Home › Forums › Chat Forum › Theft by Ticketmaster
- This topic has 107 replies, 45 voices, and was last updated 3 weeks ago by squirrelking.
-
Theft by Ticketmaster
-
sc-xcFull Member
(Added extra post as forum glitched for me when submitting the last one)
1CougarFull MemberBig events routinely crash their site- not just that one event but the whole site. There’s absolutely no meaningful queueing or attempt to mitigate that.
There was a time I would argue that you don’t scale your systems according to atypical demand. Like, when the mobile network used to melt at 11:55pm every New Year’s Eve – it would be stupid to build infrastructure to cope with that and have 80% of it dormant for the rest of the year.
But that was then. Today, cloud computing enables entities to spin servers up and down based on demand. It’s perfectly plausible to have multiple servers automatically power up to react to load and then shut down again to save money. With Ticketbastard it’s either incompetence or wilful obstinance.
shintonFree MemberBut that was then. Today, cloud computing enables entities to spin servers up and down based on demand. It’s perfectly plausible to have multiple servers automatically power up to react to load and then shut down again to save money. With Ticketbastard it’s either incompetence or wilful obstinance.
I agree in principle that Cloud gives you the ability to auto-scale on demand but when 14 million people are trying to get tickets that load must even stretch things to breaking point. However, TM know the tickets will sell come what may so why spend money spinning up expensive resources so obstinance is my bet.
3MSPFull Memberor is part of the sales strategy, especially for dynamic pricing. If you just go onto TM add the tickets to the basket and are straight through to complete the transaction within a minute (which is all it should take) you are more likely to baulk at the cost and not buy. If you have already committed yourself to hours of trying to just get to add the tickets into the basket you are much more likely to accept the overpriced ticket and gouging additional costs.
1scuttlerFull MemberThere was a time I would argue that you don’t scale your systems according to atypical demand.
Bookies would for the Grand National
HMRC wouldn’t for Self Assessment deadline
Cos ££££££
vlad_the_invaderFull Memberhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj04y6y0316o
Oasis “ditch dynamic pricing” for North American leg of tour but are still using Ticketmaster…
1NorthwindFull MemberCougar
Full MemberThere was a time I would argue that you don’t scale your systems according to atypical demand. Like, when the mobile network used to melt at 11:55pm every New Year’s Eve – it would be stupid to build infrastructure to cope with that and have 80% of it dormant for the rest of the year.
But that was then. Today, cloud computing enables entities to spin servers up and down based on demand. It’s perfectly plausible to have multiple servers automatically power up to react to load and then shut down again to save money. With Ticketbastard it’s either incompetence or wilful obstinance.
Plus, we’re not even talking here about freak events or absolute maximums – Oasis was unusually big but the Biffy shows I mentioned that caused the site to fall over constantly for an hour are the Barras and Shepherd’s Bush Empire, it’s a total turnout of like 12000 people I think. I mean sure, the demand was higher than that but it’s just not that big an event. P!nk exploded it, Taylor Swift nuked it, Iron Maiden broke it, Springsteen’s going to break it… I don’t go to mega shows so the fact I’ve had like 4 or 5 terrible experiences with their website since the pandemic says a lot.
And when it breaks, it usualy breaks badly. No pre-queueing, no real durability (so if you’re in a multi-screen operation and the website’s flaky but not completely broken you end up having to repeat processes, which of course drives up their traffic…).
But like i say it’s not failure exactly, they just don’t give a shit, there’s no real consequences to them and no real alternative and therefore no motivation to do better.
nickingsleyFull MemberBitten the bullet and paid the £10 TM fee/£45 ticket. Put it behind me as there is nothing I can do and now looking forward to London Grammar.
w00dsterFull MemberSimilar to Nick above, just bought tickets but through ATG who I think are part of Ticketmaster?
Absolute rip off, but just seems that’s what it costs. Billy Joel at Anfield. Two tickets. I watch loads of small local gigs as well, but the missus wanted to go to this.
Tickets
£320.00
Transaction Fee
£2.50
Facility Fee
£5.00
Service Fee
£34.00theotherjonvFree MemberService fee £34 is the killer. For what? Or specifically, what more than the £2.50 I pad for my TWP tickets.
That’s the theft bit.
scuttlerFull MemberThe £34 is for important men to convene and push their special buttons on your behalf. You heard it up there.
theotherjonvFree MemberGranted, Billy Joel for £160 is about, erm, £160 more than i’d want to pay.
the missus wanted to go to this.
Chinny chin chin chinny.
(would have posted you know what but you get the gist)
ChrisLFull MemberAbout ten years ago a gig I was going to got cancelled and I got the standard “you’ll get the ticket’s face price back, but not the fees” thing. I can’t remember whether it was Ticketmaster, one of their aliases, See Tickets or someone else.
In an extended fit of obstinacy I went looking and found a government/OFT document about ticket refunds, whose general conclusions were that the vendor should be the one to cover those when an event is cancelled. There was nothing binding in it, but had a definite vibe of “obviously the consumer should get a full refund”.
I had paid for my tickets with PayPal so I took a chance and raised a claim to get the fees back. The ticket company fought it all the way to the point where I’d have to escalate to a dispute, then refunded the fees. If I recall correctly this is probably because PayPal internally decides the outcome of any dispute, and if a company is decided to be in the wrong they’ll get suspended from PayPal, which could be quite a problem for them, so if the outcome isn’t cut and dried in a company’s favour it isn’t worth the risk of fighting on.
It isn’t great that PayPal is the only reason I got my fees back and the whole process was long and stressful (and the fees back then didn’t actually amount to much) but it can be done.
1PrinceJohnFull MemberSo – this has probably been done earlier in thread – but lets look at those costs –
According to TM the ticket cost goes to –
“Paying the artist, Hiring the venue, Running the tour, Marketing the show, Insuring the event.
But the fees Ticketmaster takes go towards many costs including giving our fans a quick and secure ticket buying experience
Security technology, Websites & apps, Payment provider costs, Staffing costs, Ticket scanners, Venue, Box office equipment, Offices, running costs, Customer services, Promoter”So there seems to be plenty of double payments there – the venue double dips as does the promoter. So security tech, box office equipment & scanners are the same thing, didn’t realise TM even had customer services.
So looking at Billy Joel –
Tickets
£320.00 according to TM – That’s for artist, venue, marketing (although for a massive artist like this or Oasis surely just the fact they are there is enough & the fans do the rest cos it’s so exciting) running the tour & insurance
Transaction Fee – presumably the cost of running your card or paypal – most other things I buy don’t have this added cost.
£2.50
Facility Fee – haven’t we already paid that as part of the main ticket?
£5.00
Service Fee – TM staff etc… Anfield has a capacity of 61,276 for gigs so assuming a sell out & that service fee was £17/ticket that’s £1,041,692 TM cream off the top to run their operation. Of course that doesn’t take into account the more expensive the tickets the higher the service fee.
£34.00So I guess the question is how much does it actually cost to provide ticket services & infrastructure to run a gig of this side. It wouldn’t surprise me as well if some of the flat original ticket price goes to TM from the promoter so they get paid to provide their ‘service’ to the promoter & then charge the end user to purchase from their platform.
It’s an absolute disgrace.
EDIT – I also just noticed while researching the above – there is also a timer to purchase tickets. So pressures fans into buying – that is illegal in other sales areas I think?
nickingsleyFull MemberHopefully the CMA will have a good look at this in the not to distant future.
2nickingsleyFull Member£320 for BJ tickets to keep OH happy .. .. bargain.
Choosing my first ever proper big bike, I explained carefully to the OH the benefit of getting the best spec I could sensibly afford as it was cheaper that way rather than upgrading later. I was delighted she was so understanding. Though when the summerhouse arrived (I didn’t think we needed but.. .) and I noticed the cedar shingle roof she did point out it was best to get them as part of the package to avoid the additional costs of a later upgrade.
Subsequent bike purchases have involved much more upfront negotiations !!
1CougarFull Memberthere is also a timer to purchase tickets
That at least I can understand. An in-demand gig has a finite amount of tickets, sticking a pair in your basket and returning a week later or not returning at all robs someone else of the opportunity. Doubly so if it’s seated, if you reserve seats and then don’t buy them they have to be released. It’s the same buying cinema tickets despite buying the only seats in an empty theatre.
1sc-xcFull Memberthat’s £1,041,692 TM cream off the top to run their operation.
Not quite. For the really big events they have been known to employ up to 40 people to watch the computers crash. That’s nearly three and a half grand they’ve got to stump up. (I’m assuming minimum wage, judging by the performance).
£320 for BJ tickets to keep OH happy
Can’t see this option on Ticketmaster, but it sounds like another rip off. I’ve been told round here it’s £50.
NorthwindFull MemberSo today, Frank Turner’s weekend mini-festival thing Lost Evenings, next September in Edinburgh, went on presale. This is a 3000 person capacity event, nothing out of the ordinary though demand’s probably quite high because being a Frank Turner fan is exactly like being in a cult. Open presale, 4 nights for £140.
Well first of all it was through Gigs In Scotland which of course is Ticketmaster with a different hat on so they can pretend not to be an all-crushing monopoly. So you had to follow the link there, then login, then… That took you to the main Ticketmaster site anyway where you had to log in again. If anything went wrong with these logins, you lost your ticket allocation and got kicked to the Ticketmaster page… but it was impossible to access the presale and it looked sold out. But actually it wasn’t, you just had to go back to the start through “Gigs In Scotland” not “Ticketmaster” and couldn’t pick up from where it left you.
It sold out super fast, inevitably… Or… Well, actually it turned out that loads of people had got messed over by the website and were unable to complete their transactions, which then got cancelled by dribs and drabs over the next 15 minutes. This included me btw- ticket allocated to me, endless loop on checkout. Endless refreshing and jumping onto different browsers or devices meant a lot of people managed to snag these tickets as they got released but by 20 past they were pretty much gone except for a brief second wave of 15 minute cancellations. I got lucky and managed to get one- at which point I literally still had one in my browser basket that was “sold out” but was scrounging around for a discard. Inevitably other people have 3 or 4 tickets allocated to them because they’re trying to log in on multiple machines, further screwing with the website and with teh availability.
Then about 2 hours later something else happens and they release a bunch more tickets seemingly at random, nobody knows why. But there’s no announcement or update, and everyone who doesn’t have a ticket- which is a lot of disappointed people- don’t know there’s now tickets available and have given up and are waiting for tomorrow’s main release. At this point my brother logs off from work, idly goes “oh look, frank turner is on sale, didn’t know about that” and gets a ticket just by logging in at the right time.
For this we pay £18.90 “service fee” and a £1.75 “facility charge” on a £140 face value ticket. Yes thank you for your excellent service, worth every penny.
3Cougar2Free MemberI think that’s what sticks in my craw the most. I’d care less about a service charge if I thought I’d received a service to that value.
PrinceJohnFull Member@northwind – that sounds like a positively smooth experience compared to the show 3000 ticket pain… where the website crashed for most of the day & was only up & running about 1 or 2pm – admittedly at that point buying the tickets was dead easy.
1CountZeroFull MemberHow is it different to paying 4 quid for a cake in a cafe as opposed to buying your own from a supermarket?
The last time I paid four quid for a cake in a cafe, I wasn’t charged a surprise additional two quid to go and get it from the counter myself.*thumbsupemoji*
I absolutely resent having to use my own paper and ink to print a ticket for an event. The most recent gig I’ve booked tickets for, which is Throwing Muses in Bristol, I was sent actual paper ticket that didn’t cost me extra for the privilege. I don’t mind digital tickets that I keep on my phone, but I expect them to have no extra fees attached for using that facility, it’s not costing the booking agency or the venue anything.
Another thing that I find irksome is being told that the digital tickets that I’ve booked will be available no later than five days before the event. Say what now? It’s a sodding digital process! Some venues, like Bristol Beacon, give you a link to download the tickets in the ticket confirmation when you book, which is exactly how it should work.tomhowardFull MemberEDIT – I also just noticed while researching the above – there is also a timer to purchase tickets. So pressures fans into buying – that is illegal in other sales areas I think?
you’ve already clicked ‘buy’ at that point I think, and your ticket is allocated. The timer is to put your details in, so they can put the tickets back on sale if you faff about putting details in.
They aren’t pressuring you to purchase
squirrelkingFree MemberAnother thing that I find irksome is being told that the digital tickets that I’ve booked will be available no later than five days before the event. Say what now? It’s a sodding digital process! Some venues, like Bristol Beacon, give you a link to download the tickets in the ticket confirmation when you book, which is exactly how it should work.
Oh yeah, see also tickets with constantly changing barcodes. Nice and secure. Great idea. Now put the venue entrance in a corner with a shite or non-existent data signal. *facepalm* (Bellahouston park)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.