I probably shouldn’t do this, but I have just read something in the FT that’s so absurd it makes me want to cry.

Sajid Javid tells businesses they can forget staying close to the EU after Brexit

Saying we want to diversify our economic links is one thing (even with strong arguments against the idea); but to set out with the deliberate intent of distancing ourselves from a neighbouring trade block is both reckless and bizarre.

France, our gateway to the EU, is a mere 33.3 kilometres from England, and gives us access to a literal world of goods involving minimal shipping and associated costs. The USA, on the other hand, is 6848 kilometres away, and gives us access to food standards well below what we are accustomed to here in Europe. Australia, meanwhile, with which we have some affinity, is still 15201 kilometres away, and gives us access to… what? Neighbours?

I thought that withdrawal from the EU was, at least in part, about escaping a remote super-state and thinking more locally. Yet our politicians seem dead set on doing the opposite. By way of analogy: it is like our politicians are paying lip service to the need for environmental awareness, while announcing from the driver’s seat of a petrol-guzzling SUV that our new national energy policy will involve the re-opening of coal stations up & down the country.

I know that the Brexit “debate” was lost by those who want to remain in the EU, but we are now facing issues that go well beyond whatever that argument was about. The thing is, the current crop of Tories seem to be using Brexit to roll out new, incidental, policies that are frighteningly retrograde, yet to oppose them is to risk being accused of merely being sour over Brexit itself.

How did you lot get through the Thatcher years? 🙁

There is no paradox. That was obvious to 48% of the people that voted. As for the 52%, draw your own conclusions.

How did you lot get through the Thatcher years?

By being angry and by doing the best I could for my fellows in the way I could

There is no paradox anyway – the whole Idea of Brexit is to make more money and power for the rich and powerful by removing worker and environmental protections

the current crop of Tories seem to be using Brexit to roll out new, incidental, policies that are frighteningly retrograde,

It’s amazing that no-one warned that this would happen, isn’t it.

They see Britain’s future as a tax free playground for the global rich while the rest of the population work in a regulation-free sweatshop economy, devoid of public services, for subsistence-level wages.

They’d hardly kept it a secret

BORING!! .. please keep the Brexit whinging to the Loony-thread

@mooman

Gullible or stupid, gullible and stupid, or a hedge fund manager?

Pick one.

There is no paradox. As a waivering leaver at the start of the referendum campaign, this “news” became increasingly obvious as the campaign went on and I became a fervent remainer.

How did you lot get through the Thatcher years?

In grinding poverty, just like almost everyone else in our town.

Oh, and you can try to shut people down as much as you like. You can call it ‘boring’ or whatever you want, but what it really means is ‘please stop pointing out my stupidity’.

Not a **** chance. Over the next decade as business after business either leaves or collapses, town after town become metal-shuttered shells and things get totally shit for no discernible sensible reason, the grownups will be here, there and everywhere pointing out your fail.

You might as well get used to it. It isn’t going to stop.

How did you lot get through the Thatcher years?

Mostly by wondering whether we’d all die of AIDS before Ronald Reagan hit the big red button.

@mooman: That’s one of my main points. Post-Brexit policies need to be scrutinised separately from Brexit. Remainers lost. That’s done. But that doesn’t mean that we have given permission to everything the government might try to do next.

… and with my Stompy Boots De Moderateur on for a moment: if this discussion turns into yet another retread of the big thread, it will be closed.

Mostly by wondering whether we’d all die of AIDS before Ronald Reagan hit the big red button.

We wondered the same thing in Canada. But you definitely had things worse here in the UK in political terms.

… and with my Stompy Boots De Moderateur on for a moment: if this discussion turns into yet another retread of the big thread, it will be closed.

Fair. I am hoping it won’t. What I want is to debate/discuss post-Brexit policies.

I don’t know what you lot are fussing about, in 10 years time we’ll be cosying up to the Greater Chinese Empire and be their unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Atlantic.

Remainers lost. That’s done. But that doesn’t mean that we have given permission to everything the government might try to do next.

I find it [laughable | infuriating] that after spending all the time since the referendum telling us to shut up and that our opinions were worthless, now that project fear is slowly turning into project fact they’re all moaning that it’s our fault for not helping them.

Australia, meanwhile, with which we have some affinity, is still 15201 kilometres away, and gives us access to… what? Neighbours?

And coal. They have lots of coal.

Don’t forget the new trade deal the UK signed last year with Fiji…..!

That power house of the Pacific crying out for British goods and the masses of coconuts they have ready to ship. They should be here within the next four months, just in time to avert the food riots.

And then there is the trade deal with Papua New Guinea….

Harking back to the days of empire.

and be their unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Atlantic.

…right up until global warming floods all the flat bits.

That power house of the Pacific crying out for British goods and the masses of coconuts they have ready to ship.

Sugar is their main export crop. What are British kiddies going to eat for breakfast if there’s no access to sugar?

The brexit fight is over.
Focus now must be on securing the possible deals on everything that follows – both EU and global.
For that to happen we need an effective parliamentary opposition – an earlier post of mine over there >>> refers.
The size of the tory majority will make this difficult but comments such as those by Javid must be called-out, challenged forcefully, quantified as far as possible – this is what it means to you, the ‘average voter’ and publicised as widely as possible.
This must be supported by proposing credible alternatives.
I doubt the current labour leadership has the ability or inclination to do this effectively and new leadership won’t be in place until early April.
I have no doubt leavers will argue that whatever happens will be a ‘price worth paying’; far easier to say that than admit to unforeseen consequences or concede they may have been wrong.
Paradox? No. The size of the tory majority has empowered them such that they can, and will, do whatever they want; they see themselves as unaccountable and this will continue unless/until labour get their act together. Any past promises or commitments are irrelevancies.

The size of the tory majority will make this difficult but comments such as those by Javid must be called-out, challenged forcefully, quantified as far as possible – this is what it means to you, the ‘average voter’ and publicised as widely as possible.
This must be supported by proposing credible alternatives.
I doubt the current labour leadership has the ability or inclination to do this effectively and new leadership won’t be in place until early April.

Doesn’t matter who the leader is, the people clearly are not listening and are certainly not able to work it our for themselves.

Seems like a good plan to me.

Exports will crash, Sterling will go with it, and the NHS will be that much cheaper to buy.

comments such as those by Javid must be called-out, challenged forcefully, quantified as far as possible

TBH, this should have been happening before the referendum took place. As it’s still not happening I can’t see it changing anytime soon.

“Project fear” is the most powerful weapon Leave ever came up with. It gave everyone a method of rubbishing and dismissing out of hand anything they didn’t want to hear without requiring a shred of qualification, and it’s still working today.

Remember the press barons set the news agenda and they all want brexit, The tories are getting called out and did before the election. It was not published

If the Govt got the balls to cut the Business Rate for SME to 10% or 20% they got a winning formula. Come what may the SME will able to cope and to compete. Without SME there is no large enterprise.

Yet our politicians seem dead set on doing the opposite

They only tell people what they want to hear. So people want to imagine us being free from EU shackles, that’s what they will try and do. They really have no idea about what they are doing, they aren’t experts and they don’t listen to experts. It is literally a popularity contest, nothing more. None of them have any competence.

If you want something a bit positive, have a look at the agriculture bill that was proposed – linking farmer subsidies to environmentally positive practices: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/16/food-security-brexit-biggest-shake-uk-farming-40-years-agriculture-bill

Of course I’ll reserve final judgement until it happens, but it’s at least a positive move.

The dead duck of Brexit and a government run by the absolute dregs of the Tory Party, what a miserable start to the new decade. Things will get worse before they get better.

If the govt does not reduce the Business Rate drastically then they have no clue in the way to make the business competitive. Yes, you might argue there many other factors to consider but if they are sincere then cutting business rate is the first step to competitiveness.

The difficulty for business yet again is the unknown, divergence might be good might be bad but until we actually know what it means it’s a bit tricky to be prepared for it 😕

If the govt does not reduce the Business Rate drastically then they have no clue in the way to make the business competitive. Yes, you might argue there many other factors to consider but if they are sincere then cutting business rate is the first step to competitiveness.

Who picks up the shortfall?

Who picks up the shortfall?

The councils. i.e. reduce the bureaucrats.

I was mistaken. There is a paradox here. Some Leavers now seem to want help of some kind of help (undefined, naturally) to limit the damage their fail will cause.

Through the looking glass we go again.

The councils. i.e. reduce the bureaucrats.

The councils that have had funding cut by double digit percentages? Those councils? Or the 1980s sitcom version you have in your head?

I was mistaken. There is a paradox here. Some Leavers now seem to want help of some kind of help (undefined, naturally) to limit the damage their fail will cause.

The business rate is stupid to say the least especially for SME. There are already various forms of stealth taxes. The justification for business rate usually come from bureaucrats that are parasitic.

The councils that have had funding cut by double digit percentages? Those councils? Or the 1980s sitcom version you have in your head?

Not enough. You don’t need to feed thousands of bureaucrats.

but until we actually know what it means it’s a bit tricky to be prepared for it

No, because in this Kafka-esque farce you must be prepared for all eventualities simultaneously. You only have yourself to blame if you fail to prepare for the entire panoply of shit things that might happen as a result of a self inflicted wound.

Power to the morons!

but until we actually know what it means it’s a bit tricky to be prepared for it

No, because in this Kafka-esque farce you must be prepared for all eventualities simultaneously. You only have yourself to blame if you fail to prepare for the entire panoply of shit things that might happen as a result of a self inflicted wound.

Power to the morons!

Prepared for all eventualities? Is there such thing?
Aren’t that supposed to be paralysis in planning? 😃