That Maxxis "babes calendar" article…

cougar, I’ve explained enough times why what is being asked for is effectively a ban.

You have. And do I understand your point. I just believe it’s erroneous. If you can’t see that we’re just going to go round in circles so there’s little point in me continuing here.

Apparently you dont know what a strawman is either.

Don’t be ludicrous.

I suggest you go through that very clever list point by point.

Irrespective of anything else, would you not agree that if it is possible for you to have fallen into that particular trap as you would be unaware of it by your own logic.

As for whether or not people have said what I claimed, then yes, they have, albeit not in ‘exactly’ the same words. They might have taught you logic but they didn’t teach you to think.

and I quote

honestly you are embarrassing yourself now and are so ignorant you dont even realise how daft this is making you look

Seriously, some sort of consensus was breaking out only a short while ago and now we’re reduced to mud slinging again.

cougar – Were not going to change each others minds on the ‘ban’ issue. I’m pleased at least someone understands basic use of the english language!

To call using the word ban a strawman argument is absolutely ridiculous, though I assume that isn’t what you were referring to.

Irrespective of anything else, would you not agree that if it is possible for you to have fallen into that particular trap as you would be unaware of it by your own logic.

How can I be ignorant of a thing i am explaining to you and I have taught at University?

As for whether or not people have said what I claimed, then yes, they have, albeit not in ‘exactly’ the same words.

😆
So they have said ban without saying ban…is that meant to be convincing

Were not going to change each others minds on the ‘ban’ issue. I’m pleased at least someone understands basic use of the english language!

Including the bit where he said your claim was erroneous ?

As polite as I can be here you are either very challenged of thinking or trolling the shit out of the forum either way
Good luck getting through to him and mleh

Are you now suggesting JY is lying? Because you’re surely not so daft as to think that those people employing others to teach at a university are incapable of judging the competence of those they’re employing.

As for whether or not people have said what I claimed, then yes, they have, albeit not in ‘exactly’ the same words.

Priceless. I’m assuming that’s in the sense that people are calling for such things to be banned, albeit not in ‘exactly’ those words?

Apparently Madonna and Beyoncé are in the top 25 feminists according to Harper’s bazaar. Now Beyoncé dares to bare while walking round in big knickers and modonna did a coffee table book Called sex of her in the noddy.

So to be a feminist you have to believe in equality but objectification appears to be optional.

http://www.swide.com/celebrities/this-is-why-madonna-is-one-of-the-greatest-feminist-ever/2015/03/08

Just think if STW could monetise the quote tag….$$$

You – taught – logic?

Did anyone pass?

How can I be ignorant of a thing i am explaining to you and I have taught at University?

Seriously? If it was the case, you would understand the concept but:

1. fail to recognize their own lack of skill
2. fail to recognize genuine skill in others
3. fail to recognize the extent of their inadequacy

in this instance.

You can have that for class.

Well hopefully some were more receptive to logical argument than you.

Can you clarify whether you think JY is lying, or those employing him were incompetent?

This simple concept seems to have eluded many of the anti-calendarists, some of whom have shown themselves to be the most sexist on the thread.

aracer – Member

Can you clarify whether you think JY is lying, or those employing him were incompetent?

aracer, you know that link about strawmen? Now would be a good time to read it. 😆

edit to get the quote count up – got to fund singletrack!

Woo, would you like to explain why that is a strawman?

You do keep claiming that other people don’t know what a strawman is, and then suggesting other people’s comments are strawmen when they aren’t.

It’s a free ride when you’ve already paid.

Right

The so-called typical “attacking a straw man” argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent’s proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., “stand up a straw man”) and then to refute or defeat that false argument (“knock down a straw man”) instead of the original proposition.[2][3]

The straw man in this instance would be junkyards employers for employing someone who doesn’t understand what a strawman is to teach them.

I suspect they didn’t but then they are probably made of straw.

If nowt else it’ll give you something to clutch at.

Oh I give up. I’m going for a pint, have fun and play nicely.

Ill take that as an acknowledgement that I’m at least correct about that.

Thank you cougar. Enjoy your pint.

the last few pages of this thread are hilarious! thanks for the laughs – particularly the insane argument about censorship and straw men…lol

I personally would rather maxxis hadn’t made the calendar, for similar reasons as Adele….but think they should definitely be allowed to do it if they choose.

Cheng Shin (maxxis)- they are a public company so I expect they will probably end up doing what makes the most short term financial sense to cater to shareholder interets. in the motocross world generally its my understanding that advertising with ‘babes’ is still massively successful – that’s kinda the culture there – check out what other companies in that market do for promo etc. So if that’s their biggest market (I’m not 100% sure it is though – they started in bike tires and now listed as an automotive company) then they’ll go for marketing campaigns that work there. The babes thing looks like its much more than just a calendar shoot – it looks to be an ongoing feature in their branding. I expect that the market for feminist (male or female) mountain bikers is a fairly small one comparitively so its unlikely they would cater to that with their markerting at the moment by cutting out stuff that works in other markets.

So anyway I only say that to try and explain why I will still be buying maxxis tires and why I would encourage others to do the same ….despite disliking their marketing:

I don’t expect a boycott will stop them marketing to mx with ‘babes’. I think that a boycott from the people who care about this will only effect their high end MTB tires. I would prefer them to keep making those (and developing new ones).
I would also prefer them to keep marketing to MTB events at grass roots level by providing sponsorship / race prizes etc…cos I like going to races and think there are a lot of positives for MTB created by that kind of support.

So er basically keep complaining but also carry on buying the tires?

How are JY’s employers a strawman?

Sorry I’m struggling to follow your supposed logic here.

You suspect:
1) they don’t exist
2) they never employed JY
3) they employed JY despite him not understanding what a strawman is
4) something else

which one is it?

He was right, but not in the way you think, definitely clutching.

The straw man in this instance would be junkyards employers for employing someone who doesn’t understand what a strawman is to teach them.

its definetly not the bit where you use ban when no one else did

FWIW your example would not be a straw man

as for the list you are still failing to recognise your own straw man argument and now claiming that other arguments are straw men when they are not obviously this is still insufficient information for the penny to drop

Ill take that as an acknowledgement that I’m at least correct about that.

Yes saying you are clutching at [straws] is well recognised as an acknowledgment that the person agrees with you
Got to be trolling.

I’m struggling with Poe’s law

So, a few pictures of tits can be so penicious as to make a large number of men sexist

NO

1) It’s not specifically the pictures that are turning decent men into sexists.

2) It’s not JUST a few pictures. It’s centuries of of it.

You’re wilfully ignoring my points.

Addendum:

<mod>
Easy on the Ad Hom please guys.
</mod>

BTW my Morissette lyrics seem to have been recognised as expected, but I’m disappointed nobody recognised the Jam lyric I threw in on page 25 (or if they did nobody acknowledged it) 🙁

Considering its a calendar they you have to buy then its a matter of choice, there are plenty of calendars of men semi naked for some on here and there are other calendars with kittens, and whatever you want to look at, I still have my Kylie calendar.
As maxxis is making tyres for all types of motor sport where women are often walking round the pits in tight kit, and on podiums then its up the the manufacturer to target their market.
its choice if you dont like it dont buy it.
But dont claim you are advertising a product if you bought it.

its choice if you dont like it dont buy it.

Did it get sent around as promotional material? Is it going to be displayed in public? If so, it’s not the same as private viewing.

NO

1) It’s not specifically the pictures that are turning decent men into sexists.

2) It’s not JUST a few pictures. It’s centuries of of it.

lets not forget about the centuries of painting and sculptures of nude people before photographs. That statue of David is just shocking and objectifying men

Which is perfectly acceptable?

Well it’s not at all is it? Which is the point. I thought we’d already done the difference between nudity and objectification? NOBODY (here) is suggesting there is anything at all wrong with nudity in art.

Sancho » As maxxis is making tyres for all types of motor sport where women are often walking round the pits in tight kit

Which is perfectly acceptable?

Totally

Well it’s not at all is it? Which is the point. I thought we’d already done the difference between nudity and objectification?

so you can look at naked people/people in sexy poses and not objectify them

BTW my Morissette lyrics seem to have been recognised as expected, but I’m disappointed nobody recognised the Jam lyric I threw in on page 25 (or if they did nobody acknowledged it)

I did and it’s been stuck in my head since. Thanks. 😡

Not going to post any more about the calender in this thread, it’s like bashing one’s head against the wall and it looks like Dan is just trolling at this point. Hope my comments made some people think a little bit, for a couple of seconds.

yes perfectly acceptable aracer and it might be promotional in workshops then if you dont like it in a workshop take it up with the workshop manager.
also lets not forget that we are but one country and our values are often at odds with other parts of the world.
So a global brand may upset a few in the uk, but please the majority of their market

Wow, so David is a sexy pose? well you’ve certainly made me re-evaluate both that statue and what I consider sexy.

Totally
[/quote]

So why no blokes wandering round the pits, why the tight lycra? Is there no objectification going on there?

molgrips. Not intentional if i did.

One argument seems to be that having pictures of semi clad women in the world propagates sexist attitudes by their mere existence. The flip side is that allowing a vocal objection to affect what can and cannot be published and effect self censorship somehow isn’t of concern. They seem very similar arguments in structure to me.

Perhaps i’m not explaining it very well.

Do you see what I mean though or not?

And yes, its not just a few pictures but its far less than in the past. As for this calendar, so far as I’m concerned the context is fine. If it was ads in singletrack or other magazines then that would be very different. Its not. Its a specific calendar to raise money for charity and is no different to any number of others.

aracer, i dont think you understand motorsport

its about men racing
yes women race too and are very good at it, but its fan base is predominantly male.
men who like to look at women.
hence no men in lycra in the pits.

comt to a mx race, or enduro, or track days, or rally, rallycross, etc etc
you will see the target market for the calendar

So why no blokes wandering round the pits, why the tight lycra? Is there no objectification going on there?

but you just said that you can look without objectifying.

Did it get sent around as promotional material? Is it going to be displayed in public? If so, it’s not the same as private viewing.
Posted

Sent out – No. There was a link to a site which said you might want to buy the calendar as part of a charity fundraising effort which had no wimmin on show – though there were a couple of silhouettes.

Displayed in public? – I doubt it and only if an individual set it up in a public area. So if they did, its not maxxis’ doing and there is plenty of other opportunity to do the same.

So it is private viewing, so far as Maxxis is concerned anyway.

aracer, i dont think you understand motorsport

don’t think aracer undertands much TBH

999

1000!