TrainerRoad – STW approved sessions

Nice work ferrals 😀

Babies sleep most of the time so set up a baby monitor in front of the turbo and you’ll be fine 🙂

Easy week here this week after 3 harder ones. Much needed with a sore throat picked up from the kids. I now also know why they’ve both been complaining of stomach ache… which made for a couple of worrying moments on last nights long turbo 😳

I probably shouldn’t mention the Z word on this thread but did a group ride last night organised by Andrew Talansky. Pretty cool riding up the mountain with the man himself on my wheel 🙂

Good one ferrals. I did Eclipse yesterday as well, found it tough enough despite having a normal amount of sleep and no new baby!

base 1 & 2 done, just starting second week of general build. Official FTP not going up much from before xmas but I had a really bad test last week after the rest week. Just couldn’t get going, felt awful and heart rate down about 8 bpm on previous tests, but managed to record the same power despite that – so I guess I may be improving on a good day. I did the first week of the build plan at about 103% with no problems, so I may be getting stronger. Certainly feel pretty good on the bike and sitting just below 4.5 w/kg at the moment, I think my fantasy of getting to 5 w/kg is not going to happen unless I lose 6kg!

@franko, it is a horrible one, I foolishly think all sub threshold sessions will be easy and then get a shock 😥

@gray,kryton,mrblobby, Thanks 8)

ferrals, your post on the other thread about weight got me curious so had a look at the stw team on TR. Your w/kg is ridiculous, good work 8)

Edit… First baby coincided with a running injury for me. Spent a year shell socked, not exercising, eating lots of bad stuff to try and stay awake during the day. Got back on the bike 11kg heavier and my first 8 min TR test came out over 110W less than it is now. You have been warned 😉

Dont believe it for a second! Its virtual power so I have no idea where it is in reality. If it really was that I’d not be sitting in a office at the moment! I also haven’t ammended weight for the christmas / newborn eating binge 😳

I’m actually thinking about paying to do a proper fitness test to get a real number for power to weight – a bit sad as it wont be much use but I’d like to know!

edit in response to your edit 😆 – Thats why I’m trying not to stop training at all. We are eating too much instant food and cake/biscuits, but I think thats ok for the first month or so then I’ll start eating better again.. I’ve always struggled with sleeping before races so training sleep deprived will probably pay dividends 😆

ferrals, if you were a bit closer I’d lend you PM for some testing 🙂

Thats why I’m trying not to stop training at all.

It’s easily doable, was a bit more motivated with racing when we had our second child, I think I missed a day or two’s training 🙂

I’ve always struggled with sleeping before races so training sleep deprived will probably pay dividends

It would be nice if there was some benefit to this, like there is with fasted training, unfortunately I don’t think there is 🙁 Funny reading stuff about not training when tired or with elevated HR, if I didn’t do this I’d probably have not trained for a year or two!

but I think thats ok for the first month or so

Lol, you’ll learn… you’ll be grabbing anything that can be stuffed down in 30 seconds. There are however a lot more “naked” or “raw” snack bars etc about now than I could find 8 years ago, so try to fill your Kitchen cupboard with those every week.

I also found good soups like the Covent Garden soups / Supermarket own versions which pretty good low cal / quick options.

Basically, quality over quantity in the “reach for” stakes…

funny you should mention soup, been living off the Yorkshire provender ‘naturally skinny’ chicken and veg soup which is really nice, easy and healthy. Sadly been complementing it by lemon drizzle cake and Stilton (not together 😆 )

I’ve always struggled with sleeping before races so training sleep deprived will probably pay dividends

It would be nice if there was some benefit to this, like there is with fasted training, [/quote]

Lateral thinking chaps! I definitely benefitted from getting used to operating on next to no sleep. For a while I was ‘happily’ getting up at 0430 to get some hours in – some days to get in early to work, others to ride the long way in (~4 hours). There’s no way I could have done that pre-children. Embrace the sleep deprivation, consider it the new normal, then you’ll have some extra hours each day forever!

I’m currently waiting to see my surgeon chap. Ho hum.

Bit of a training update, I’ve been following sweet spot low volume for about 7 weeks now.

I find that this gives me a structured plan for the dark nights on my rollers whilst leaving me fresh enough to for a couple more sessions on the MTB if time/weather permits.

Upped the FTP 7 watts to 4.2w/KG from just before Christmas, so things are moving the right direction.

Racing licence paid for and first race entered in order to create a little extra motivation.

Keep looking at new bikes whilst I’ve been hunting around for a new one for my eldest son. Some really nice 2017 models out now, way more tempting than 2016 ones were this time last year, odd.

So how you all getting on with your winter training?

Mine never really got started, and has mostly wilted and died. Combination of reasons / excuses including being poorly and having a sore back. Now I have surgery kind of hanging over me at an unknown time with an unknown outcome so it’s hard to motivate myself to ride for training’s sake (I did think that ‘being fit and strong will put me in the best position to get through the surgery well’, but now I can’t really be arsed). Hmm, that sounds a bit grumpy. I’m not really, just in a bit of an annoying period.

Below par performance again tonight. even after rest week I’ve got massive pain in my upper legs during vo2max intervals.

The next day, my hips hurt and it’s “stiff” to walk – nothing’s changed about my setup :-/

Maybe you’ve got old? HTH 🙂

Recommendations for an hour log recovery session? I just want something to tick over my legs whilst testing out my new TT bike for the first time. Longer intervals at Sweet Spot?

Sweet spot work is not really recovery, but I get your point.

Geiger fits the bill, or Donner if you dial down the FTP by 5-10%

Geiger looks good thanks, I might dial that down a fair bit though as I’m on intervals (old rag) Monday.

Has anyone done an FTP test on TR in erg mode? Reading the blog it sounds like it automatically flips into slope mode during the actual 20min test interval. But it isn’t 100% clear. I was going to do rubber glove tonight, but don’t fancy pissing around manually switching modes after the interval has started if it doesn’t do so.

Found my own answer in the replies to their blog from one of their tech guys, looks like it does as thought…
Hi Stephen,

We’ve set up Rubber Glove to automatically calculate your FTP/LTHR and display this prompt after the workout just as the TrainerRoad FTP tests do.

Additionally, if you’re using an electronic trainer (KICKR, Computrainer, Powerbeam Pro), TR will relinquish control of the trainer during the test interval such that your power isn’t limited by ERG mode.

Well I did rubber glove last night, and was feeling really strong so gave it the beans, apparently I should now reset my FTP from 290 to 403. Not sure I will actually be able to keep that level up though.

In a bit of pain today though, went into the canteen at lunchtime sat down with the lads and then suddenly shot straight back up again as everything tensed up and felt like it was going to tear my kneecap off and drag it half way up my thigh.

apparently I should now reset my FTP from 290 to 403

😯

I realise I have nightmares about my weekly threshold intervals.

6 x7 minutes at threshold. I go into it rested, nutrition sorted, use a gel mid session, drink torq and I give it absolutely everything. It’s high quality and I dread it. 3 days later I do 3x20m Z4 – same deal.

Sometimes I wish I could just do more but lower quality (ie less painful) sessions.

3x20m Z4

Is quite normal

6 x7 minutes at threshold

But what is the deal with this? 4×10, 3×15 or 2×20 are more normal for LT work.

I’m wondering what’s the deal with the gels etc? All mine are done with water and squash in a bottle no more. Perhaps I’ve missed a trick, but my sustainable weight would be so I’d i stuffed that lot down

I’ve never bother with a gel when doing TR stuff before, just stick to water. Probably foolish, should have something when over an hour to help maintain form and focus if nothing else.

Week 6 of sweet spot base mid vol 1 here. I’ve been doing all sessions outside on the cx bike which has been nice – even did an entirely on road session which I actually liked, started thinking I want a road bike 😳 Spent breakfast looking at a Kinesis Aithen Disc 😀

apparently I should now reset my FTP from 290 to 403

😯 x 2

Assume MSP means 303?

I realise I have nightmares about my weekly threshold intervals.
6 x7 minutes at threshold

Only sessions I do above z2 are 4×8 at > 105% FTP here, absolutely dread them. I’ve not actually had nightmares about them yet but I suspect it’s only a matter of time.

I’m wondering what’s the deal with the gels etc?

For emergency use only IMO.

Spent breakfast looking at a Kinesis Aithen Disc

Nice 🙂 Thinking about a new frame for the training bike with discs too, nothing quite tickles my fancy for a sensible price though.

Only sessions I do above z2 are 4×8 at > 105% FTP here,

How very lazy 😉 with the exception of 4×15 95% tomorrow on the new TT bike all my intervals have been in the region of 120-165%.

Normality doesn’t mean less painful! The 6x7minutes = 42minutes at my 20minute threshold ie it’s supposed to be shorter higher intensity.

3x20minutes may be normality but 20minutes at 90% of threshold isn’t exactly a walk in the park either.

Gels – I am empty after 20-30minutes, I don’t care if it’s only mental but it’s harder to throw in the towel after I’ve necked a gel and I feel stronger after it. Also I want to get my stomach used to eating at threshold. I also find a carbohydrate heavy day is a help. I’m not sure I race harder than this 6x7minute session

How very lazy

🙂

6x7minutes = 42minutes at my 20minute threshold

This is a lot harder than it sounds, especially if you have quite a flat power profile.

Gels – I am empty after 20-30minutes, I don’t care if it’s only mental but it’s harder to throw in the towel after I’ve necked a gel and I feel stronger after it.

This was me. I’ve cut back on carbs hugely and try and do as much fasted riding as I can now. It’s really helped. TBH I think a lot of it is psychological.

What’s it helped? Always willing to try something new but I think there’s a physiological justification for replenishing carbohydrate at this intensity.

I’m wondering what’s the deal with the gels etc? All mine are done with water and squash in a bottle no more. Perhaps I’ve missed a trick, but my sustainable weight would be so I’d i stuffed that lot down

I do all my SS/LT sessions fully fuelled too. Otherwise you begin to tire around 2/3rds of the way through and A) the quality of the session drops, and B) you dig yourself a bigger hole from a recovery standpoint.

Edit:

Normality doesn’t mean less painful! The 6x7minutes = 42minutes at my 20minute threshold ie it’s supposed to be shorter higher intensity.

3x20minutes may be normality but 20minutes at 90% of threshold isn’t exactly a walk in the park either.

I certainly wasn’t trying to say 3×20 @ SS was a walk in the park, cos its really not. Takes quite a psychological effort to hang in there for the last 10 mins.

The 6×7 makes much more sense at 20min power rather than FTP. Makes it a very similar session to MrBlobby’s 4×8 which I can confirm is brutal

What’s it helped? Always willing to try something new but I think there’s a physiological justification for replenishing carbohydrate at this intensity.

I think the theory is that your usually burning a mix of carb and fat. And training in a low carb state encourages use of a greater proportion of fat (of which you have a lot more in reserve) for a given effort. I think the result is you burn less carbs for a given effort and can therefore make more of the limited reserves you’ve got. I read a few papers on it a while back that had more detail that seemed to make sense to me. And what I’ve done so far seems to have helped (20 min power is up, finish long rides feeling like I’ve still got lots in the tank.)

I have however spent some long rides tormented by an emergency cereal bar in my jersey pocket 🙂

I do all my SS/LT sessions fully fuelled too.

Much the same here, though that mostly just involves eating normally and not being fasted, not knocking back gels.

Assume MSP means 303?

No I mean 403, these are the figures from last night

1 Minute 448 09/02/2017
2 Minute 444 09/02/2017
5 Minute 439 09/02/2017
10 Minute 432 09/02/2017
15 Minute 429 09/02/2017
20 Minute 426 09/02/2017
30 Minute 346 09/02/2017

So TR estimated my new ftp from the 20 min block to be 403, but I honestly don’t think I could actually hold 403 for an hour. I have never battered myself on the trainer before like I did for that 20 mins, and I think I am better suited to a 20 min interval than I am a 60 min interval, it was also quite a mental effort I was really just hanging onto it for the last 10 mins of the interval fighting with all my will not to let it go and just stop.

You also have to remember I weigh in at 125kg, I am more of an err… power athlete than an average cyclist.

I also wish I had a proper power meter and not just taking readings from the trainer, it is supposed to be pretty accurate, but I have to say it does seem somewhat out of left field. I will have to see how that translates to actually doing training sessions, the problem may be that I can do the hard efforts, but the recoveries are too high to actually recover between intervals. I suspect I will be lowering it.

What is your weight? If you are not a biffer you should be thinking about signing up as a pro soon…

Yeah, I was just editing that in to add some context.

MSP, I’m betting everyone wants to be on your wheel on the flat 🙂

Another thing I did a couple of months ago was to get some pedal extenders. Before that I could feel all the effort was being done by the “teardrop” muscle just above the knee, now it has really shifted into the core of the thigh muscle, I think it has really helped me progress quite quickly.

MSP, I’m betting everyone wants to be on your wheel on the flat

Oh yeah, the bastards never take a turn then, never repay the favour going up hill though.

The 6×7 makes much more sense at 20min power rather than FTP. Makes it a very similar session to MrBlobby’s 4×8 which I can confirm is brutal

Coming off a load of winter z2 and tempo it’s taken a while to get my head around the effort. I’m now at the end of my 5th week of doing these and this is the first week I’ve managed all 4 at the target power (both sessions too!) Rather pleased about that 😀 So now it’s time to reduce the recovery interval 😕

I also wish I had a proper power meter and not just taking readings from the trainer, it is supposed to be pretty accurate, but I have to say it does seem somewhat out of left field. I will have to see how that translates to actually doing training sessions, the problem may be that I can do the hard efforts, but the recoveries are too high to actually recover between intervals. I suspect I will be lowering it.

Large numbers there MSP but sound right ball park for a sizeable bloke. I just switched to a powermeter and my FTP dropped around 10% [initially more than that on first test as I tried to ride to the old value and died horribly]. I think turbo drift is largely responsible, as I have quite a basic one and I can see now how I need to raise cadence each interval to maintain constant power as it warms up. So I was getting an easier workout on wheelspeed-estimated power.

Didn’t find it a problem at all just training to get some legs under me, but if you want to get more serious then a power meter will eventually be needed. Saying that, some turbo designs are way more stable, so will give you pretty accurate virtual power.

Large numbers there MSP

He’s 3.2w/kg. Hardly huge, thats less than me and I’m the least powerful rider I know – just being factual not willy waving…

Interesting what MSP said about his legs though. Before this round of winter training Njee pointed out to me my saddle looked low. I readjusted using the 109% rule with the intent to “fettle” and never did. At then end of my turbo sessions my pains come from within and at the centre/core of my quads as MSP describes, so is that a good thing? My improvement this season has been climbing & sustainable power so is that the impact?