The Trail Pot – A Blueprint to change the fortunes of MTB in the UK?

Peak District MTB has published a call for an ambitious national investment fund to support the development of off-road biking. The fund, which would …

By stwhannah

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The Trail Pot – A Blueprint to change the fortunes of MTB in the UK?

Good idea, as a local (ish), I’d contribute an amount per month or something like that.

Ditto, as a regular (when I’m fit) Peak rider I’d happily chuck a couple of quid a month in if there was an easy way of doing it (and reminding me to do it).

This isn’t just for Peaks riders – it just happens to be PDMTB that’s proposing it. It would be a national fund for national projects. Would people contribute to that, rounding up your LBS purchase in Swinley, knowing the money might go to a project somewhere near Newcastle?

 

Would people contribute to that, rounding up your LBS purchase in Swinley, knowing the money might go to a project somewhere near Newcastle?

As someone that rides at both, but lives near Newcastle I’m down with this 😉

I think the model they have in Aberdeenshire is the future of MTB in the UK and is why the area is rapidly becoming one of the riding hotspots with more new trail centre development than probably the rest of the UK combined, along with other stuff going on at an industry level.

I mis-read the article it seems – yeah, I’d be happy to contribute to a national fund, it’s probably better that way as I imagine you’d need a decent chunk of change to do anything meaningful in some places

I don’t think it is a bad idea.  I think the hard part is getting people to contribute regularly though. I’m sceptical that your average audi driving MTB rider will actually chuck enough in the pot to make it sustainable.  I’ve seen plenty of people dodging parking charges which are much closer linked to the riding they have just done than a future development fund.

In other contexts with “National” funds I’ve seen two (conflicting) gripes:

– areas with existing strengths find it easier to bid for money because they can show there is enough footfall / traction / interest whilst areas with current poor provision / capability may not have the local expertise to pull together grant applications etc.  You end up with massive centralised hot spots and gaps in between  OR

– areas with existing strengths are discouraged from applying because the qualifying criteria are about developing new facilities in under serviced areas.  Despite having high demand, being more likely to have ongoing use and probably a disproportionately high number of contributors to a national pot the local projects are expected to be self-sustaining.  You end up with lots of small facilities without enough usage to justify the maintenance costs and the national standard facilities get neglected.

Given we should all be aspiring to travel less by car a fund that only builds facilities far away from me should be less attractive than one that builds facilities close to home.  I’m not sure it’s a fund that’s needed – it’s more a vision / strategy and the tools to deliver it long term that are required.

Liking the idea and happy to contribute, but (sorry), for me there are always a couple fairly large and problematic issues:-

– what is cycling (or mountain biking), see another recentish thread for various views
– who gets/manages/doles out the dosh – PeakMTB, CyclingUK, BritshCycling, IMBA UK, etc etc and what sums are allocated to which aspects of cycling/mountain biking (see point 1)

Good points towzer. Its Chris from PDMTB here.

– what is cycling is a good question but for a panel to decide reinvestment. Projects would be appraised on an individual basis

– money would be held in charitable trust and reinvested to agreed criteria. Maybe regionally. I have a model for this worked out.

 

So it’s basically a national level of what Ride Sheffield are already trying to do with Radtax at a local level?

Rad Tax Signup

So far, after a few years 70 people are signed up. Given the number of riders who use the facilities RS work on/help manage, that’s pretty rubbish. As above – plenty of people say they’ll donate; not so many actually do. Add in a cost of living crisis…?

I’d suggest the name could use some work. Maybe I’ve been lurking on Pinkbike too much, but Trailpot suggests something that might be used in the EDC One Hitter

The concept is worthy enough – but as above – the detail and practicalities need some thought

You can’t argue that it will need safeguards built in but you surely can’t argue that it needs doing.

Bravo to those that want to move things forward.

With my accountant head on, the idea is great in principle, but either there’s an expectation that the panel will do a lot of work for free, or the staff costs will swallow a lot of the cash for the first few years, at which point people will say it’s not worth donating because nothing has been achieved…

My gut feel for a national pot would be that the money ‘donated’ would be so thinly spread over such a large geographic area that I would not expect to see any noticable benefits in my area, I’d be much more likely to donate to a fund which covered a specific area local to me (like the sheffield idea) , than some kind of national thing.

What would be interesting would be to have a nationally standardised system for micro-donations that any local trail association could sign up to. Maybe an app that riders could sign up to as givers and trail associations as receivers.

Local riders could sign up to a regular donation to their local trails. Riders who have visited a different area and enjoyed it could throw a one-off donation to that area’s trail association.

Essentially the riders control where their money goes and hopefully it encourages people to invest in their local areas where they spend most of their time.

Daft question – can you setup for amazon smile? Not sure what the return on that is like but I can imagine more success than something that requires direct input from the mtb public.

@JonEdwards I believe that can be done through Trailforks already, how successful that is is another matter mind.

I like the idea and principle. Sounds admin/volunteer heavy but good causes with momentum find good people. Have often thought trail and access funding needs good local support and stewardship (results you can see) combined with a national org overseeing things to bring all the local work together (support that enables results locally).

Perhaps the funds a local group could help generate include a % to the national body. I’ve paid for Rushmere and Woburn trail membership/access in the past, would do the same for a local area equivalent. I’d rather have a basic bike on great trails than a £££ bike on crap trails..

And perhaps more UK bike companies could have an equivalent of 1% for the Planet to support these aims (I know some already do and they should probably get more widespread recognition for it).

Trailforks has a Trail Karma option where you can make a donation to the local trailbuilding group or trail association (if 1 is added to the trails)…I’ve used it a couple of times – as in donated.
If this was used it would (or should) mean the local appropriate group gets the funding.
I like the idea of a national fund but my concern would be the likes of the current hotspots that already get all the cash will keep getting this cash as well (yes, I mean Glentress) leaving all the other opportunities to fight for the scraps as they do now.

Edit – someone beat me to it with the trail karma stuff on trailforks – this iquiz thing is distracting me too much!

Evening folks. Finally had chance to sit down and have a look at some of the comments. First of all, thanks for the support for the idea – it’s really good to know you’re in favour of something like this. I’m a bit daunted about I may be about to take on, but excited to try and do something big for the community.

A few comments on the questions here…

“So it’s basically a national level of what Ride Sheffield are already trying to do with Radtax at a local level?”

One small option of the funding stream is like RadTax, the rest is different. The level of donation has to be so small as to be negligible. But then at scale – nationally, it would build a significant pot.

“I’d suggest the name could use some work.”

Yep. I pick this up in the full article on our website “Call it the trail pot, the investment fund or whatever, with enough engagement, the name is immaterial – it’s the results that will count.”
I quite like Trail Investment Pot. Cos then you can be prompted to leave a TIP.

“The detail and practicalities need some thought”

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Yes. That’s why we’re putting it out there – so people can input and shape it. I have reams of scribbles about how it would/could work.</span>

“There’s an expectation that the panel will do a lot of work for free.”

Have you met me? 🙂 I’m passionate about this. Lots of others in the world of advocacy are too. If we want something to really work, we’ll put the time in. I know loads of people who put in loads of hours voluntarily – the hardest part of that, I’ve always found, is identifying a specific task. Volunteer hours don’t always have to be with a mattock.

“Money ‘donated’ would be so thinly spread over such a large geographic area that I would not expect to see any noticable benefits in my area”
“Would people contribute to that, rounding up your LBS purchase in Swinley, knowing the money might go to a project somewhere near Newcastle?”“staff costs will swallow a lot of the cash for the first few years”

I have a model for ‘fair’ redistribution of money raised so that this wouldn’t be a problem. In fact, the model would almost incentivise participation. It’s on a bit of scrap paper at the moment though, not in a shiny pdf. In year one I’d anticipate a lower level of funds being used to give local advocacy groups the boost they need to lift their game; web domains, tools, posters, flags, maybe insurances – that kind of thing. Small win results which then play back into the fund by helping volunteer groups to almost professionalise how they operate.

“What would be interesting would be to have a nationally standardised system for micro-donations that any local trail association could sign up to.”

The unfortunate side effect being a parochial flow of money purely localised and no unifying cause to unite the MTB community. Trail Pot lifts the altruistic element up to a mandated cause.

“I’m sceptical that your average audi driving MTB rider will actually chuck enough in the pot to make it sustainable”

Yep, a fair concern. The aim is to make it negligible in the spend mechanism. But at scale.

“In other contexts with “National” funds I’ve seen two (conflicting) gripes”

A fair point. I’d want to see the application process for funds made simple for both groups and the panel. I work in comms so have some skill in this area.

“Perhaps the funds a local group could help generate include a % to the national body.”

Yep. PDMTB would look to contribute. Agree with everything you say.

 

I do think it is a brilliant idea.

Great Idea, I’ve been building trail for 20 years as a volunteer and we could definitely do with some funding

Great idea, and I’d be happy to donate cash and time ( @Pook genuinely – let me know if there’s anything I can do from this flat corner of the East Midlands – education/art/photography/graphics is my thing but I’ll turn my hand to most stuff) if it would help.

My only niggle (with a selfish local hat on) would be that it might (due to the nature of UK trails) end up creating bigger imbalances? There’s precious little riding round here that isn’t XC heavy or edge of field stuff. The more fun bits we do have are all unofficial on FE land. We did have some official FE funded/maintained trails but these were decommissioned a couple of years back and to date FE don’t really want to engage with local riders beyond tolerating us.

So… any available funding would be unlikely to get to our area as there’s currently no ‘legal’ route to spending it? And we’re left driving 90 minutes or more to get to anything more interesting.

This has been mentioned here a few time before, but I guess what I’d like (as well as this kind of ‘national’ funding model), is either a UK trail advocacy organisation, or at least something that coordinates all the local ones to support (financially maybe, but deffo in terms of knowledge/experience/precedence and the ‘clout’ of a national body) riders and advocates in areas like ours in working with FE/landowners/local authorities in agreeing, planning and promoting trails in the first place. Kind of like a UK-specific IMBA but that actually gets stuff done?

There’s precious little riding round here that isn’t XC heavy or edge of field stuff.

But you have a bunch of people willing to push for and try to achieve stuff. If their efforts could be financially supported – even with something so basic as posters, that group could properly represent itself and start campaigning strongly. The seed funding from the Trail Pot could help you become very noisy.

And re: the offer of help – yes, email me chris@peakdistrictmtb.org 🙂

I have a model for ‘fair’ redistribution of money raised so that this wouldn’t be a problem. In fact, the model would almost incentivise participation.

I reckon “fair redistribution” is probably the biggest challenge, nevermind finding volunteers or persuading people to set up local advocacy groups.

And I can’t help thinking people need more than just advice on setting up websites and obtaining insurance, positive engagement with other local user groups, land owners and local authorities will be the most difficult part for many to navigate.

Dare I say it this fund may need to appoint paid full timers to offer the sort of advice and support people might actually need. Advocacy could end up taking a disproportionate amount of funds.

The other thing I really have to admit to is having zero clue about is what stuff actually costs, materials, tools, equipment rentals, insurance,etc, what does it cost to get a few hundred meters of trail built and running?

There’s some key variables here that you need some sort of idea on, how many MTBerists would be willing and able to chuck money in the pot and therefore how much and how frequently could you expect donations? A million people chucking in a pound a month? 500,000 people lobbing in £30 a year? Would you be appealing shops and businesses that benefit from people riding trails?

Worst of all, would this run the risk of stepping on BC’s ineffectual toes?

None of this is helpful speculation, but my brain just goes to all the questions… But yeah, I reckon I would chip in whatever spare change and/or time I can spare…

I think this is one of those better to have tried and failed moments.

Or maybe a chicken or egg moment?

I am more of a trail builder than ‘advocacier’ but I am involved with both, so see the problems from all sides. I have met lots of really passionate people who willingly give countless hours of their lives each year to this cause. They constantly meet with LAF’s, badger the council and liaise with landowners to try and improve ‘our’ lot.

In some pockets of the UK there have been breakthroughs and we all now extoll the virtues of these destinations, often driving miles to enjoy them. These area’s have been won by sheer willpower and thousands of hours of behind the scenes, often frustrating emails and meetings.

Now imagine what these amazing people could achieve with some actual money behind them…

Maybe this comes down to a trust thing?
I will admit to knowing Chris and I know how much of his life he devotes to this cause. For what its worth, if he can’t pull this off, I’m not sure anybody can.

I look on with a hint of jealousy from up here in Calderdale to Sheffields achievements and consider them a model worth following.

‘If’ you could persuade a million people to set up a direct debit for a pound a month and it failed, what have we each actually lost versus what we might gain…

I will admit to knowing Chris and I know how much of his life he devotes to this cause. For what its worth, if he can’t pull this off, I’m not sure anybody can.

That’s really kind, thanks Jase.

 

 

And I can’t help thinking people need more than just advice on setting up websites and obtaining insurance, positive engagement with other local user groups, land owners and local authorities will be the most difficult part for many to navigate

Oh yeah 100%! But you’d be amazed at how a ‘professional image’ makes a difference in the kind of spaces we need to push. And a well done website can be working for you when you’re busy doing other things. But this is just small thing. That initial investment would help those local groups step up and establish themselves to then push for more.

 

None of this is helpful speculation, but my brain just goes to all the questions

It’s really helpful and very welcome. Challenge and debate from the community will help shape the idea for the community. So it’s vital.

 

I reckon “fair redistribution” is probably the biggest challenge,

Yep but I think I’ve got this bit worked out too. As contributors register, e.g. a shop, they nominate the region they wish to feed into. Then, when the overall pot gets reinvested, you simply split it by the relevant percentages.

I’d do the proposed “negligible” amount for a national fund, but for anything more I’d want to see that it’s being spent locally or in areas I can get to.

Absolutely. And that would happen with diligence from your local groups

There is no getting around the honeypots and deserts is there, as this is mostly due to the topography of an area.

For those flatter area’s, I guess LUBP, NBP, SBP, pumptracks, etc, are the answer.

I’m all for it, I’d happily donate a few quid now and again, but this

 I’ve seen plenty of people dodging parking charges

Yeah, I’ve seen that as well, whenever I’ve ridden at say; Cannock there’s a sizable (let’s call them a minority in hope rather than expectation) that will avoid paying for parking even when they know the money from those machines goes directly to fund trail repairs and expansion. You’ve your work cut out that for sure