TrainerRoad – STW approved sessions

Going to do my first FTP test on Friday or sat as having a rest week after five cx race weeks on the trot so should be fresh enough to have a good result. I am thinking prob do 8minute test. So I essentially go as hard as I can for the 8mins and then it does a transfer to an hour FTP? I’ve arbitrarily set my FTP as 225 at the moment, but I normally do workouts at over 100%, not sure whether to ramp it up a bit

ferrals, 8 mins hard enough to make you think you’re going to vomit, 10 mins of easy spinning, then another 8 minutes hard enough to actually vomit. If the bucket’s not full you’ve not tried hard enough 🙂

I think it then does the sums to work out the average of the two efforts and sets the FTP to be 90% of that average.

Are you doing the Trainerroad test? If so it’s 2×8 minutes after a warm up then average then 90%? of it. If you’re above 100% for long periods I’d increase it a bit; if you’re above for short periods but tiring it might be about right. As has been discussed previously there is a bit of an art to pacing and so the first few times you will probably start to hard or too soft. Last year my ftp went 264-278-285-300 over the summer and at least some of that was just practice.

mrblobby – Member
ferrals, 8 mins hard enough to make you think you’re going to vomit, 10 mins of easy spinning, then another 8 minutes hard enough to actually vomit. If the bucket’s not full you’ve not tried hard enough

You lightweight needing a bucket, on Sunday’s race I was swallowing my own vomit by lap 3!

Yeah it’s the trainer road test. I’ve been putting it up by about 10% and even that’s been seeming easy – though before starting trainerroad my training approach has been hard as I can for as long as I can so when I’m not doing that it seems odd.

Just did the 8min test for the first time. Didn’t quite get the intervals right and ended up pushing hard the final 2 mins, got close to puking….:)

Result 266 based on kickr, stravas estimate based on my last weeks 6 weeks power data was 264 based on stages. Not a bad starting point.

Watts/kg would be more meaningful.

3.69w/kg

Is anyone using one of the new Elite Volano trainers with TrainerRoad who can share the settings they are using? It does not show up in the list of Elite trainers for virtual power etc. I am new to both trainers and TrainerRoad so struggling with setup.

I’m consciously avoiding w/kg on this thread as I like the fact that it’s not competitive… for all you know I could be 120kg 😀

It’s still not an absolute indicator. Mine via TR fairly low for someone whose racing regularly with decent results in class, but I can’t hand on to a cat 4 pack for toffee yet put out higher average watts during club rides. For example, my recent bodged calculations result in the fact I might be as much as 40w over my TR FTP away from the mancave.

You have to remember to account for the static nature, temps, setup / resistance etc that varys between your setup and outside. Also, my physiology means I’m far better at long sub FTP efforts than I am at vo2 Max, so I’ve reached a point where the 8 min test is sub-beneficial to my real FTP.

I know some of that sounds just wrong but I can’t work it out if it is.

Sounds right. It’s more about having an appropriate power profile for your discipline (and weight and drag and whatever else is relevant.) 60MP (or FTP) is a bit of an artificial number, especially on a turbo.

TR does show a sort of power profile. Would be an interesting if they used that to scale the workouts, rather than just base everything off FTP. E.g. if you’re a really strong sprinter, then some of the short busty intervals just based on a percentage of FTP may not be hard enough, whereas for an endurance rider with a flat power profile they may be too hard.

They do have the Coggan profile test on there. I did that and although it suprised me a bit I used the resulting profile on XC strategy this year and it worked. Turns out I’m almost perfectly profile for XC & XC endurance, and disastrously profiled for Crits. We know that to be true, so hence I’m now not banging on the wrong door.

So it is accurate on terms of the overall profile and we know the plans work to raise out FTP and certainly in my case my tolerance levels. But what we are saying here is that use your TR ftp on the TR setup,

Turns out I’m almost perfectly profile for XC & XC endurance, and disastrously profiled for Crits.

Because that is where your training is focused? Long XC rides, long club rides, etc.

I did that and although it suprised me a bit I used the resulting profile on XC strategy this year and it worked.

Interesting that. What did you do?

Kryton57 – Where do you find the suggested Power Profle for XC racing? All I can see is World Champ, World Class, Exceptional, Excellent, Very Good, Good, Moderate and Fair

Gazhurst… http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling

Was also reading this the other evening which is quite interesting… http://www.rideabout.co/how-to-prepare-train-for-xc-racing/

Lol. Gazhurst – you know we race together right? And for that reason – MrBlobby – I’m not putting my new XC race strenghts & weaknesses up here, Gaz is one of my 2016 target riders 😉

Gaz – I’m referring to the “H.A. & A.C. Power Profile Test” workout in Trainerroad. If you perform that and compare your results with the categorised summaries in thier “Training with Power” book, it gives you a profile of the type of rider you are, strengths, weaknesses and what type of events you should be targeting.

I did this and changed my race strategy from mid-year and started seeing better results based on the fact I wasn’t flogging myself to death in the wrong places.

Of course, you can choose to do that, train your weaknesses etc interpret it how you like… a lot of people “know” what to do – I needed to be told and it worked for me.

Edit: in a bizarre twist I realised youd asked me a different question Gaz and I was just about to list the same website MrBlobby pointed to up there ^^ Theres another I found I’ll try to find it…

Got a second Honeywell fan recently and last night attached it to the roof of the garage so it fires down onto my back whilst riding – very effective – was a bit too cold before I warmed up.

Do we????? Do you win??? Everyone else does when they race me 😯

Lol, no but I’m not far behind you. I’m sure I’ve got you right -KTM at MSG & Beastway this year?

Yeah thats me….what do you ride?

Yeah thats me….what do you ride?

What does he ride?! There seems to be a daily thread on that subject 🙂

I look at all these sources and at my Allen and Coggan book and then go out and do 4 months of Z2 followed by 2 months of intervals plus some technical XC and some long rides. Maybe I should start doing some of these complicated workouts.

Some interesting observations there Kryton!

I’ll have to have a quick google for “Andrew Coggan’s Rider Abilities Profile”

I’ve ridden a couple of the new Sufferfest films at my guesstimate FTP after a summer away from hard sessions so I’m starting to get a feel for it again.

Probably give Rubber Glove a bash at the weekend so I can get a “real” FTP figure to work from.

Gaz – Anthem 29 LP shirt – we talked briefly after we both bailed at Ickworth. I’m not in your category so no need to be nervous until you turn 40 / enter Vets 😀

‘Chef – I’m not a coach, its just that when I found out which profile I fell into and raced accordingly suddenly I was top finishing top 10 locally instead of 13/14/15. It was all about where and how I applied my effort. I was also able to pick out riders and know where in the race I would be able to pass, rather than trying exhaustively in the heat of the moment.

Importantly, as I suspect we all know raising FTP helps across the board.

Importantly, as I suspect we all know raising FTP helps across the board.

Can do, unless it’s at the expense of something more important.

I look at all these sources and at my Allen and Coggan book and then go out and do 4 months of Z2 followed by 2 months of intervals plus some technical XC and some long rides. Maybe I should start doing some of these complicated workouts.

“Complicated workouts”, they’re all variations on pretty basic themes just to keep things interesting on the turbo 🙂

Gaz – Anthem 29 LP shirt – we talked briefly after we both bailed at Ickworth. I’m not in your category so no need to be nervous until you turn 40 / enter Vets

Ah I remember…well, to fuel your target, I go into Vets as of the 1st January 😥

mrblobby – Member

Gazhurst… http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling

Was also reading this the other evening which is quite interesting… http://www.rideabout.co/how-to-prepare-train-for-xc-racing/ You must need quite a sophisticated turbo to get an accurate 5 sec power figure? Would like to do a power profile thing but I can’t see my rinky-dink blue motion being reliable over such a broad range of output.

I think the answer is Sweet Spot Base vol 1, but after my first year on a road bike, I am realising that my sprint could be better and also improve my endurance riding at tempo.

I started Sweet Spot Base 1 low volume in the spring, but did not complete it as I did not religiously follow the plan due to family life, and switched to riding outdoors and joined my local club when the weather improved.

My normal garage fix is TrainerRoad mixed with SF Angels, AVDP or Downward Spiral when I really want to test myself.

Is it worth still mixing these videos up, try something new for a change or just work through and complete Sweet Spot Base this time? I am still getting one road session in per week, 25 or 60 miles depending if it is an evening or weekend ride.

Appreciate your thoughts

Ah I remember…well, to fuel your target, I go into Vets as of the 1st January

The hardest category of course… 8) You were/are a fair bit quicker than me but I’m hoping not to be beset with virus this winter – I had December and Feb off the bike last winter – and improve up to March. The only reason I said I was aiming at was you have a fairly obvious bike.

According to the numbers I’m fitter today than the day of the first MSG this year, so there is hope as I build toward March – see you there!

And back to TR – just completed Donner, pleased to have managed the whole of the last interval on the drops with elbows tucked – get in!

Just done Goddard using Kickr in erg mode with a stages recording on a separate device. Top graph shows Stages and bottom Kickr. Ave pwr Stages 245, Kickr 242. Hadn’t realised Goddard included single leg drills so didn’t do them as obviously this would have skewed the figures massively.
More than happy with carrying on using just the Kickr after seeing this, what this experiment has shown me that while the Kickr being reactive is slower to show peaks and troughs in comparison to the Stages it doesn’t really affect the overall result. The spikes in the last two intervals are down to a big jump in cadence and the Kickr resistance catching up.
Did this after once again reading about Kickr misreading issues, I seem to have a good one 🙂

FTP test for me on Tuesday next week.

First one since acquiring my new Kickr. As far as erg mode goes, will this effect the 20 minute test workout? Or will it be automatically disabled?

It’ll be automatically disabled for the 20 minute bit, but on for the warm up etc. (Assuming you are using TrainerRoad.)

Ah thats good to know thank you.

I like to do my own warm up before the 20 mins instead so I guess i’ll just dissable it for that particular workout.

Will be interesting to compare my results to my regular ‘dumb@ trainer compared to the kickr.

In that case I think you can just (all from within TrainerRoad) set the Kickr to be in resistance mode for the whole workout. Alternatively you could do what you like to warm up, then start the TR workout, and skip to just before the 20 minute test period (I think you just click on that time point on the desktop app at least). I’m not 100% sure that it would calculate and update your FTP if you’ve only partially completed the workout, but I imagine it probably would. You could always check with TR support, or else you could calculate it yourself from the recorded data, and manually update in TR later, so you won’t ‘lose’ the result of your effort whatever happens!

rsvktm, interesting data there. Was that running in erg mode? How does the NP compare with the Stages?

I did wonder if the kickr was just reporting power based some speed equation or actually measuring it using strain gauges. The smoothness and lack of peaks when accelerating makes it look like it’s doing the former, but then the dips at the end of the interval looks more like the latter.

Just did the 8 min FTP, got 302, so being a scrawny runt have a power to weight ratio of 5.4. Have a feeling this means trainerroad was over estimating but at least the workouts will be calibrated. Was pleased with how well I paced myself, could have gone a fraction harder on the first one, went a bit too hard to start on the second to compensate and went back down to the level of my first and held that for the 8 minutes

Nice one ferrals, it doesn’t really matter what the figure is as long as consistent.
mrblobby, looking at NP – 284 for stages, 274 Kickr. TSS 200 and 186.4. There is a differance and not unexpected seeing that the Kickr loses the peaks when I spin up for intervals, however doesn’t appear to degrade over the session.
Don’t use the Kickr for the big intervals anyway as don’t like to sprint fixed in and really don’t like the frame twisting, turbo for me is to improve my aerobic fitness so if the figures are slightly low will just give me incentive 😉

Ignore those TSS figures, don’t use Garmin normally for eval, just easier to screenshot the figures.
For some reason my FTP Is not showing right in Garmin and as I don’t use TSS normally, use Strava fitness and freshness, I didn’t click that the TSS was far too much…

By the way, trainerroad suggested my LTHR was 155, but I think that’s too low? In a cx race I’ll spend the entire race at about 180, which I don’t think would be possible if my threshold was 155?

I noticed that TrainerRoad suggested a lower threshold hr for me as well but since I train with virtual power I just left it at what I had before.