Ask anybody who voted for Tory or Brexit and you STILL will not get a universally coherent answer.

You will Never get a coherent answer in politics but as long as the majority are “happy” that is good enough.

Thank you for your concern about my physical and mental health, after all you of all people should understand the fragility of ones mental state.

😳

Curious to what opportunities you mean?

Their freedom of movement. This is huge for us, we are (or were) an internationalist family, now we’re stuck in the UK – or we could go to the US which would be worse tbh.

ITALY – to slag of a judge’s ruling on a brain cancer due to phone use case. Biased and condescending reporting.

Link to meta-analysis to prove the guardian wrong or go home.

My understanding is that the Guardian were spot on.

Actually they are reshaping the country in the way the majority wants based on the GM result.

Tories were elected on a minority of the vote due to our archaic and dysfunctional system

Very good. Not a member of momentum are you?

I think you’ll find he’s a member of CLITORIS

I still reckon it’s just a lot of hot air from javid for the jambons , in a year’s time they’ll have forgotten about these promises like they did about the divorce bill

You are welcome to whatever opinion you want about the dangers or not of phone use, Raybanwomble. My point was that of all the interesting things happening in the 27 the only thing reported by the Guardian was a controversial ruling in Italy. “condescending” refers to the stuff they chose to report and “biased” because they picked sides with overly vague references to science which proved them right when proof is the very thing that’s lacking. Brain cancer incidence is rising that’s a fact. The article headline is factualy wrong because there is no evidence brain cancer can’t be caused by telephone use.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6035820/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21327863

If you read the Guardian you will learn very little about what is happening over in Europe compared with the US, China, Australia, New Zealand… , despite the fact it concerns you more. And what you do learn will be anecdotal and/or not very flattering.

So what’s in the Guardian today? Ireland gets an article even though it’s principally about a partner beating Brit and a murdered French woman. The Guardian dresses it up to give the impression the Irish and French legal systems are unfair. One very old news article then in the UK edition, if you click international you’ll also get something about bikes in Ghent.

if you click international you’ll also get something about bikes in Ghent.

Or bikes in Birmingham, referencing the earlier strategy in Ghent.

The article headline is factualy wrong because there is no evidence brain cancer can’t be caused by telephone use.

Does science often look for evidence of things that can’t cause cancer? I rather suspect it’s the other way around.

It’s impossible to prove a negative as a fundamental principle – you can’t prove beyond any doubt that something doesn’t cause harm. In cases like this, science typically works by making a null-hypothesis and testing it. For example, “there will be no statistically significant difference in cancer rates between people living near power lines and those living further away”. This doesn’t prove that power lines are safe, but it is evidence that a theory that they cause cancer is incorrect in some way. If we banned any product that wasn’t proven to be safe, then nothing (i.e. absolutely zero) would ever be approved.

+1 for dannyh’s post.

Rejoin EU.

“there will be no statistically significant difference

And that’s a defence that’s been (mis)used to defend pretty much everything that has ever been ultimately acepted to cause cancer from nuclear testing/emissions to benzine, herbicides, smoking, asbestos and a whole range of occupational diseases because the lack of a perfect statistical correlation doesn’t mean there isn’t a link, it’s just lost in the statistical noise.

I still reckon it’s just a lot of hot air from javid for the jambons , in a year’s time they’ll have forgotten about these promises like they did about the divorce bill

Oh that’s alright then, we can sit back and relax…

Scottish independence is coming – make no mistake about that and the tories are going to carry the can

This. Cameron was petrified of losing Scotland. The history behind the union and the vested establishment interests, not least those of the queen, will be Johnson’s downfall. The break up of the UK is a much bigger deal than brexit, and whoever presides over it will be finished.

The break up of the UK is a much bigger deal than brexit

No chance. Astra-Zeneca has just announced it’s investing 500e million in Dunkirk. You won’t see moves like that from a British/Swedish business due to Scottish independance. Motor manufacturers won’t give up on the UK due to Scottish independance, regulatory bodies won’t quit the UK to Scottish independance. Though you never know, if Scotland rejoins the EU it might benefit from regional aid.

No chance.

It’s not just about money when it comes to Scotland. It’s centuries of history, a shared culture, and almost inseparable links at very level of society. No prime minister would want to be the one who splits up the UK.

It’s not just about money when it comes to Europe. It’s centuries of history, a shared culture, and almost inseparable links at very level of society. No prime minister would want to be the one who splits up the EU.

But BoJo is, so why would he worry about a split with much lower stakes?

No prime minister would want to be the one who splits up the UK.

No Prime Minister would. A First Minister would.

Actually I think there would be a good chance of businesses moving to Scotland if it became a means of being in the EU. After all, JRM’s outfit moved to Ireland.

There is of course one massive plus for the Tories were the union to break apart. Most Tory voters are in England. We could become a de-facto one party state without a coup.

There is also the financial stuff. Banks relocating to Edinburgh to remain in the eu and the lack of the oil money will damage the UK balance of payments and put downward pressure on the pound

The lack of UK media interest in Europe continues. Still nothing on the BBC site about the on-going storm in the Med which has so far killed 3 in Spain and on its way to flooding large areas. If it were in Australia it would be headline news.

https://www.ouest-france.fr/europe/espagne/la-tempete-gloria-fait-trois-morts-en-espagne-6698381

If it were in the US you’d have had three days of people boarding up houses before the storm even landed.

No prime minister would want to be the one who splits up the UK.

What can The Prime Minister do to prevent that if the majority of the Scottish people wanting out? Nothing.
IMO if Scottish people really want to leave UK then there is nothing the govt can do about it.
The people of Scotland are responsible for their own actions if they leave and then they should not complain about unfair competition etc once left.
The only way the Govt can prevent the breakup is to make it easier for people to earn a living and prosper. If the First Minister thinks she can do a better job of making things better for Scotland then go for it. In the meantime she just have to wait for the time to have another referendum.

IMO if Scottish people really want to leave UK then there is nothing the govt can do about it.

Secession from the UK involves negotiation with Westminter. Unless of course they go all Catalan.

I hate to say this and I mean no disrespect but,

Scotland has an over-inflated sense of self-importance with Westminster in the same way that the UK does with the EU / the world stage. We’re puffing out our chests over in Brussels but really, no-one really cares. Similarly with Scotland, their entire population is less that of London, no-one inside of the M25 gives a shit.

I really don’t want to see an independent Scotland (unless it gives me an escape route from this shit-show) but honestly anyone outside of Bow Bells thinking that the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg care about them is living in cloud cuckoo land. I wish them well and if they’re successful, well, I can’t really blame them because they’ve been dealt the shitty end of the stick for years.

I can genuinely see a situation where UK 2.0 is Scotland, Wales and a unified Ireland all aligned with the EU, and England annexed. And whilst it’d break my heart, I cannot hand on heart deny that it’s been a long time coming. The rot set in with our greatest export becoming English football “fans” on cheap Euro holidays out on the piss, now it’s finally boiling over.

I used to say that I’m equally proud to be Northern, English, British, European – none of these things are mutually exclusive. Now out of that lot I’m actually ashamed to be English. How did we come to this? When did racism and vomit supplant bowler hats and cups of tea? It’s a **** tragedy.

no-one inside of the M25 gives a shit

That is what is growing the independence movement. That and the impression that hardly anyone outside the M25 is seeming to give a shit either. I keep encountering other Englishmen repeating the idea that the Scots should just accept that have to do as they are told, revelling in the idea that they are captive rather than partners. Depressing really.

Unless there is a massive change at Westminster, there will not be another indyref for decades.
As for banks relocating HQs to Edinburgh to stay in EU – really?
North Sea oil? Nothing to see here.
I part agree with Cougar ^^^.
Both England and Scotland have over-inflated sense of self-importance.
In reality, two small countries with not a lot to offer to the post-Brexit global economy.
Cultural relevance will reduce thanks to Brexit; it will become more and more like ‘noises off’ at the theatre.
Ireland will be unified well before there is even the slightest possibility of Scottish independence.
As the UK we’ve talked convincingly for years – giving the impression we’re ‘punching above our weight’ economically and politically; now, the emperor’s new clothes are being seen for what they are.
To quote Warren Buffet…it’s only when the tide goes out you see who’s been swimming naked.
You could say I’m disillusioned; I would say realistic.

And that’s a defence that’s been (mis)used to defend pretty much everything that has ever been ultimately acepted to cause cancer from nuclear testing/emissions to benzine, herbicides, smoking, asbestos and a whole range of occupational diseases because the lack of a perfect statistical correlation doesn’t mean there isn’t a link, it’s just lost in the statistical noise.

Says the statistical illiterate. Unless the data is bad, getting lost in the noise means there is no to little link.

Many major scientific discoveries outside of a few old school observational fields like botany have been predicated on the use of statistical analysis.

None of those cited examples were a misuse of statistical theory, they were caused by poor or non existent data or failing to control for confounding factors.

There is plenty of good data floating around for phone use and brain cancer.

Says the statistical illiterate.

Insult will get you nowhere. Good statisticians know the limits of statistics. In any situation where there is background noise, weak but real correlations are masked by the noise and cannot be “proven”. If you are a statistician, Raybanwomble, you chose the wrong career, or you’ve been employed to misuse statistics like so many others before you in cigarette companies, oil companies… .

Having worked with a lot of very tedious statistics I’m all too aware of the limits of what can and can’t be “proven”. Even when from work on the ground things were blindly obvious the stats were inconclusive, frustrating but that’s the way the numbers crunched. The problem is often the number of variables and the imposibility of controlling them or filtering. There are so many possible causes of cancer that pinning a barely statistically significant rise on any one of them simply isn’t possible. However it is equally impossible to prove that ther isn’t a correlation. In the case of mobile phones were looking at quite a short period of data, keep watching this space but don’t dismiss the connection yet.

Just about every government in Europe has issued guidelines/warnings about mobile phone use. Le principe de précaution.

Use your statistical tools wisely.

All models are worng, but some are useful.

This is all pre-trade negotiation “tough” talk and hot air from Javid.

Or it’s the start of a 12 month project to move the public from “being in the EU stops us getting better FTAs” to “who ever said FTAs are important, we can function fine with fewer and worse deals than we had when we where in the EU, this is a great way to get rid of dead wood and make our economy leaner”.

Considering that phone use has exploded in the last 20 years, even a small increase in risk would be evident by now, you’d expect an epidemic of brain cancer, but incidence has stayed the same .

Longer term may be a different story but on the evidence we have now there’s zero robust proof of any link.

And yes javid is all hot air

The focus on Scotland is misplaced, yesterday the NI assembly voted unanimously to reject Johnson’s deal.

There aren’t many things that are able to unite all the parties of NI

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51174448

I was going to post that (wholly unsurprising and criminally ignored) NI Assembly news in the other thread. Or is this the other thread now? Add it to the fact that, in NI, not a single candidate stood at the general election backing Johnson’s deal. Not a single person in NI voted for, or even had the opportunity to vote for, the Brexit that is about to effect them greatly.

who ever said FTAs are important, we can function fine with fewer and worse deals than we had when we where in the EU, this is a great way to get rid of dead wood and make our economy leaner

Where’s that quote from kelvin? Or what are you paraphrasing?

That’s where I’m suggesting we’re heading… ministers, outriders and papers will spend the next 12 months preparing the public for poor trade deals, telling us that Brexit was never about getting better trade deals really, and that they don’t matter, and it’s only poorly run businesses being hit hard by us losing our previous access to international markets. Just a prediction.

It’s not just about money when it comes to Europe.

By any measure the the union with Scotland is much stronger and more important than being in the EU, and pretending otherwise is a bit daft.

Educator mobile phones and cancer? take off the tin foil hat fella. 😆

By any measure the the union with Scotland is much stronger and more important than being in the EU, and pretending otherwise is a bit daft.

That largely depends where you are.

Educator mobile phones and cancer? take off the tin foil hat fella.

tbf in this case a tin foil hat might make a difference

kelvin

That is what is growing the independence movement.

The biggest problem with the independence movement isn’t really Westminster, it’s that it isn’t really growing, or that the growth has been that slow since 2014, that it’s glacial.

Tbh that’s the biggest barrier to independence, and why it’s easy for Johnson to blank us, if the numbers grow however, that becomes more and more difficult.

So, imo, the trouble with Scottish independence isn’t particularly in Westminster, it’s in Scotland.

kimbers

tbf in this case a tin foil hat might make a difference

😆