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apparently tesla aren't making model s or x in right-hand-drive any more. guess big cars in the uk is a small market?
apparently tesla aren’t making model s or x in right-hand-drive any more. guess big cars in the uk is a small market?
Starting to get a bit of competition in that market now. Lotus Eletre, BMW I7 , Mercedes EQS etc.
Tesla starting to look a little dated against those.
I think Tesla are looking a bit dated overall. I ordered an i4 a few months back and it was between that and a Model 3. The BMW was IMO better in just about every way.
I think Teslas look ok, well the ones I'm looking at. I don't really look at Model S's, but I'm looking at cars and the 3 is good, and very competitive on price.
Re. batteries, the decay isn't linear with age. My leaf is 8 years old (!) and the rather crude battery is still on 11 out of 12bars so likely 80, 85% , and I charge to 100% most nights a year at home
Tesla probably the best overall car if you want / have to just get up the road.
The charging network is also second to none IMO. It has to be their main ISP.
But if you want something interesting then you are going to go for another brand every time
Tesla probably the best overall car if you want / have to just get up the road.
really, still ? The range numbers on many competitors are up there too now, i4, Polestar etc, in cars made by long established car manufacturers, with decent pedigrees on build quality and handling.
Yeah, I was including the charging network as part of that description though.
Teslas have to be the worst looking cars on the road, literally all the other manufacturers have better looking vehicles. I just purchased new car stayed with petrol though after the queues I had seen this winter just not prepared to wait around life is way too short.
Tesla's charger network isn't looking as good as it was. There are so many on the road and people seem drawn to them so they fill up and create queues, according to my workmates Tesla drivers queue for Tesla chargers even when there are others unused.
apparently tesla aren’t making model s or x in right-hand-drive any more. guess big cars in the uk is a small market?
they haven’t made RHD S or X for a couple of years now if I remember correctly. Having said that, there was a big pause in production for LHD ones. I’d imagine that they’re still wrangling LHD back orders to some degree.
The U.K. is probably a small market all round. There are a few places that still drive on the RHS other than the U.K.
I had a Model X on order but when it became apparent there’d be no new ones in 2022 I got a model Y. Not expecting a RHD Model X before 2024.
The range numbers on many competitors are up there too now, i4, Polestar etc, in cars made by long established car manufacturers, with decent pedigrees on build quality and handling.
Polestar - long established?
It is great that there are now many manufacturers properly moving into EVs rather than using fleet-based green-washing marketing blather.
Are Polestar not basically Volvo ?
Yes Polestar are Volvo although confusingly Volvo also make electric cars under their own name. Explains the boxy boring design though.
Yes, I had a go in one, it felt very Volvo. The seats were excellent 😁
Odd my parents showed up in a polestar 2 tonight.
Very crashy drive over potholes and bumps.
A combo of high centre console /low roof and high floor pan made it feel very small.
Technically, Polestar is owned by Geely ( as are Volvo )
I'd like an iD7 estate, please thanks.
What a ridiculous argument blaming Tesla for whatever you think is wrong about electric cars. It may be fast and have a long range but my Model 3 is still more efficient in miles per kWh than your ID3, which manages a maximum range of 280 miles on a battery bigger than the model 3 Long Range. It’s also slightly heavier than the Tesla.
Can someone translate KWh measures of efficiency into an mpg or ppm ICE equivalent?
Taking an ICE Mondeo sized car in non extreme weather that would cost about 15p/mile. (55mpg / £8 gallon).
How far does a KWH get me in a "Mondeo" under the same conditions?
There is a lot of its 50p/KWH on this charger but only 20p/KWH on that one over there but I literally have no idea how that equates. I know we will all get there as it becomes more prevalent.
That (along with charge speed, range and towing capacity) would be key to me understanding the economics given the higher up front cost. If I was regularly on a public charger that was filling me up because of range limitations but it was effectively 30ppm then that would be a serious barrier to a shorter range vehicle.
Anyone who can enlighten a dinosaur burner?
kWh/km.
Which is actually a stupid measurement as nobody measures ICs in kWh/km or B.T.U. An actual meaningful measurement would be Ah/km since that's what battery capacity (aka volume) is actually measured in and would be analogous to litres or gallons.
The energy content of a battery is usually expressed indirectly by its capacity in ampere-hours; to convert ampere-hour (Ah) to watt-hours (Wh), the ampere-hour value must be multiplied by the voltage of the power source. This value is approximate, since the battery voltage is not constant during its discharge, and because higher discharge rates reduce the total amount of energy that the battery can provide
Can someone translate KWh measures of efficiency into an mpg or ppm ICE equivalent?
It's... Complicated. 🤣
The king and short of it, is that currently running an EV isn't really any cheaper than running a dino-burner, unless you have a silly cheap overnight leccy tarrif and/or solar.
Ev's are less efficient at motorway speeds, and rapid charging on the public network is the most expensive form of charging - so if you're doing lots of longer journeys then that's going to be more expensive with the current fuel and electric prices. If you do lots of short trips from home and can charge over night on a cheap tariff then it'll be much cheaper than a diesel car.
If you do a mix, it'll probably work out about the same.
The king and short of it, is that currently running an EV isn’t really any cheaper than running a dino-burner, unless you have a silly cheap overnight leccy tarrif and/or solar.
If you have a smart meter and home charger that silly cheap electricity is available to anyone who can use the phone or internet.
Even without a smart meter, if you hade eco7 you would be around half the cost of fossil fuel. Worst case you would on standard tariff which is still cheaper per mile than petrol.
All the public chargers where I live are free and chargers at work at 20p/kWh so basically most people would be better off per mile.
If you have no home charger or do loads of long distance driving then maybe the costs are similar but fir everyone else the per mile running cist is very favourable.
It’s… Complicated
Not really. In the UK everyone except Tesla drivers measures economy in miles per kWh. 3 is poor, 4.5 is very good, most cars are between that but the good ones aren't always the ones you expect.
The king and short of it, is that currently running an EV isn’t really any cheaper than running a dino-burner, unless you have a silly cheap overnight leccy tarrif
Well, for long motorway trips that may be true but most of our trips aren't (unless you are a business traveller). Anyone with a driveway can get a cheap overnight rate, but it does put up the cost of your daytime rate so if you tumble dry every towel in the house once a day and only drive 2 miles to work it's not worth it. For us, with a modest commute, the saving over diesel pays for our entire electricity bill. Commuting and trips under 170 miles or so (which is almost all of it) cost us 1.5p a mile.
I seem to be the exception to the rule, but I find my iX3 is more efficient on a long run , including motorway use. If I sit a 67 and avoid sharp braking and overtake whilst maintaining that speed , then I get more m/kWh than I do whilst driving “round town”.
That does seem odd. Doesn't the i3 do something odd like not regenerate when using the brake pedal, and only if you specifically enable it when you lift off?
It's also worth noting that all these cheap overnight tarrifs are more expensive during the day than a normal tarrif, so your regular electricity use costs more
Personally I've found running an EV costing a lot less money than any other car. Electricity prices are down again, and you have much lower maintenance costs, any emissions tolls etc are much cheaper. It's a non argument in my experience
'Odd my parents showed up in a polestar 2 tonight.
Very crashy drive over potholes and bumps.
A combo of high centre console /low roof and high floor pan made it feel very small.'
And not enough space for the chips on your shoulders 🙂
And not enough space for the chips on your shoulders 🙂
Actually **** it edit - the chips were in the passenger's side floor as we drove back from the chippy.
That's the only justification I'm giving you for my opinion on the polestar 2 being a big car with a small interior for tall people.
It’s also worth noting that all these cheap overnight tarrifs are more expensive during the day than a normal tarrif, so your regular electricity use costs more
Not necessarily. I’ve just swapped to Ovo and the day rate is cheaper than I’ve been on (although standing charge is slightly higher) and if you use a smart charger via their app it’s 10p per unit to charge the battery at any time of the day. Only catch is that you need to specify a time it needs charged by and it does it when demand is low. If you need an immediate charge it’s normal rate but for coming home at night and charging by next morning it’ll be perfect. Not tested any of this yet since car arrived three weeks early and wallbox date is still a month away. At least local council chargers are only 28p/unit. Last charge that added 40miles cost £3.09.
We tested an MG4 and then bought one. Jumped on their 0% finance deal, a great PX for the Fabia my better half has had for seven years and a discount off list price. This does mean we need to prioritise getting a 7kw charger which - like everything in our house - isn't going to be that simple.
Should get it sorted in the next month. Until then we'll work round it with super slow charging off a normal plug and some charging away from home. I was attempting to be unimpressed with electric cars but that MG is a really well sorted thing. Apart from the very aggressive lane assist and distinctly average rear view, we couldn't find anything to dislike.
Coming next Friday.
It’s also worth noting that all these cheap overnight tarrifs are more expensive during the day than a normal tarrif, so your regular electricity use costs more
Yes. but you may be able to offset that if you can schedule your washing/dishwasher overnight since they are some of the biggest consumers; and also put a timer on your immersion heater for hot water. Our off-peak electricity is about the same price as our gas but the immersion heater is more efficient.
I saved about £20 per month on an EV tariff, before I actually had an electric car - simply by using washing machine, dishwasher and water heating during the cheap hours. Yes I know you’re apparently not supposed to due to the increased risk of burning to death in your beds. I always thought that was what your smoke and fire alarms are there to prevent but there we go.
🤷🏻♂️ I got my first EV because the idea of commuting 200 miles twice a week seemed a better idea with no tailpipe emissions. That it came with fearsome acceleration and free charging was a nice bonus. At no time did I think that a <4s 0-60 mph car would be a money saver over a Prius or Audi A6 or Skoda blah blah. But getting that Model S convinced me that I needed to avoid using an ICE from that point on.
Even my SO was sufficiently enamoured of using the Model S that they test drove several EVs before replacing a MB with a Model 3 (after trying the available models at the time of Nissan Leaf, Jaguar I-pace, KIA eNiro, and Hyundai something or other).
I really hope that ICE cars stop production soon and EVs become dominant.
It’s also worth noting that all these cheap overnight tarrifs are more expensive during the day than a normal tarrif, so your regular electricity use costs more
They are at the moment, as TOU tariffs have to average out at the EPG cap or the supplier doesn't get the discount. So if the off peak rate is cheaper, the peak rate has to be more expensive.
Before everything went mad though Octopus Go was cheap off peak but the peak rate was exactly the same as their normal fixed rate; others were only slightly more expensive.
That said, you don't have to shift very much into the peak rate to make it worth it. We don't do many miles in our EV but that and running the dishwasher overnight means our average is well below what we'd pay on the standard fixed rate.
Several years ago the per mile fuel cost of our Zoe was a tenth of the petrol Fabia we also had. Petrol has gone up a fair bit since then, electricity has just less than doubled, so it's still way cheaper.
It’s… Complicated
Not really. In the UK everyone except Tesla drivers measures economy in miles per kWh.
Miles per effort (work done).
It kinda makes sense but then you still have battery chemistry to battle with so at the lower end of a battery charge you will use more ampere hours for the same effort since the volts will have dropped. So, all other variables being equal, do the same journey at full charge and at just about dead and you will get different kWh/km figures. So you're not necessarily getting an accurate representation (I have no idea what voltage drop off looks like before anyone starts, I'm just sounding this out). So yes, it is complicated, in the same way as an ICE where as you use fuel the efficiency increases.
Odd my parents showed up in a polestar 2 tonight.
Very crashy drive over potholes and bumps.
A combo of high centre console /low roof and high floor pan made it feel very small
It's hard to argue against a PS2 feeling cramped (although my old car was an Octavia Estate so it's not a fair direct comparison). It's great for me, 99% of the time I'm the only one in mine and the boot is actually a decent size (with the hatchback opening making it great for getting a bike in with the rear seats down). I do still often catch my legs on the steering wheel getting in though as it has a weirdly high floor (sloping down to the pedals), plenty of room once you're in, just a bit odd getting in.
I don't really get the whole 'crashy' drive thing though (but it's mentioned in a lot of reviews so not just an opinion on here). I have the Performance pack so firmer suspension and 20" wheels and the ride still seems fine to me. Yes a big pothole is more jarring than in my Octavia with it's squidgy suspension and 15s but just day to day driving I never feel the PS2 is harsh let alone 'crashy'. I'd probably get something different if my daily commute included the Arenberg Trench but on standard poorly maintained UK roads it's fine.
standard poorly maintained UK roads
Depends where you live, round here (North Ayrshire) the roads are terrible and in Glasgow you can lose small children in the potholes. Down south is luxury in comparison.
Point being, there is no standard.
A combo of high centre console /low roof and high floor pan made it feel very small
Exactly my impression after test driving one.
do the same journey at full charge and at just about dead and you will get different kWh/km figures
You don't see a noticeable change as a driver - at least I havn't in an ETron*. As the voltage drops from high to low then more current is needed to achieve the same power. This is less efficient as the higher currents will drive more thermal losses but the difference will be pretty small. I expect that this effect is corrected for via calibration, so the end result to the customer still looks linear.
*Except for when using the top couple of % of the battery. When absolutely full there is no regen, so efficiency drops. Comes back again once below 97/98% ish so not a real world issue.
Anyone interested in industry developments, I think most OEMS will have V2G capability in 3 years time to meet this mandate https://driivz.com/blog/california-bill-bidirectional-charging/#:~:text=California%2C%20the%20EV%20adoption%20and,state%20after%20January%201%2C%202027.
Might kill the home solar and battery storage market though!
Might kill the home solar and battery storage market though!
Why do you think that? What good is your battery if someone has it parked 60 miles away?
What good is your battery if someone has it parked 60 miles away?
Presumably if it's plugged in 60 miles away and someone's draining your power then you'll still get money back for it.
I seem to be the exception to the rule, but I find my iX3 is more efficient on a long run , including motorway use. If I sit a 67 and avoid sharp braking and overtake whilst maintaining that speed , then I get more m/kWh than I do whilst driving “round town”.
Yeah round town is terrible for EV I find long runs way better too.
Finally, after an almost 9 month wait my i4 has arrived... Yet to be sullied by having bikes piled in the back etc, but that will come.
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Nice parking ..... gotta watch them alloys!
Yeah round town is terrible for EV I find long runs way better too.
Isn't that the same for ALL vehicles?
It's acceleration that uses power, once it's up to speed then it doesn't take that much to keep it there (drag dependant)