Wow. That’s huge reductions – 15/16%. Wouldn’t want to be one of the 16,000 folk that took delivery of a Tesla in the UK in December, especially if they own them. My pal has a dual motor 3 as a company car and it’s genuinely one of the quickest cars I’ve ever been in, this side of an Aerial Atom – but as he has no stake in it’s residual value he won’t be at all bothered.

Seems to be viewed as a negative story but it’s great. Other manufs will be under pressure to follow suit, so we’ll have competition. I reckon UK prices are over inflated, because demand is more than supply and they could get away with it. Check out the price of a Nissan Leaf in the USA.

Check out the price of a Nissan Leaf in the USA.

The MRSP as stated online or the actual bottom line price as paid when your driving away.

In the USA those are very different

Wow. That’s huge reductions – 15/16%. Wouldn’t want to be one of the 16,000 folk that took delivery of a Tesla in the UK in December, especially if they own them.

equally hilarious (as the article points out) for those who’ve ordered but not taken delivery yet – they either have to stick to the agreed price, or cancel & re-order but now they’re at the back of the queue again!

That said have no idea what percentage of people actually buy these outright vs lease or company car. It’s a lot of dosh even at these reduced prices!

equally hilarious (as the article points out) for those who’ve ordered but not taken delivery yet – they either have to stick to the agreed price, or cancel & re-order but now they’re at the back of the queue again!

They have done similar to powerwall customers only it’s to pump the price up right before install and then say pay up or we will sell it to the next guy.

Shoddy and bullying business practice put me off the powerwall and while I still think the Tesla vehicle ecosystem is far superior to any other manufacturers……I shan’t be giving them my cash.

@molgrips

Other manufs will be under pressure to follow suit, so we’ll have competition.

Could it be because there’s increasing competition from legacy manufacturers, and possibly Musk’s twitter mentalism is rapidly turning people off Tesla? And the auto-pilot crashes I guess?

I seem to be increasingly seeing reviews including owner reviews slating the quality of Tesla’s especially for the price. Other manufacturers have caught them up in the EV world and it is only the batteries and supercharger network that now make Tesla’s desirable.

A lot of people get giddy when test driving a Tesla, but most of it is generic EV compared to ICE, not Tesla specific.

already got an email from nationwide leasing with £125 off a month for a model Y.

My Kia e-Niro lease with Nationwide end in April. I was going to extend the lease for another year but your post prompted me to check Nationwide and the prices have certainly reduced from outrageous to merely laughable. 3 yrs and 10k per year on Model Y rear drive reduced from £677 to £590 per month. Trouble is a Niro EV lease on same terms is £570 per month (£160 per month more than I’m paying now) so if I was prepared to cough up that per month may as well have the Model Y.

They have done similar to powerwall customers only it’s to pump the price up right before install and then say pay up or we will sell it to the next guy.

Urban myth maybe? I waited a year after ordering to get my Powerwall installed. The price remained the same as when I placed the order, bloody bargain as the price went up about £2k in that year.

stick to the agreed price, or cancel & re-order but now they’re at the back of the queue again!

I can’t imagine that queue is very long if they’ve just lopped 15% off the price. a quick play on their site shows a bunch of cars in stock and a 1-3 month wait for a custom order

Urban myth maybe? I waited a year after ordering to get my Powerwall installed. The price remained the same as when I placed the order, bloody bargain as the price went up about £2k in that year.

Your supplier took the hit then – was a Q4 2022 issue well publicised – many suppliers couldn’t take the hit and Tesla wouldn’t work with them.

1-3 month wait for a custom order

A colleague of mine did, indeed, only have wait for 3 months for his standard Model 3 co. car.

equally hilarious (as the article points out) for those who’ve ordered but not taken delivery yet – they either have to stick to the agreed price, or cancel & re-order but now they’re at the back of the queue again!

According to several people on the tesla uk facebook page, Tesla are honouring the new price for their order. They’re going through the queue emailing buyers.

Experience from several buyers suggests you get the deal active on day of collection including free mileage etc.

My Tusker order for a Q4 Etron Quattro is now showing as late August 23(was May). There is an ability to cancel/change car up till a month before delivery. Think I’ll cost out an AWD Tesla model 3 and see how it now compares. Will need to be a factory build as need a towbar, but indication is I could have it in April..

I can’t imagine that queue is very long if they’ve just lopped 15% off the price. a quick play on their site shows a bunch of cars in stock and a 1-3 month wait for a custom order

Anybody got any guesses in what will happen to used model 3 prices?

Used prices have dropped a lot already. Might be another small readjustment but wouldn’t think huge. You can already get one for not much more than a used Kia Niro or Hyundai Kona – and having tried both (and gone for a Tesla) they are so much better cars.

Used prices have dropped a lot already.

So a quick autotrader browse – 2019 single motors are starting about £27k, there’s one advert where one is up for £30k, the description says “was £40k, now £37k” so thats been sat for a while 😉

Dual motors are starting about £31k

We need a new car come June (LEV zone in Glasgow) and I’ve been looking about for a while. World anyone like to critique my calculations for savings EV vs Petrol?

We’re doing ~12K miles/year (split maybe 9:3 city:motorway).

If I assume average of 4miles/kWh, 80% charging efficiency 34p/kWh I get yearly costs of £1275. Petrol car assuming 40mile/gallon, £1.5/litre I get £2045. So roughly £800/year cheaper to run an EV.

Does this seem fair? If so, it takes much longer to make the money back on a EV than I thought, though not so bad if electricity prices come back down (seems unlikely anytime soon if at all).

You should do the calculations for an EV tariff like Octopus Go. Depending on your home electricity usage and how much you are willing to move things like washing machines and dishwasher usage to the overnight cheap period it can take only a single full charge of an EV per month on the off-peak to makeup for the increased peak costs.

That indeed looks a lot better – at 12p/kWh I get £1600/year cheaper with the same other values. Not sure that works for us though, which is annoying, as we’ve been told that we can’t have a smart meter (our gas meter is in an odd place and been told they can’t change it and will only do the two meters together).

(our gas meter is in an odd place and been told they can’t change it and will only do the two meters together).

Maybe take that further with your supplier. Octopus installed my smart electricity meter. I should have had a smart gas meter installed at the same time but it wouldn’t fit because of some weird configuration of the pipes in the meter box but there was no problem just installing the electricity meter.

Also consider using solar if you have PV panels. My EV tariff is 11p per kWh for 4 hrs per night so v cheap, but using the Zappi charger I can also charge for free from solar if it’s sunny enough, or set the charger to eg 20% from the supply and 80% from solar, meaning you can put some extra miles on for next to nothing.
Out of interest changing to an EV tariff was cheaper for me even before we got electric cars – just by moving dishwashing, clothes washing and water heating to the night time cheap hours saved about £20 per month. Now with 2 x electric cars should change from about £330 per month total fuel costs down to about £50 charging costs.

As above, you want the cheaper tariff, so get a second and third opinion about the smart meter. We have a smart electricity meter but not gas (because our gas supplier doesn’t offer them yet) so I don’t know why they would insist on both. Speak to Octopus, they’re great.

The best tariff is Intelligent Octopus but you need a car or charger that supports it. We’re on 7.5p/kWh, which we got before the last round of price hikes, but I think long term it’s likely to come back down once the gas prices have come down.

@xntrx
As per Molgrips I just had an electric smart meter installed by Octopus. However I only had electric with them, gas was with someone else. So you could try just shifting electric over to Octopus or consult them. As well as Octopus Go, there are other smart meter tariff options with Octopus such as Octopus Agile, Octopus Tracker and one or two others (^intelligent), so decide which will work best for you.

If so, it takes much longer to make the money back on a EV than I thought, though not so bad if electricity prices come back down (seems unlikely anytime soon if at all).

Petrol prices could also come back down a bit too. By the time you get the money back on an EV the battery will probably be next to useless and car worth less than ICE equivalent that cost £10K less to start with. I don’t think EVs are about long term money saving and more about lessening the environmental impact of pollution (assuming you are charging from renewable energy)

We’ve got an EV coming shortly. It is about money saving for us – if you do decent commuting miles and will charge 100% at home on a suitable Tarif it’s a big saving. Like £2k+ a year saving kind of money

The economics are definitely questionable if you do low mileage, don’t have cheap rate home charging or will need to make any significant use of public charging.

Does this seem fair? If so, it takes much longer to make the money back

not sure I ever thought of an EV as a money saving exercise.

To your arithmetic, while I think Tesla back in 2017 were suggesting close to half the fuel cost my estimates have usually been between 1/2 and 2/3. That’s with regular home electricity. Supercharging with our current Teslas costs rather more per kWh. The convenience and VAT cost I suppose.

The points on off peak tariffs and smart charging are spot on if you want to reduce your costs and can shift your usage. Most of our usage is in the day so it’s not been a change we’ve made. Still cheaper than petrol though.

We are going down the route of solar and battery. Hoping this will cut costs a bit. Though at the expense of capital. System should be running next Friday.

Your new petrol car presumably will avoid the LEV zone charges? If not you might want to factor that in. If so you might want to think about the local emissions and the weak performance you’ll be getting compared to an EV.

By the time you get the money back on an EV the battery will probably be next to useless and car worth less than ICE

can you show your working? What time periods are you estimating for ROI and battery failure?

At 100,000 miles battery degradation is expected to be around 5%. I think that an expected drop of ~17 miles range in mine.

more about lessening the environmental impact of pollution (assuming you are charging from renewable energy)

also about reducing pollution for fuel production. That crude oil doesn’t crack itself, the energy for that comes from somewhere.

Battery life of EV cars assuming there isn’t a fault is considerably longer in terms of miles than an IC engine.
Running costs are more than just charging too. Servicing is cheaper and brakes last a lot longer – I almost never press the brake when driving normally as the regenerative braking does it for me.

At 100,000 miles battery degradation is expected to be around 5%. I think that an expected drop of ~17 miles range in mine.

I can’t help but feel that there’s some exaggeration going on somewhere.

Article in The Times was quoting battery life of 100k.
(New battery tech might change that)

The other thing that bothers me is the very cheap overnight tarrifs.
I’d be very surprised if they carry on long term.

More electric cars = more overnight charging = less spare power.
Smart meters will also reduce the spare capacity also.
There will be a time when the leccy co’s start recouping lost revenue.

Battery life of EV cars assuming there isn’t a fault is considerably longer in terms of miles than an IC engine

Hmmm. My car has 117k on the clock and is sweet as a nut…. Not a cheap car though, and who knows what’s around the corner.

The thing is a battery may still be defined as “OK” but if the range has reduced to 50% of its original then it may be fairly unusable.

can you show your working? What time periods are you estimating for ROI and battery failure?

Nope, I have just guessed (taking something like an old Nissan Leaf) just like anyone else guessed the other way and can’t see into the future anymore than anyone else can. The £10k additional upfront cost is always going to be there though so off to a bad start if the car then also drops to a lower price.

Buying a long term electric car based on a money saving point of view is naive IMO.

As the owner of an older Nissan Leaf that’s just passed 150k KM on the clock I can assure you the overall package of costs is a lot lower than any other car I’ve owned – fuel, servicing, taxes, tolls, reduced parking costs have all been very favourable.

Still on 11 of 12 bars for the fairly primitive battery, but realistically I’d assume I’m at 80% of the original capacity

The £10k additional upfront cost is always going to be there though

it’s only there if you buy new/nearly new, and then run it to destruction/not economical to repair.

So that’s 100k miles by your reckoning. Higher from the optimists. What’s the fuel saving over that distance?

Also, related, and may have been answered already, the £500 luxury car tax, for the first 5 years. When evs stop being exempt from tax will they have to pay this?

what if what if what if what if ……….

My Tesla Model 3 has a battery and drive unit warranty of 120,000 miles. This is more miles than I have ever put onto a car before and that is just whilst it is still in warranty. Actual predicted normal lifespan is 300,000-500,000 miles.
From a cost point of view I calculated on an ev tariff that in 5 years I could afford an extra £10,000 in the cost of the car to be overall neutral in total monthly costs.
That is quite apart from the fact that it is infinitely more pleasurable and fun to drive.

Old Nissan Leafs had terrible battery management and the batteries get trashed really quickly compared to others. There are many high mileage EVs being reported with low battery degradation. Your very high mileage EV might need a battery refurb, some cells might need replacing, but it’s not going to need say, a new EGR valve, new turbo, new exhaust, new injectors, head gasket repair, DPF replacement, timing chain, lambda sensor, camshaft position sensor etc etc etc etc etc etc. Vastly fewer moving parts in an EV and the electronics will last far longer as they aren’t subjected to heat and vibration. An old EV with a refurbished battery will be as good as a new one.

Look at how many ‘what’s wrong with my car?’ threads come up on this forum. That won’t happen with EVs.

Article in The Times was quoting battery life of 100k.
(New battery tech might change that)

It absolutely will. Solid state batteries are coming soon.

The £10k additional upfront cost is always going to be there though

It isn’t. The way that battery prices are falling means they will be cheaper than ICEs soon. I think the only reason they aren’t in the UK is because demand is high. It’s not even £10k now anyway; compare prices of a Nissan Leaf vs a Qasqai or a Juke (it sits somewhere between the two in terms of size).

More electric cars = more overnight charging = less spare power.

Perhaps – but what portion of electricity usage would be non-transport? Also consider that the more solar we roll out, the more daytime electricity we will have. EVs can actually help renewable energy generation because they can store excess charge.

Article in The Times was quoting battery life of 100k.
(New battery tech might change that)

That would be about right for a 30kWh Nissan Leaf with fast charging to max on every charge.

Cell manufactuers publish the number of cycles before detrioration to say 80%. Multiply the number of kms you can get out of a cycle by the number of cycles and you have the battery life. Someone on the renault forum did it for 50kWh Zoé and it came out well over 200 000km being pesimistic in every part of the calculation. If you cycle between 20% and 90% rather than the cell manufacturer’s max and min the battery will last even longer.

Big batteries in cars are more likely to die of old age than over use.

Anyone signed up for the Elli network?
https://www.elli.eco/en/tariffs

I’ve signed up for the free monthly deal, through Audi, but I’ve not be able to determine which networks are included. The card is due to arrive this week, so I guess I’ll find out then, but it all seems a bit opaque.

An old EV with a refurbished battery will be as good as a new one.

Bold statement – hadn’t realised they were building EVs fully with materials that don’t corrode .

The £10k additional upfront cost is always going to be there though

It isn’t. The way that battery prices are falling means they will be cheaper than ICEs soon. I think the only reason they aren’t in the UK is because demand is high. It’s not even £10k now anyway; compare prices of a Nissan Leaf vs a Qasqai or a Juke (it sits somewhere between the two in terms of size).

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/affordable-electric-cars-not-viable-shp5q3p2q