The Tories – for those of us old enough to remember 1st hand

Nationalisation of industries where free competition was possible has benefitted us all. However, monopolies such as water would have best remained public IMO as a public monopoly is no less efficient than a private monopoly but more expensive as there are share holders to pay. Would you really go back to a monopoly telephone provider?

As said before, they still are a monopoly, but "free competition" has only benefited the shareholder and no one else. Aside from this, is it a good idea to have electricity in the hands of a French state owned company or the recent acquisition of a large chunk of rail and transport network bought by a German state owned company?

When you vote for a government you don't want or expect a union to dictate government policy (unless you voted Labour at the time in which case you knew you were voting for a trade union funded political party).

I'm trying to figure out whether it was bad to be voting for something that was union backed or what we have today where political parties are dictated to by businessmen.

To loosely quote US President Obama: "A free market was never meant to be a free license to take whatever you can get, however you can get it."

Which is one of the many legacies of Thatcherism.

Edukator, you're a teacher, what the **** do you know about the coal industry?

So only people who worked in the coal industry know about the coal industry? Is that what you're saying?

And what exactly was Scargill right about?

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I haven't read every single post. Has anyone mentioned giving the "Argies" a damn good kicking.

And what exactly was Scargill right about

Scargill claimed early on that was an agenda to close the pits whether they were economical or not
This was denied by the gov

one of them was right

Scargill claimed early on that was an agenda to close the pits whether they were economical or not

He may well have been bang on the money with that one…

For those having a go at Thatch for closing the pits, a few minutes on the history section of the NUM website might be enlightening. Obviously they hate the Tories, but wait til you see the vitriol for Labour governments in the 50s 60s and 70s who closed uneconomic pits.

And besides, we'd have either closed a lot of pits or not signed Kyoto in the 90s anyway, think it through…

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I haven't read every single post. Has anyone mentioned giving the "Argies" a damn good kicking.

Wrong. Tory govt in Mexico 86, Labour govt in Japan/Korea 02.

I know quite a lot about the coal industry, mainly from an economic point of view, so I know that economically viable pits were closed especially when you integrate the social cost of closing them. The majority of miners knew that too and were prepared to compromise their political ideals to save their jobs and communities. Only their leader who was not dependant on a job in the pits or a mining community stopped a compromise being reached. A case of a bourgeois communist sacrificing his comrades on the alter of his own ego and ideals. A secret ballot would have saved the industry.

Oh and I worked in the A-series engine plant in Longbridge in 78 so demarkation disputes, sabotage, the closed shop, restrictive practices, theft and plain idleness are things I do know about.

Edit: to sum up research at Aberystwyth it was Thatcher who closed the uneconomically viable pits and Scargill that closed the economically viable ones.

For those having a go at Thatch for closing the pits

it wasn't just the pits though, that was her personal crusade & she couldn't have given 2 figs how many lives she destroyed doing it – it had absolutely nothing to do with economics
no, it was every other manufacturing company that was hit that did the real damage across the vast parts of the country

She set out to destroy the working classes by any means she could

bring back maggie, be interseting to see what her party of the day would do now.

uplink – that's a view you often hear expressed, but I have to admit I struggle to comprehend it.

Why was she doing this, do you think? For what purpose?

For what purpose?

Political dogma

I still don't understand. What do you mean?

uplink – are you there?

"Wrong. Tory govt in Mexico 86, Labour govt in Japan/Korea 02."

Gold star!

The only time I supported the IRA was when they tried to blow the
Tories up.

>The only time I supported the IRA was when they tried to blow the
Tories up.

Nice! What a pleasant chap you must be.

Yes and an honest one too! 😉

Yup, internment was not the solution. Funny how Brown and Blair introduced similar measures in their fight against terror (freedom fighters). Lock people up without trial and their communities get upset. Management of the troubles was not a Thatcher strong point.

Scargill built Thatcher. He gave her the green light to break the unions, and the NUM in particular, through the illegal strike. Andrew Marr put it nicely in one of his recent history shows – Thatcher was very, very lucky with who her enemies were. Derek Hatton was another one, like 10 Christmas' rolled into one for the Tories. I've heard it argued that both Scargill and Hatton were MI6 plants – tounge in cheek, but certainly you couldn't have invented two more effective tools for furthering Conservative policy in 80s Britain.

I fail to understand how anyone other than an Essex barrow boy could give the tories the time of day

+1

"The only time I supported the IRA was when they tried to blow the
Tories up"

+1

Their remodelling of Manchester city centre was better IMHO

The only time I supported the IRA was when they tried to blow the
Tories up.

I remember thinking, as a child when that happened, how it would have been great if they'd got Maggie.

As a grown-up, I can understand that there were also many other people who were simply doing their jobs; aides, secretaries, catering staff, cleaners etc, who were in no way responsible for anything in NI. Did they deserve to die?

Maggie and the Tories may be scum, and I for one won't mourn her, but I can't condone any act of war or terrorism where innocent people are killed. That's Human Life we're talking about.

LOL When has a Torie been human

Falklands.
Riots.
Miners' strike. I remember being out on a night out in Wakefield mid 84 and seeing van after van after van of police setting off just before dawn – it was almost military in its scale & coordination.
13% interest rates meaning £300+ repayments on a £30k mortgage.
unemployment – way higher per capita than it is now, or certainly seemed so at the time.
the death of heavy industry, including one that I worked in for a while. I think that particular company's demise was more about biting off more than it could chew in terms of acquiring competitors, than directly as a result of the government, but I could be wrong.
Gulf War I – never finished the job off
Militant Tendency, Scargill & the Socialist Workers' Party, among others. The death of the GLC

I could go on for hours

One thing people forget, Thatcher ran an environmental agenda way before it was cool. To hear a lot of people (largely tories funnilly enough) speak you'd think that environmental policies are a nu-labour creation and a recent development, Maggie's early policies seem to be completely forgotten.

Not to say that she wasn't an evil space robot, but she did have her moments.

Edukator what exactley do you know about coal mining apart from the 'economics' that you read about in the Telegraph? Yeah you had a summer job in a car plant– big deal. as one of your beloved said "put up or shut up"

13% interest rates meaning £300+ repayments on a £30k mortgage.

I think you'll find that interest rates hit 17% under the Tories.

Give credit where credit's due …….. the Tories certainly know how to give us sky-high interest rates – not just sky-high unemployment. Although obviously both go hand in hand.

I'm sure they probably did; but I'm thinking of my first mortgage here, taken out in 1990.

Only just sold that b*stard f*cking house too.

I remember when there was a couple allowance tax when buying a property
and the Tories put a panic for people to rush through to buy and then shortly after the dead line the intrest rates went up and then through the roof.

Also I remember walking down Wapping High rd and came upto the Sun news
paper and there was a print strike at the time A peaceful one at that. Then Thatchers Army of Police working with Murdoch Charged at the
people on horses and causing alot of injuries.

grantway nothing much has changed! murdoch runs the tory party 🙄

murdoch runs the tory party

I believe that Rupert Murdoch also had a quiet word in Peter Mandelson's and Tony Blair's ears about what a New Labour government could, and couldn't do.

Not bad for a foreigner without even a vote in UK elections. Don't believe for a moment that the Sun's "support" for New Labour for 13 years came with 'no strings attached'.

Which is ironic considering that the Unions had no influence at all despite bankrolling New Labour.

Rather tha ask for my credentials colnagokid and Mitch, test them. It's easy to make a laughing stock of people who haven't got a clue. Go on, make a fool of me. So far I've made contributions that are a mix of fact and interpretation. Challenge my facts and argue against my interpretation if you disagree with me or think I'm bullshitting.

Edukator how old are you?

One thing people forget, Thatcher ran an environmental agenda way before it was cool.

???????

I must have missed that. Maybe you could explain?

I must have missed that. Maybe you could explain?

It was when the Greens started making impressive gains in Europe and Thatcher responded by making very vague green noises in an attempt to pre-emptive any simular developments in the UK. She didn't actually do anything – just talked a little on the subject.

So old I haven't worked for eight years Pigface.

Yeah you had a summer job in a car plant– big deal.

Even if you do provide interesting relevant credentials on this site you will be mocked.

Although the hole in the ozone layer and tackling CFCs happened on her watch I suppose?

Met Eddie Shah last night.

For those who don't know him he revolutionised the newspaper industry.

His terrifying stories about the unions confirmed my suspicions.

Utterly fantastic chap; 'fraid I'll carry on voting tory unless someone more right wing whose not totally bigoted come along.