TrainerRoad – STW approved sessions

I think they have to plan the start of the ss base plans to take into account that for some users it might be first time training. Once the drills start they help but it’s still not killer workouts as the peak is a long way away at that point.

The first week of SS isn’t that hard, apart from the test it’s well below FTP, it’s more about getting used to the form and pedalling drills so that you are ready for the harder stuff to come. Says he just remembering that he’s got the 20min FTP test tomorrow as the starter on the Sustained Power Build plan 😯

I keep trying to push the last intervals harder and then remembering I’ve got a erg trainer, doh.

Erg mode a good thing? I’d be keen to give it a try but it strikes me as being a further step away from real cycling and makes it all a bit more artificial. A hill doesn’t automatically get steeper when your cadence drops so why is that a good thing for a turbo to do? Likewise if you want to push on a bit at the end of an interval.

Erg is a bit like taking your medicine. Dial in the prescription and just get on with it. Not sure it confers any huge advantage. Possibly stopping you going too hard is a benefit if you are following a plan. I have been doing some ‘rolling’ under/ over intervals that are definitely easier with the erg.

I’d like an erg trainer for trainerroad, some of the faster changes in power I get confused and end up getting it wrong, also with a nine speed cassette I find the ration jumps mean getting the right power and the right cadence can be a chore.

Did Haeckel earlier, first time I’ve done t.r. Before breakfast rather than after work, seems possibly a better way round.

Erg for someone like me who could quite easily give up and back off, no backbone, is perfect. Also don’t have to think doing intervals. Not bothered if it feels artificial or not, I couldn’t turbo without it.
Part way through short power build and just done Thimble, felt the last few intervals…

Doing short power build here too – complicated by my sporadic commute – which means I miss quite a few trainer sessions.

Did The Priest last night – felt easy. Might try Thimble tonight (Echo looks boring)

@ferrals That can be a problem even with 10/11 speed cassettes, I’ve found it depends on the target power and turbo resistance – some combinations just don’t sit right and I’m at one end or the other of my cadence range. 5 or 10 Watts higher and it’s all OK. It also takes a few sessions to work out just what gearing to use: some workouts I will just sit on the small chainring but sometimes with intervals I try to get the gearing so that all I have to do is move between chainrings for the efforts/rests.

Edit: should have done the FTP test at the start of Sustained Build Mid Volume last night but just CBA, will do it tomorrow night – honest!

also with a nine speed cassette I find the ration jumps mean getting the right power and the right cadence can be a chore.

I’ve got a 12-21 9 speed ultegra cassette on the turbo bike, it’s usually not a problem 🙂

Erg for someone like me who could quite easily give up and back off, no backbone, is perfect.

This I understand! Though sometimes I do need to back off for a few seconds, have a word with myself, then get back on it. Would an erg mode just whack up the resistance as soon as I back off?

In other turbo news… got some new gadgetry. Old plantronics backbeat wireless headphones weren’t loud enough to hear over the new turbo so picked up one of these Sony SBH20 bluetooth things off amazon for 15 quid. Lets me plug in some wired sound isolating headphones but still connect wirelessly to the computer. Plan is to clip it to the HR arm strap.

mrblobby, my erg does follow cadence quite quickly, if you slow down it does increase resistance but not in a sudden ramp up there is a soft edge to it. However you wouldn’t be able to back off for any time mid interval unless you can pick it back up from a low cadence.
Which is why it’s perfect for me, I have no issues with hitting a certain power over a time period but hitting that same power with no variation is what is hard. Certainly helping with mental game for next season.

Does anyone else feel like they can’t maintain the same ‘perceived’ power in the real world compared to on the turbo? Been largely turbo-img because of the dark and cold/wet and feeling reasonable. Went for a real world ride today and just didn’t feel like I could maintain a verging on painful level of exertion for as long as I could on the trainer. Not sure if it’s because of the cold (and associated mega layering), the wind effect, having to steer etc or simply a factor of not having a set line to follow. Any thoughts? Find it slightly hard to assess how ‘race fit’ I am at the moment!

Pretty common if you’ve been doing a lot of turbo. Have a read of this guys blog for reasons. Could well be layers and the cold too, takes me ages to properly get going on an outdoor ride when it’s this cold.

Turbo for me today, a pretty hard modified Kennedy Peak with everything pushed up a bit to make it 2+ hrs of tempo and bottom end of sweetspot. Legs were going a bit at the end 😕 Not too surprised to see a 2hr medal, but the 90 min one was a little unexpected.

I’ve noticed that it takes a couple of days to get my ‘road legs’ back after a week on the turbo. My legs feel ‘blocked’ initially.

I think it’s tough to go as hard outside as inside and there’s a lot of factors. Number one being if I’m all out indoors I’m pretty confident I couldn’t steer etc like I’d need to outside. I also think you’d need to find the right stretch of road. If the hill was the perfect length and there was no traffic etc then maybe it’d make the perfect target but otherwise probably not.

On the turbo I also know that if I over do it all I need to do is stagger to the couch but outside I’m aware I need to be able to ride home so (perhaps subconsciously) keep a bit in reserve.

Mines the other way around – with a power meter I’m clocking about 215np at 95% FTP intervals in TR currently. I did a Z2 outside today which came out at 185NP. Last time I did a crit – about a year ago – Strava estimated 280np.

Glad to hear it’s not just me, looking forward to better light and weather to get out in the real world more! I guess you also use micro stabilising muscles more in the real world.

Did the 20min FTP test tonight, I really wasn’t looking forward to it. FTP dropped by 7, I suppose the 8min test played better to my strengths. I’ve just started the Sustained Build Mid Vol plan so the 20min test is better suited to the longer efforts in that plan.

Strava estimated

😉

Erg now I am used to it like it a lot, did end up death spiralling a couple of times, but now know I can’t back off. If you want to do that you have to change the intensity on the app. It was good for the ramps I was doing last night.

First diversion from the training plan, did a track taster session at cal shot. Great laugh. More adrenaline, but definitely not enough pain!

On the outdoor vs indoor, I seem to be able to push harder, but generally when I have some motivation like racing, and it tends to be in nice weather / good roads. Shit icy cold conditions, I can’t push as hard.

I do find it amusing that every Winter there are the dudes on Strava bashing out so called ‘calibrated’ TrainerRoad efforts of 34-40kmh ave and as soon as they get outside riding their bikes proper they’ll struggle to maintain 29-30kmh averages! What’s that all about?

It all seems like a big Winter ego boost – akin to a Premierleague footy team playing non-league opposition in the preseason and feeling good about 4-0 wins yet when it comes to real season they’re surprised they’re not winning games…

Strava bashing out so called ‘calibrated’ TrainerRoad efforts of 34-40kmh

? Speed is fairly meaningless on a turbo. I’ve no idea what you mean by “calibrated” rides either.

Is a bit of a strange post! who cares what training people are doing – as we all know, the only time it counts competitively is between the whistle and the flag.

Jepson for me this morning, I found it hard as tired and pre-brekker, faltered in the third interval and only did 6 of the 8 minutes. Was also way too hot even with french windows open into the freezing pre-dawn. Fan ordered from argos already!

In general I find the trainerver
road warm-ups and warm downs to short so ahve been using work out creator to extend them as i do the work outs, published then as “[name] Longer warm up” or something like that if anyone else finds the same

Is indeed an odd post. TBH I find putting turbo rides on Strava a bit odd, but then I tend to think of Strava as more of a social tool for sharing rides, whereas some others do use the fitness/freshness thing to track their training.

What’s that all about?

Well wheel speed is a function of power and the resistance offered by your trainer. Power is a much better measure as the resistance of your trainer isn’t a well defined constant. Indeed some trainers have knobs to allow you to vary it, so you can get high wheel speeds for relatively low power. If you’re training for riding on the road this is often a favourable set up as having a rapidly spinning flywheel gives the system more energy and more accurately simulates the mechanics of riding on the flat. It’s silly to compare wheel speed indoors and outdoors. If anyone is getting an “ego boost” from a high wheel speed on a turbo, or if you think that some is, you’re probably both being a bit stupid.

Ferrals, workout creator is brilliant, tweak pretty much everything!

I usually do my own custom workouts on TR but I decided to do Julius Ceaser last night. TSS of 60 odd and an IF of 0.87. I was expecting to feel pretty rough at the end but I was suprisingly chipper…in fact it didnt feel hard at all really.

I suspect I’ve got a fair bit fitter since my last test so I’ve booked in for a VO2/lactate test on Wednesday.

I’m hoping to see at least a 20w increase in FTP

TBH I find putting turbo rides on Strava a bit odd

I do this so I have all rides together, makes sense for me, dont want to pay for training peaks as well as TR just to keep everything logged in one place.

I actually find turbo estimated distances more brutal than real world distances. For real world riding I’d been working on 90-120km a week as being a good level depending on mtb v cx etc. 120km of largely turbo is beasting me!

My rides auto sync with strata. I do check out and comment occasionally on buddies turbo sessions too. A bit of rivalry going on about jobs come summer. Just a bit of fun. I find 2hrs on a turbo far harder than 2 hrs on the road for same average power.

I don’t have a speed sensor on the turbo anymore now I’ve gone direct drive so I don’t even get speed and distance. Time and TSS are the important numbers.

I suspect I’ve got a fair bit fitter since my last test so I’ve booked in for a VO2/lactate test on Wednesday.

Sounds fun 🙂 Where’s that done?

You should be able to get them done at most uni’s with decent sports dept. I had my last one done at Solent Uni in Southampton (can send you over details if you are local)

May check out Oxford and Reading and see what’s done there, bit more local to me. Not too sure I’d want to know my VO2max though, or what benefit there would be. Not a number you can do a huge amount about. And if it came out as a crap number then I think I’d be quite demotivating!

You might be surprised, mine was better than I thought, and I was some way of maxing the HR during the test
Table 3: Results taken at V?O2max
Relative V?O2max (ml·kg·min-1) 65.4
Absolute V?O2max (L·min-1) 4.7
Max heart rate (b·min-1) 194
Work rate at V?O2max (W) 340
RER at V?O2max 1.15

That was summer 2 years ago, after coming back from a broken collar bone / 3 month lay off any serious training and about 3kg heavier than ‘race’ weight

Be very interesting to see how that’s changed over a couple of years.

yes, plan to retest in July.

Having my first son kind of got in the way last summer 🙂

That’s it, seen my a..e with the kickr. Been doing short power build and been thinking harder than should be, hadn’t checked against stages for a while so changed bikes prior to Fang mountain. Kickr under reading by around 10% no wonder been hard.
Will have a mess with belt tension and calibrate again but think going to have to use the stages to control it in the future. I know the stages is ok as have compared it to my wife’s and they are pretty much the same. Might be the push I needed to get a stages for the mtb 🙂

That’s it, seen my a..e with the kickr.

Ouch! 10% easily pushes sweetspot over threshold.

Conversely I need a kickr up the arse tonight, tired and can’t be bothered. On my own with the kids and they are both full of cold and finding it hard to settle so pretty sure I’m going to have an interrupted session anyway 🙁

Some advice / affirmation please:

I want to kick on and get a bit extra from my week, and am about to start XCO. Usually I’d do the Tuesday and Thursday workouts, then skip the longer weekend workout in favour of a club ride.

I’m thinking – specifically for this plan as the weekend workouts are akin to XCO race efforts in format – of bringing the weekend workout forward to replace Thursday’s workout instead, so I get time / fast start long threshold intervals in the bank.

Thoughts?

If I’m feeling good I might also do the shorter Thursday workout Friday PM or Saturday AM and still the club ride on Sunday’s.

Edit: Actually may do the Thurs workout (micro intervals) on Tuesday and Saturday workout (hard starts and long intervals) on Thursday would be better.

So Thursday on Tuesday, Saturday on Thursday, Tuesday on Friday or Tuesday on Saturday, then Sunday on Sunday? 🙂

Probably doesn’t matter too much, whatever works best for you. They’re all similar-ish TSS numbers.

Sure. I guess what I’m saying is that if I move the longer 90 min weekend interval into the week, then I’m being sure of getting a bit more XC specific turbo time into my week, e.g. 2.5 hours rather than than 2hrs.

Another Q: To get more time in I’m thinking of a “commuting” sim – say 30 mins of Kern 30 & Steele alternating fasted pre-breakfast. Is this damaging to the rest days or is it a case of trying it to see if I can cope?

More is better… until it’s too much 🙂

Sounds like a reasonable approach. Those two are still fairly high intensity sessions though, intervals above threshold. I’d add something like Birch, bit longer duration, similar TSS, but less intense and fits in with the idea of it being an alternating hard/easy plan. I do something similar one day a week, and then have a complete rest on another day (usually Monday’s and Friday’s for me.)

mrblobby – Member

More is better… until it’s too much

This is my big issue, when is too much too much? I figure working 9-5 and doing the mid volume it’s never going to be too much but i seem to live with constantly mildly aching legs.

I’m thinking about doing a bit of a work out shift this week, racing cross on Sunday so trying to deced on whether just to keep up the sweetspot base (week 4) or tapering with some high intesntiy intervals.

Booked in for a skinfold test on Weds to get a handle on body fat percentage too, should be interesting as I have no idea! But might mean a diet’s in order 🙁