The Tories – for those of us old enough to remember 1st hand

Edukator – Member

The conservatives have always had lousy economic numbers during the first few years of their mandates as the clear up the economic mess left by Labour. You can't congratulate Blair for the first two years of his mandate because he was riding on the result of years conservative good management. Thatcher was elected after the winter of discontent and it took a while to pick up the pieces.

Labour: tax busines more, introduce labour laws that are expensive for the employer, allow sabotage of the work place by a minority of communist fanatics, expand the public sector and pay people not to work.

Consevative: tax business less, limit union powers and favour democracy in the work place, reign in public spending and encourage people to work with measures such as the £1000 to start a buisiness under Thatcher.

That's why the economy does better under the conservatives. I believe that can be combined with measures to assure equality in education and health that I call caring capitalism so my sympathies would lie with the Liberals if I had a vote.

Edukator – if you think your extreme right-wing views, your adoration of Thatcher, and your ranting about "communist fanatics in the workplace" and "people getting paid not to work", could somehow be represented by the Liberal Democrats, then either, you know absolutely nothing about the LibDems or, you're even more stupid than I thought.

After your suggestion that Argentina has had a stable economy in recent years, and now your claim that the LibDems could represent the views of a right-wing Thatcherite, I can't wait to find out your next farcical comment will be. Keep it up mate 🙂

Some parts of the US, roach.

I'm only 29 but know enough of what it was like in the 80s with Thatcher! Out local tory MP still believes in hanging!

I used Argentinia as an example of a country where high inflation led to a series of woes. Try reading my posts again.

You are confusing my impartial presentation of the ideaologies of the UK parties with my own views and opinions Ernie.

He who pays the piper calls the tune: back in the day the Labour party was funded by the unions and the Conservative party by big business. Now both parties are in the pockets of their corporate pay masters.

The scary thing is our kids will remember how bad things are under this shower. The end of boom and bust? How arrogant and naive…Time for a change of govt and politics. End short termism and lets run the country like a business not to for votes….

How do we do that?

lets run the country like a business

Take the money and run!

ideaologies

It's 'ideologies'. Glad to edukate 😉

By your rational, it would mean that no matter what career path you took, as long as you work hard at it then you should all earn the same money?

No, I'm not. You are being absurd. I've tried to give serious responses to your points, but your responses to mine are fatuous.

Did I say everyone should earn the same money, or did I say that I thought a multiple of 20 times from top to bottom was fair?

How do you enforce salary ranges?

Anything to add to the debate Heather? No, thought not. You'll find half a dozen typos/spelling errors and so on most of my longer posts because I know what I've just written and can't see any point in reading it agian. However, if I do make an effort I'll run rings around you. A before you say spell checker, over 50 words in this post so far are incorrectly spelt according to my computer.

Well you could (not saying you should) look at the average wage then apply 100% tax on everything 20 times greater than that.

Obviously I've only given that 3 seconds thought, and if I doubled that I might come up with something better, but it does answer your question.

But maybe next time you could give it 3 seconds thought instead and save me doing all this typing?

OK – how do we have a workable enforced salary range?

I can't be arsed. You're wasting my time. I don't claim to have thought up these ideas you know. They've been put forward before by eminent sociologists and economists. Go and look them up if you don't believe me.

RPRT, don't call debate absurd because not everyone conforms to your point of view, now back on topic

Did I say everyone should earn the same money

Would it be as hard say as psychiatric nurse, or a bomb disposal expert, or an underwater welder, or a trawlerman

So out of your list above, who deserves more money?

How for example do you differ between a CEO of a company who runs a business employing say 2000 people or a care worker? Who deserves more money? Or should they earn the same?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

rightplacerighttime – how can you propose things that you don't understand? People can be full of all sorts of idealistic views but what's the point without proposing practical steps?

RPRT, don't call debate absurd because not everyone conforms to your point of view, now back on topic

I didn't call debate absurd, I called you absurd. I even spelled out exactly why, but apparently you can't remember what we've already discussed. Just after you said it was the poor who drive consumption I said that I thought a max salary for a CEO might be 20 times their lowest paid employee's wage. Then when I asked how "hard" someone might be able to work in order to justify a huge salary (maybe hundreds of times that of an average emplyee) you asked if I thought everyone should earn the same money. So to sum up, you are absurd, because you ask questions to which you have already been given an answer.

It's got nothing to do with your opinions or ideology, just your propensity for spouting twaddle.

rightplacerighttime – how can you propose things that you don't understand? People can be full of all sorts of idealistic views but what's the point without proposing practical steps?

Because you're baiting me. It's why FoI requests can be rejected as vexatious. I already made my point, but your response was similar to a toddler starting the "why?…" because… "why?…" because… loop.

I told you, look it up. Try Googling "maximum wage".

just your propensity for spouting twaddle

And with that sir, i am forever in your shadow.

Is this nonsense still going on? I must have dozed off…

I work all night, I work all day, to pay the bills I have to pay
Ain't it sad
And still there never seems to be a single penny left for me
That's too bad
In my dreams I have a plan
If I got me a wealthy man
I wouldn't have to work at all, I'd fool around and have a ball…
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man's world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man's world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It's a rich man's world
A man like that is hard to find but I can't get him off my mind
Ain't it sad
And if he happens to be free I bet he wouldn't fancy me
That's too bad
So I must leave, I'll have to go
To Las Vegas or Monaco
And win a fortune in a game, my life will never be the same…
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man's world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man's world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It's a rich man's world
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man's world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man's world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It's a rich man's world
It's a rich man's world

Because you're baiting me.

Well maybe getting you to say anything of substance is like trying to get blood out of a stone. Anyway, the maximum wage is a daft idea right?

However, if I do make an effort I'll run rings around you.

Hmm. The last time i noticed your efforts you were claiming that having a relative on Sky TV gave you more credentials to speak on the miners' strike than anyone else. For Michael Howard it was the night, might it be the playground for your good self? If not, I think it's time for one of the little white tablets and a lie down.

I can't remember the tax paid in Thatchers day but I can remember the growing costs today.

Before April the 1st my car tax was £175 a year. Now its £200. Ontop of this I damaged the suspension on my car recently (£150). Then theres the massive tax on fuel, NI going up, Council tax rises, water rate rises, gas bill massive rises, food thats increasing.

You name it. Vote for who ever you want but my criteria would be to vote on current performance. I don't think Labour is covering itself in glory.

Yet again he Conservatives (remember Hague) are being led by an empty suit so it looks like Labour again. Depressing.

>so it looks like Labour again.

You're voting Labour ? 😯

Never. Im saying the Conservatives arent helping themselves. They picked a safe leader who doesn't seem to have anything leadership-wise/inspiring' about him

hora,

I've tried to make this point already, but there is more to this than politics.

Things are getting more expensive due to the fundamental limits of economic growth on our planet.

In the last 20 years the world population has grown from less than 5 billion to nearly 7 billion AND those of us in the west in particular are consuming ever more resources. We are running short of wood, fish, water, space and perhaps most importantly, oil.

It is not possible to legislate to increase any of these things. IMO the party to vote for is the one that is most likely to accept that these things are becoming problematic rather than peddling the story that economic growth can go on indefinitely.

I'm afraid it's inevitable that many things will become increasingly expensive in the future, whoever is in power.

Can someone define "rich" for me? I need to know if I should be envious or smug.

Ok, so I'll finally wade into this… and not on one side or the other..

RPRT – are you familiar with the trickle down effect?

I'm familiar with the term, yes. But you'll be unsurprised to hear that I don't subscribe to the thoery.

But you'll be unsurprised to hear that I don't subscribe to the thoery.

Can't say that I blame you; it was one of those ideas that people got very excited about in the late 80s and early 90s and is now taken about as seriously as Francis Fukuyama's 'End of History' thesis.

Mind you, people still read Ayn Rand and find 'truth' in it so there's no hope really.

Things are getting more expensive…

Which things? Food, travel, motoring, computing, telecoms, clothes etc have never been cheaper.

Which things? Food, travel, motoring, computing, telecoms, clothes etc have never been cheaper.

Just to take one example – but an important one I think – petrol/diesel?

Some people might include that as a cost in your categories of travel and motoring, but of course it is having a knock on effect into ALL of the other areas.

Happy to go through them one by one, but maybe someone else would like a go?

This used to say something deeply profound that would have transformed this country. But re-reading earlier posts, I can't see the point now.

Good price comparison chart at the bottom of the page of this weblink

Historic Inflation

luked2,

Can you try making your point again – not sure what you mean.

But you'll be unsurprised to hear that I don't subscribe to the thoery.

Purely interested here – why does it not work? All the money that is 'made', where does it go?

EDIT: would you beleive the rich keep it to themselves,they dont enegae in great acts of philanthrophy, but they keep it to themselves. Perhaps you could explain why it trickles down?
I like the fact that tiger roach just posted questions on every one of their posts and never answered anything…. a rather poor debating technique.

I dont get that link re inflation either.
This notion that everyne who is wealthy has worked hard for it, with the implication that everyone poor is lazy and has not worked hard is BS. The trickle down effect is also complete BS as well.

FROM WIKI: in his Cross of Gold speech 1896, Democrat William Jennings Bryan said:

There are those who believe that, if you will only legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, their prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea, however, has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests up on them.

molgrips,

Have a look at "money as debt" on youtube – it explains how money becomes concentrated in the hands of the already wealthy.

You need to understand how money is created before you can understand why it doesn't "trickle down" from the wealthy to the poor.

Well surely if rich people make a ton of money, they spend it in the economy? And if they hoard it in banks, well then that's extra capital for the banks to use money to make even more, no?

Yes of course the rich make a lot, but they don't keep it as gold bullion in a safe forever, do they?

Junkyard – well that ain't true and as I didn't get answers I kept pushing then got bored.