer Garmins then you can send the workout to that and follow it outside. Haven’t tried any sweetspot type stuff for that yet.

I’m planning on Sweet spot base 1 & 2 then Short Power Build then Crit (or maybe road race).

Hmmm. Self assessed 8 weeks ago at 300w. I was finishing group rides of 1h15 with >300w NP so it felt a good guess.

Then I followed Sustained Power Build mid-volume fairly closely, which has done great things for me in the past.
My final proper workout was a 2h SST ride with over 90mins at 275w.
I matched the recovery week hours and TSS almost spot on although I did switch to my mtb.

Starting SSB1 this week. Did my first Ramp Test for over a year tonight and discovered I’ve trained myself -20w back to 280!
I could have blamed the test but did a Zwift Race afterwards and my 60m NP was 279w!

I’m not too worried as I’m aiming for Ride London so tons of time but can’t help feeling it might be a bad day.

Not sure whether to do Thursdays workout at 300 or 280. After what I’ve been doing, it seems crazy easy at 280.

I’d be tempted to re-do ramp test on Thursday to double check – you can always tack another tr ride on afterwards to boost TSS.

@Garry_Lager – based on the two races I’ve done so far I’m certain not that much less fit, though not as fit as I used to be. I think the test was wrong for a range of reasons, not least doing it the morning after a long travel day after a zero excersize holiday. Will redo week after next I think, for now I’ve estimated it as virtual power ftp of 285 (based on taking an average of my vo2 max interval vp and then assuming I was doing it at 120%). the recent test gave me 212 whereas in Jan I was vp-ftp of 315, so it’s probably a reasonable starting point as I don’t want to retest now.

Or do the 8 min or 20 min test aiming at whatever you’d need to be 300 watt FTP.

Anyway I need 37watts now :0(
Mind makes the next 6 weeks easier :0)

Well, finished the first week of SSB1 with it set it left on 300w easily enough. In fact, HR was probably a little on the low side at times. So happy to chalk it up to a bad day.

Don’t first week of SSB1 LV and started the 2nd week this morning at 5am! I will replace the weekend ride with an outside ride of approx. 40 miles (weather permitting) on Sunday morning. I am enjoying the workouts – it is nice to have some focus and the drills are good – individual leg drills this morning which was really tough but by the second set I was starting to get the hang of it!

The 5am starts are actually OK as well. It is only an hour early and means that when I get home I can dedicate time to the family and focus better on the workout as well. So win all round really!

Just went to subscribe again for myself and daughter and had a shock at price now, gonna cost approx. £33 a month for both of us!!!

Not been following a plan, but have been using TR a fair bit recently from a cyclocross perspective. Need to decide on a hard hour work-out for tomorrow. Currently thinking wynne or stripped. Any other CX workouts people enjoy? I’m shying away from doing something like Megantic – but maybe that is an indication I should do it!

Well I restarted my subscription a couple of weeks ago – I’ve just started on week 3 of SSB1 LV. The ramp test is new to me and surprisingly I’d only dropped 17 Watts since I’d last tested nearly four years ago, but that test was the 20min version so there might be a bit of variance.

My plan is to do SSB 1 & 2 then General Build then XC Marathon, all low volume then I can do outside rides at the weekend rather than replace one of the mid volume workouts. Consensus on the TR forums is that it’s better to choose a lower volume plan and add to it than skip workouts from a higher volume plan. @robbo1234biking – I used the calendar to move all my workouts one day forward as that fits better with what I want to do. It just happens that the main events I want to ride fall on or just after the recovery weeks for each plan.

@ferrals – all three of those are in the CX speciality plan and all look, errm, interesting! Have you looked at the maintenance plans – talk about hard work, lots of workouts with IF of 0.9 and higher. Anyway I’ve got Carson to do today.

Ansel Adams if you’re in the mood to show the turbo who’s boss, ferrals. Striped is good as well.
Depends on your power profile – I can deal with high intensity, short intervals better. I find stuff like hurd (3 min intervals at 120% IIRC) really hard.

@whitestone – thnaks I hadnt seen the maintneance plan before being tucked away in enthusiast, some savage ones in there! I am on a bit of a panic training week with my first crack at a Natiaonl trophy coming up in a couple of weeks.

@Garry_Lager Ansel Adams could be a go… or at least the -1 versioN! Not really sure what my power profile is tbh.

Thanks @whitestone.

I am into Week 2 of SSBLV2. I had a small percentage FTP increase from SSBLV1 to 2 (5W) but also lost weight so a 10% gain in the w/kg. I was in the Lakes 2 weeks ago for a family holiday and repeated some of the hills I did on the Jennride in the summer but found it so much easier. My fitness massively improved over where I was 6 months ago. Yesterday I did a 5am low intensity workout and once my son was in bed did a VO2 repeats workout which I was able to complete. I also did a 1hr 30min with 50min of threshold workout at the weekend and again was able to do it without issues. I also have a couple of jelly babies in the intervals which seems to help me (and is a very cheap way to fuel the ride – I think it was mentioned in the podcast or similar).

if my next couple of workouts go well then I may ramp test again in a week or so as I did my ramp test on the Sunday after the holiday so wondering it I under-tested and my FTP could be a bit low for the workouts.

I have signed up for Mountain Mayhem next year so that is what I am building towards with the winter Jennride in January and then the summer Jennride after Mountain Mayhem. I am hoping to use this as a development year and lose a lot of weight but really enjoying the process so far. Feel it is more rewarding than Zwift as well.

Reading the blurb about the various plans it seems that the real FTP gains are in the build phase and SSB 1 & 2 are mainly preparation for that so you shouldn’t expect to see much of a rise at the start of SSB2 unless you were pretty unfit to begin with.

@ferrals – you can view your power profile by going to Career -> Personal Records. You get a graph showing your power output for times from 1 second to 2 hours (possibly more), there’s a sprint and an endurance chart.

I’ve moved back to Sufferfest for this season, really liking all the yoga and strength vids. 4DP test is much harder than the TR ftp tests I’ve done in the past, also interesting to get 4 numbers to work on not just ftp. Seems I’m weakest on 1 min power which I kind of knew.

You’ve also got to bear in mind that the suggestion is it takes 6 weeks for gains to manifest from training. IMO it’s less if you haven’t done structured consistent training before.
Just started week 1 of SSB2 and using low volume this year with stuff tagged on. Gained a massive 4 watts but that’s not the whole story so I’m happy.

@robbo1234biking I wouldn’t worry about it. You might have a really good day and gain more watts then suffer and fail loads of sessions. You’ve identified you are going better anyway so it’s working.

Cheers @whitestone – I think I’ve not used TR enough consistently recently to get a good power profile, it is a bit all over the shop!

Decided on Wynne tonight as I think it requires less mental strenght than ansel adams and I’m tired, then Ansel Adams on Saturday.

I have three races on the trot 24th Nov, 1st Dec, 8th Dec and then thats the end of my cx season except for a couple fof racves I might do in the New Year. I’m now thinking there is no point after this week in doing anything other than taoer type weeks, as I’m not realistiaclly going to bulid fitness now that will benefit any of thesse races – despite needing too 🙂 Does that sound riht from a training point of view?

I’ve just subscribed to TrainerRoad. I’m trying to avoid my usual winter habit of disappearing into a cloud of Doritos dust and IPA fumes as soon as the clocks change and then coming out the other side in March wondering why I’m 10kg heavier.

I’ve done the Ramp Test and a couple of work outs, 45 minutes of “Cartwright” was brutal I think I’ve worked out my max heart rate! My plan is to do a couple more stand alone workouts to get used to the app and using the turbo and then do one of the base build plans.

I’m using a dumb trainer (an ancient Minoura rim drive), a speed and cadence sensor and an HR strap. I’ve jut set the app up with the power map for the closest trainer I could find.

I’m pretty sure the power reading will be out by a fair margin but as long as they are consistently out and I see an improvement then I guess that’s a lot more important than the actual number.

The only number I’m really worried about is measured in kg rather then W anyway!

@richmtb – look at the intensity factor (IF) for each workout, IME anything 0.90 and above is hard so no wonder you found Cartwright hard going. I’d filter the workouts just to show the Sweet Spot ones, these should be tough but not so tough you don’t feel as if you can’t finish them. Choosing a workout from one of the SS base plans is probably best.

If you can’t finish a sweet spot workout then your FTP might be a little high so drop it by maybe 5% and try again. Like you say, it doesn’t really matter what the actual number is, you just need it at the right level so that each workout is targeting the correct physiological response. If you are using a “wheel on” turbo then make sure each session is using identical settings – so same tyre pressure, same resistance settings on the turbo, etc.

As someone commented to me earlier in the thread: don’t go straight to the build phase, do both parts of the base phase first. While relatively easy they do prepare you for the extra stress of the build phase. Depending on how much time you have go for either Low or Medium volume. I do the LV as I can always add workouts and it leaves time for weekend rides.

@whitestone – Thanks for the advice.

I did finish Cartwright just, the third interval nearly broke me though.
I’ve added the Base Build 1 LV to my calendar, I just need to make sure I put the work in now.

My other issue is having never really done any road cycling I struggle to stay seated for an hour, bits of me go numb. It might be the cheap liner shorts I’m using, something with a better pad will probably help. It might be I need to tweak the saddle position ever so slightly or I might just need more actual saddle time.

Its not something I’ve ever had an issue with on the mountain bike but then I’d be surprised if I’ve ever spent more than 15 minutes sat down without getting out the saddle when I’m out on the trails.