Forgot to say.

When choosing plans look at the power profiles of the intervals in each workout and try and match those to what you want to do. An example would be Bondcliff in Short Power Build – the description mentions “race starts” but a short power surge followed by a sustained effort is just what you want when faced with a short technical section on a climb. Something like the Criterium Speciality plan takes that further with lots of efforts interspersed with “not quite rests” so even though it’s aimed at city centre road racing it’s quite a good fit for the short repeated efforts needed in mountain biking.

Is there a “TrainerRoad For Dummies” guide anywhere? I’ve been doing Sufferfest daily since lockdown started here 45 days ago, and it’s certainly been helping (FTP now 120% of what it was prior to start!) but I wonder if a proper plan might not be more effective. And reading things like “There’s another dip at -28 just after this which is when I did Washington+4 and Fish-2 on successive days” is pure gibberish to me 🙂

Aagh! typed a big long reply then got a “502 bad gateway” and lost it all.

Go to trainerroad.com and there’s a lot there. This link *should* be public – https://www.trainerroad.com/app/career/bobw/calendar so you can see what a plan looks like. You won’t be able to click through to the actual workouts, you have to be signed up to do that but you might be able to view the workouts I’ve already done.

The “Washington+4” bits are workout names in Trainerroad. The -28 refers to a metric in Training Peaks/intervals.icu that tracks fitness, fatigue and form. Form being the difference between fitness and fatigue and in my instance was at -28 which won’t mean anything unless you can view the graph with it on and know that the theory behind it all says that -30 is the borderline of overtraining.

mogrimm – I have a free month of trainerroad I can give to you. It is actually very simple. You can use something called plan builder to input a few variable and answer questions about you and it will build a plan for you dependin on how much time you have available and your experience of interval training. I am happy to help but would recommend taking the month trail and doing Sweet Spot Base training plan (volume dependent on how much time you have available).

It really does make the training simple and beyond this you can geek out as much as you want.

I’ve got some freebies to give away too.

Done a couple of group workouts with a friend. Good motivator but not what I’d want to do everytime. Ramp Test would be a good one as a Group workout for me.

Reset mine to SSB1 although haven’t actually done much of it. Loads and loads of Z2 on Zwift and some racing and the odd TR session. Plan is to start SSB2 and do Tuesdays session and probably the Saturday one and race or ride around that.

@mogrim – I *think* you can have a play with TR’s plan builder without subscribing: https://www.trainerroad.com/plan-builder

It will let you put in a few parameters about goals/experience/time available and put together something for you to follow.

FWIW, I’ve been using TR for years and I still glaze over when people start naming the workouts or talking about their own metrics. I don’t think an understanding of these is needed to have success.

I just did a ramp test, then selected Enduro training plan with an random August date as the end goal to work towards.

So far really impressed.

Much better than Zwift / Sufferfest etc for me personally.

Thanks for the replies, I’ll take a look into it 🙂

Been using trainerroad for a while now using virtual power via an elite fluid wheel on turbo trainer. I can keep things fairly consistent as I have an old bike set up on it permanently in the shed meaning even if the power readings are way off they should be fairly consistent, session by session.

Curiosity is getting the better of me and I’d like to train using more accurate power measurements. My initial thoughts were to look at direct drive smart trainers but then I thought of a crank arm power meter from 4iiii, stages or Avio. This would be significantly cheaper than a new turbo trainer and given I’ve got ANT+ stick already I’m assuming the power readings would sync to trainerroad.

Does anyone use a similar set up and care to comment on the power meters I mentioned? Thanks.

I’ve a 4iiii power meter. Easy to setup/calibrate. I’m assuming it’s consistent but I’ve nothing to compare it against! No need to get Ultegra just to match, the 105 works just as well and is cheaper!

Gave “lower” values, by about 20%, than virtual power so if you swap mid-plan then you’ll need to retest to get things into alignment otherwise you’ll be training at some weird level.

Since it’s measuring closer to the power input there’s less reliance on having the tyre pressures and turbo resistance exact for every session – I’ll use the resistance adjustment to find the sweet spot for cadence as my FTP improves.

Cheers Whitestone, sounds promising. I’m not tempted by Zwift as TR gives me what I need, plus the shed has no WiFi to use my laptop, which I think Zwift needs, whereas TR doesn’t.

Another reason I’m keen on a power meter is the the fluid in the turbo warming up during a session and later efforts being easier (may also be due to me being warmed up, but I do think it’s an issue). With a powermeter this would be eradicated.

I went virtual power -> power meter (stages in my case) -> smart trainer and by far the most profound improvement was the power meter. Not least because I could use it outside too. The other main advantage was the trainer warm-up thing you mention – you can keep lots of things consistent in your set up but it’s pretty hard to keep the temperature the same.

As above, you’ll need to re-test. My FTP was 80w higher on the power meter.

Nice one – don’t we all love an FTP test!

Anyone used the Avio power meter? It’s by a long way the cheapest.

Stevious +1

I’ve just gone from power meter + dumb trainer to smart trainer and whilst the upgrade is nice I’m not sure it’s necessary.

Hi folks,

I’ve been waiting and waiting until I’m ‘ready’ to start training again, but then noticed that Trainerroad offers ‘traditional base’ which is aimed at people coming back form injury. This would build nicely towards Sweetspot Base before doing alternating build/speciality blocks until my event next year.

Question though – is traditional base much better than just putting in lots of gentle hours outdoors? I don’t want to be tied to the trainer or the rollers just as we come into summer. Should I just keep doing the hours and go straight into sweetspot base?

How much of the base plans could be usefully done outdoors with only a heartrate monitor?

Ta

(somebody on here very generously gave me a free trial which I’ve yet to use, saving it for when I’m ready to start in earnest!).

Unless 60-150mins of Z1/2 on a turbo appeals then I’d do the equivalent outdoors especially given the fine weather. I struggle with the 60min version of them TBH but am fine with 75 & 90min workouts that have multiple efforts and some variety.

You can send a TR workout to Garmin and Wahoo units for outdoor rides. There’s a couple of posts on their Blog about outdoor workouts – https://blog.trainerroad.com/?s=outside

I wouldn’t do continual Build-Speciality blocks – speciality plans are intended to be the last block before an event and are deliberately intense and have a long taper. The general TR recommendation is to do repeated Base-Build cycles. In the case of Sweet Spot Base, the first block is mostly getting you into the swing of things with various drills, the second part is where the fun starts so Base-Build really means SSB-Pt2 then Build and repeat. Only do a speciality when you are approaching your event.

Their full Sweet Spot Base, Build, Speciality sequence takes 26 weeks so worth taking that into consideration.

Even if you aren’t signed up yet you can have a play around with TR’s Plan Builder, you just can’t save the results.

I’m currently doing a Speciality plan, well doing it badly more like, since previously I never got much past halfway through Build before summer arrived and I abandoned the turbo for outdoors. One of my events might happen in August so I’ve got a plan from Plan Builder for that then I’ll do the Base-Build-repeat into the back end. I’ll try some of the other Build plans that I’d normally shy away from just to see what they are like.

Ok good advice, it seems unrealistic to stick to a full year plan anyway, have an entire year to play with (aiming for Raid Pyrenean next summer).

Can do another few more weeks ‘traditional’ base then do a big block of basic HR sweetspot outdoors, have some nice long TT courses lined up.

A big appeal of Trainerroad is that it works well with my Kinetics trainer, can warm up and perform spin down callibration, so I could be a bit more accurate with my intervals.

bump, anyone want a free month? message me

Has anyone had much success with the low volume plan? I appreciate I won’t build and maintain fitness the way I used to but I don’t think I have time for the mid-volume, would rather end up doing more if I have time than skipping workouts I think

I have mainly done LV and upped my FTP 60W (225ish up to 284 at my peak this summer). I am about 10W down at the moment as I had a bit of an offseason but just starting up for next year now. I do do other rides outside of that (such as Zwift races etc) so that will contribute as well but the structure really brings on the gains for me.

As long as you have an accurate FTP you should improve/maintain the fitness you have got. I normally expect a decent bump in FTP when I restart TR in the autumn. My fitness drops after the summer til I decide to do something about it. Last year I bumped up about 10% on SSBLV.

I’ve only ever done the low volume plans (along with a mix of general riding and other sports).  Looking at the plans the low volume has less workouts but they are either as hard or harder than the mid-volume equivalents.

The one and only time I’ve trained consistently in the last few years it was all low volume but I did SSB1, SSB2 General Build and MTB Marathon (Training for BCBR).  My ftp went from 265 to 315.

I agree it also feels better to add on the odd extra ride than be constantly skipping sessions.  It’s not quite winter yet but I’ll be SSB1 and then (perhaps) a few low intensity fasted rides in the morning as well.

Cheers- low volume it is. I’m going to start in the next week or two. I’ll also be doing some outside rides and running

Yes I go low volume and it worked from end September to early December. I was throwing in a Zwift race on the Wednesday as well which was full on for 40minutes. 3 days most weeks midweek hard was probably too much and contributed to being tired then ill from early December.
Similar plan for this year but intending to get outside more regularly than the last few winters and maybe not doing Tuesday to Thursday full on ;0)

I’ve done a full cycle (sic) of the plans and stuck to Low Volume except for the Speciality which I did Mid Volume and that felt much harder especially if I was doing weekend rides as well. Remember that recovery is just as important as the workouts. I went from 240W to 266W (though I think it’s a bit low and need to do another test).

Psychologically better to do the Low Volume and add workouts or rides than do the Mid Volume plans and skip workouts.

You can also elect to do workouts outside if you’ve terrain suited to the particular workout, you just send the data to your Garmin or Wahoo.

@whitestone – yes I used outside rides for an entire mid-vol base plan this spring when lockdown made the local roads so quiet. It was probably the best training I’ve ever done, but then I didnt progress to build as i didnt believe (correctly as it turns out!) there would be a cx season.

Plan now is to re-start base in low volume with the hope there will be a mountain bike season next year, or at least to keep things ticking over.

After giving Zwift and it’s plans a go I realised that I much prefer TrainerRoad so I’m back on it now.

Currently three weeks in to the LV Sweetspot Plan and feel like I’m getting some benefit from it, time will tell.

The ideal set up for me seems to be TR running on the TV or laptop with Eurosport Player wathcing either the CX racing or replays of Classics.

Anyone else still using TR or has everyone moved over to Zwift?

Still on TR. I started back on it in Oct 2019 and due to breaking my collarbone last January and then lockdown I carried it on all year. Not a fan of Zwift.

I’ve been doing some of the workouts outside recently, surprising just how accurate my estimate via FTP was – assuming Strava’s estimate of power is accurate.

I have a subscription to TR and zwift atm so am about to start a TR block using the zwift environment, see how it goes. I’m hoping not commuting by bike will make it easier to focus on the training – my aim is time-trialling later in the year.

When did TR become £20? I went to have another look at it tonight but it’s shot up in price.

I like it, a lot, but it’s either Zwift or TR for me at that price…

I’m still trickling on but barely using it. I really like it and rate it but I’m not doing anything structured at the moment so am picking a randon work-out once a week or so when I havent done any other exercise for a while.

I tink I’ll start a low vol plan soon, but I’m unsure whether to spend a month doing some higher zone work as I’ve doen nothin but base stuff all year as i’ve been ticking voer wondring if/when we’ll race again. I’m dubious about any mtb so guess am aiming for cx september 2021 but half the time think that is optimistic!

When did TR become £20? I went to have another look at it tonight but it’s shot up in price.

I like it, a lot, but it’s either Zwift or TR for me at that price…

Think it’s pretty easy to knock up an interval program yourself in zwift so seems to only be one winner there.

I’m paying $20, so just under £15 at current exchange rates. TR have stated that they’ll grandfather your subscription if you stay with them and don’t stop/start from year to year. Of course that only makes sense, financial or otherwise, if you keep using it year round.

Just checked in a different browser that I’ve not logged in to TR with and it give the cost as 20 dollars not 20 pounds.

Sorry, you’re right. $20 a month, so in a post Brexit world about £19 😉

I’m sure it wouldnt take much to subscribe to trainerroad for x1 month and note all the workouts for your chosen plan. Depends on your ethics I suppose…

There’s a reason Trainerroad won’t let you export their workouts into the likes of Zwift and Trainingpeaks. These monthly subscriptions are getting a bit crazy though! Everything is a subscription service these days

That’s been done a few times, in some cases not so subtly as whoever did it copied the whole workout description text verbatim!

I’ve heard there’s a bit of bad blood between the founders of a couple of those so that integration isn’t likely.

Subscription was always the way things would head once a reliable distribution channel, i.e. high speed broadband, was widespread. Why stick with the cost of boxed software and intermittent payments when you can get a steady income stream? Updates “just happen” without needing more boxes being shipped, etc. Of course for us the consumer it means we have to pick and choose what we want.

I think the TR guys must accept that their plans are widely available without people having to pay their subscription for months on end. I think they purposely make some of their workouts difficult to replicate in other software though in the hope that people won’t bother and will just stick to using their software / subscription. For example a number of sweetspot workouts continuously ramp up and down between 88% – 94%. Likewise with some of their over / under workouts would be a pain to copy.

The more I think about it the more I think their main selling point is the user software / tools / app rather than the actual plans themselves. Their software and apps make the plans easy to execute hence why people stay subscribed.

There’s always going to be people share/copy the TR plans, that’ll never stop.

Personally I’ll stick with TR as it just works. The last thing I want to be doing is messing around with setting up various apps if I don’t need to, the fact that I also don’t need a good internet connecton is a bonus as it’s something else that can’t go wrong!

Slightly unrelated, what’s people’s opinions on doing back to back days on the sweetspot plans? I did a 90 minute session yesterday and am due to do a 60 minute session tomorrow. Due to work I was going to do tomorrows session today then have a couple of rest days before my next session.

Good idea or bad idea??

Yes using both TR for workouts Zwift for racing and noodling around.
TR far better for tranining in my experience of both.
SSB1 in Nov/Dec 6w increase. Stuff over 3/4 weeks of Xmas 5w increase (may have waxed my chain…) Due to not doing structure and impending events pushed back going back to SSB1 again to work through SSB2 then see what Spring throws out.

Slightly unrelated, what’s people’s opinions on doing back to back days on the sweetspot plans? I did a 90 minute session yesterday and am due to do a 60 minute session tomorrow. Due to work I was going to do tomorrows session today then have a couple of rest days before my next session.

Good idea or bad idea??

I’ve done it fairly regularly – my work is outdoors and at this time of year it’s hit and miss as to which days are dry enough to do it so I’ll move the workouts around to fit in with that. I don’t think I’d do VO2max workouts back to back but anything below threshold should be fine. Also on the podcasts, one of TR’s coaches Jonathan Lee states he pretty much permanently does his mid-week workouts as a block.

Also TR don’t just throw the workouts and plans out there and that’s that. Their CEO said on one podcast that they’d 90 million completed workout logged on their system. That’s a lot of data available for analysis. They do monitor how we all perform on the workouts and adjust things accordingly. The plans have certainly changed in the last few years so whereas you might have had workouts A, B & C in a week, they spotted that people were regularly failing to complete C but only when it followed A & B and not D & E so they swapped C for C-1 in that instance. They’ve also said they analyse when people pause workouts or back pedal to get a breather or adjust the intensity – presumably this leads to rest intervals increasing or one less effort in a block or something like that.

There have been hints/rumours of the workouts and plans becoming dynamic with some form of AI adjusting things to help you keep on track. Might just be a wind up though!