Term Time Holidays – The Arguments Can Continue.

Thanks AA actually as you’re a teacher it means something as it has when my kids’ teachers express their sympathy and frustration over the system.

As I said earlier as a manager I try to accommodate staff if I can but it’s just not always possible. I do run the rotation thing or did as it’s changed, to allow staff to get a chance. The issue still results in whether it fits with it my case my wife as it does with other a staff and their partners. So you end betting 2 employers trying to be accommodating instead of one school.

I’ve had the a holiday the last 4 years with my kids but the wife has had to work so stayed at home. My kids broke up today I’m on 2 weeks off well I am until 7 tonight when I’m back at work. My wife is off the second week of the holidays and I’m working. 😆

yeah, i bet most kids would love that. ‘sorry kids, no snow time for you, we’re going to a cottage with granddad, maybe fit in some hill walking’

Sounds far nicer than freezing your bits off and potentially breaking some bones up a mountain.

It’s also missing the point – why should you pander to what the kids want, unless you want to raise a bunch of spoilt brats. But then those self-same spoilt brats won’t give a toss about the rules when they’re parents, and so the cycle continues.

I think a lot of people on this thread aren’t thinking it through.
Yes, I agree (and I’m a teacher) that taking your 7 or 8 year old out for a couple of days at the end of term will have minimal impact on their education. But if it becomes the norm, and you/they expect it, then you’ll be taking them out for cheap holidays all the way through.

Now, I teach a couple of lads whose families have a tradition of taking 2 weeks off in November to go to Majorca, have done every year apparently.
Years 10 & 11 were no different. Due to this they both missed GCSE mock exams, and I was told in no uncertain terms by their parents that ‘No, they won’t be doing any work on holiday, as they need to be able to relax as they’ll be doing exams soon.’ The irony appeared to be lost in them.

Both came back to school and spent the last 2 weeks of the Autumn term not in any way wanting to engage in lessons (same across all subjects too) as I suspect they’d both been getting royally pissed for the previous 2 weeks, and coming back to a load of teachers wanting them to catch up was way down on their list of priorities.

Then they went on 2 weeks Xmas hols, and to be honest neither has really bothered to pull their fingers out since.

The fault of the term-time holiday? Probably not.
The fault of their parents not really caring about their education, and making it clear that saving a bit of money and having short term enjoyment is more important than long term success? **** yes.

yeah, i bet most kids would love that. ‘sorry kids, no snow time for you, we’re going to a cottage with granddad, maybe fit in some hill walking’

My 2 love that.

They’ve never been skiing but would love it sadly we can’t afford it outside of term time either.

AA: yep totally agree on the GCSE thing. That’s pretty idiotic and presumably the kind of behaviour a blanket ban aims to stop (not that any headteacher’ would have approved that one anyway).

Drac: joys of the NHS eh? Mrs (Dr) is working over Easter too, including the bank holidays, so I end up using up all my holidays to care for the kids. So by the time we get the chance to have a holiday together I have to take it as unpaid parental leave which only adds to the cost of going away.

Sounds far nicer than freezing your bits off and potentially breaking some bones up a mountain.

I’m guessing you don’t have a lot of experience of Spring skiing in France? Sunburn is usually far more of an issue than bits freezing off. 😀

I’m guessing you don’t have a lot of experience of Spring skiing in France? Sunburn is usually far more of an issue than bits freezing off.

More than you’d think actually, as my parents live in the Pyrennees. However, I’m not a fan of skiing. IMO an overpriced waste of time. Much rather be cycling!

February isn’t spring

Mash again:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/families-taking-term-time-holidays-face-not-being-able-to-show-off-about-it-20170406125619

😆

I really hope all those who are so keen on others not breaking rules don’t ride their mountain bikes on footpaths…

I really hope all those who are so keen on others not breaking rules don’t ride their mountain bikes on footpaths…

Riding on a footpath is a civil matter, whereas taking kids out of school in term-time is a criminal matter. Do keep up!

I lost this on page 3 .. but I did read .. “what happens if the pregnancy is unplanned?” well you still CHOOSE to have the child!! And the come back will be not if I’m the bloke .. well you should have used a flipping condom!!!

yeah, i bet most kids would love that. ‘sorry kids, no snow time for you, we’re going to a cottage with granddad, maybe fit in some hill walking’

My kids absolutely love spending time with their grandparents.

Ironically the reason there were five people on my skiing holiday was that the fifth person as their grandma, who doesn’t ski but they love spending time with 😀

I suspect what was meant by Munge-chick’s comment was to those who were suggesting that if an pregnancy was unplanned then that was an excuse to do whatever you like.

The fact remains however that in the UK there are several choices available in the event of an unplanned pregnancy. Whether you personally would want to take them up on is besides the point and wishing someone gets aids is bang out of order.

I’ve encountered that attitude from childless couples before they’re doing the world a favour by their sacrifice, in that case don’t expect in future, the children of others to become care workers in adulthood to deal with their senile infirmity. Don’t expect them kids to pay tax in to a pension pot.

I’ve encountered that attitude from childless couples before they’re doing the world a favour by their sacrifice, in that case don’t expect in future, the children of others to become care workers in adulthood to deal with their senile infirmity. Don’t expect them kids to pay tax in to a pension pot.

And equally I’ve encountered the entitled attitudes from some parents who think that that should be an excuse to allow them to do whatever they want. Never once have I wished they got aids.

Did they suggest you kill your unborn child?

I lost this on page 3 .. but I did read .. “what happens if the pregnancy is unplanned?”

Should’ve read on a few more posts!

That’s bang out of order. Let me clear something up for you regarding the abortion debate:

The question isn’t whether or not it’s ok to kill kids, it’s whether or not a 10 week old foetus is actually a kid.

Mol that discussion was on the table at the time, we were middle aged with 2 kids coming to school leaving age, true and welly in the Precariat demographic – we got as far as an almost hospital visit. Got in the car park and turned right around. We decided we’d rather be in shite Street and whatever the future threw our way we’d face that as and when.
Someone who got through 2 levels of tube snipping really fought to be here in our humble opinions, and every single day I’m glad she is…

Nothing wrong with that opinion.

The question isn’t whether or not it’s ok to kill kids, it’s whether or not a 10 week old foetus is actually a kid.

It’s not actually, it is up to 24 weeks.

you can’t have rules that only apply to one type of person I’m afraid.

Why-ever not ???

90% of the time my kid spends in school is not doing him any good educationally. 80% of it is spent unlearning what they previously taught because they have to teach in bits.

The whole of school is simply a way to stretch out a few months into 10+ years … mostly based simply on the idea everyone needs to be taught the same and they have to fill the time somehow.

The whole point of this is at least 50% of the class would benefit by not repeating the same stuff until they are so bored they switch off and would be far better anywhere BUT school for a significant part of the time.

A simple example is the change in how guidelines for maths at KS2 changed into mandatory… it now MUST take 2 years for kids to learn times tables… schools are not allowed to teach any faster.

This means they instead need to teach a whole load of maths without the kids having learned their times tables so they get taught 4×6 = 4×3 + 4×3.

Next year they are taught the 6x table and have to be told that 4×6 = 4×6 except they have already been taught a workaround…

and the whole point of this ??? 99% of kids can learn times tables 1-10 in a day or so… my kid just learned them one weekend the old fashioned way…

then (last year) his teacher was marking 4×6 = 24 as incorrect…. and instead he had to write 4×3 + 4×3
this year he’s ALLOWED to know the 6x table and what he was told last year is incorrect…

I won’t even go into his reading where he reads proper books (Pratchett or Dahl and Tom Sawyer) at home but was reading “Jack goes to the park” at school….

School spend FAR FAR LONGER preventing kids learning than actually teaching.

The whole announcement that any time away from school adversely affects their GCSE results is obviously not even a misguided statement but a out and out lie.

And as far as out of order, don’t suggest, or make allusion to suggest that I should arrange an abortion just because an uncalculable percentage of your tax may be used in the rearing of that child.

It’s not actually, it is up to 24 weeks.

I know. But you may consider it at any age UP TO 24 weeks.

And as far as out of order, don’t suggest, or make allusion to suggest that I should arrange an abortion just because an uncalculable percentage of your tax may be used in the rearing of that child.

Did I do that? Where?

The whole of school is simply a way to stretch out a few months into 10+ years

A few months? Don’t talk shite.

The whole of school is simply a way to stretch out a few months into 10+ years

A few months? Don’t talk shite.[/quote]

This.

A simple example is the change in how guidelines for maths at KS2 changed into mandatory… it now MUST take 2 years for kids to learn times tables… schools are not allowed to teach any faster.

This is just a problem with your understanding of the teaching.

Teaching 4×3 + 4×3 is getting all sorts of concepts in early. BODMAS, breakapart method etc.

The question isn’t “what is 4×6” it’s “how can I give this child the tools to multiply 4×116 in their head by the end of KS2”.

Mol, you didn’t. Someone else may have, hence my caveat in that first rant “if”

Jimdoubleyou, I’d much prefer your example than rote learning times tables, as you say it teaches how to problem solve

And as far as out of order, don’t suggest, or make allusion to suggest that I should arrange an abortion just because an uncalculable percentage of your tax may be used in the rearing of that child.

No one did. All that was pointed out is as that when it comes to pregnancy, even an unplanned one, there are choices so that isn’t a reason for anyone that expect special treatment. It was available to you and your wife and you made a choice that was right for you. Others make different decisions and live with those consequences.

Quite unprovoked from what I can see, you wished someone would get aids.

I’d much prefer your example than rote learning times tables

I don’t like rote learning obviously (nor does anyone else who works in education I suspect) but even I appreciate that some is required. Times tables at least up to 10 are something you just have to know.

My daughter’s learning them and she is also learning things like factors and how sums work at the same time.

True but I agree that it is also very helpful to know why 4×6 is 24.

Of course. But it’s far easier to do general arithmec if you simply know it rather than have to back to first principles every time. Especially when you’re 7.

Quite unprovoked from what I can see, you wished someone would get aids.

Someone pointed out that people faced with an unplanned pregnancy have a choice.

He said he hopes that person gets AIDS.

Then went on to describe how he and his wife made an appointment but made the choice not to go through with it.
Illustrating perfectly the point that people have a choice.

Quite strange.

90% of the time my kid spends in school is not doing him any good educationally.

The whole of school is simply a way to stretch out a few months into 10+ years

School spend FAR FAR LONGER preventing kids learning than actually teaching.

You know what, if you can do it so much better, then home school him. You could also take your holidays whenever you like. Come back in 10 years and tell us how it went.

The whole announcement that any time away from school adversely affects their GCSE results is obviously not even a misguided statement but a out and out lie.

Of course ‘any’ time away from school won’t affect GCSE results. But for most of the kids who’s parents DGAS about education and take them off on holidays in term time and allow other absences, then it’s generally not just a couple of days, but weeks per year.

90% attendance – which the father in the original story said was acceptable – means 4 weeks of school lost in a year. For many kids that WILL have an adverse effect on their GCSEs.

Example: One of my kid’s friends got taken to Disneyland on Ice or some such by her mother, during the week. They didn’t get back home til ten or something, so her mother phoned her in sick the following day.

Example: One of my kid’s friends got taken to Disneyland on Ice or some such by her mother, during the week. They didn’t get back home til ten or something, so her mother phoned her in sick the following day.

My mum did the same for me when I went to see The Housemartins at Brid Spa in 1986.

This is just a problem with your understanding of the teaching.

Teaching 4×3 + 4×3 is getting all sorts of concepts in early. BODMAS, breakapart method etc.

The question isn’t “what is 4×6” it’s “how can I give this child the tools to multiply 4×116 in their head by the end of KS2”.

Nope it’s a problem of teaching staff not understanding maths (as they were taught to a very poor level by someone whom themselves doesn’t understand) with a curriculum set by so called experts whom themselves don’t understand maths.

There is just no excuse NOT to teach the kids times tables over a very short period.

Teaching 4×3 + 4×3 is getting all sorts of concepts in early. BODMAS, breakapart method etc.

My 7 yr old can calculate gear ratio’s, the circumference of a wheel and the length of a spoke. (This is somewhat co-incidental to the fact this is a cycling forum – because the reason he can do it is because he wanted to learn how to build a bike)

He’s equally capable of calculating the height of a ladder and he mostly checked himself using some string …

He has increasingly hated the repetition at school .. and in most maths he is far advanced over his mother (who is a teacher)

The difference is HE UNDERSTANDS the maths, his mother doesn’t she learns it and teaches it but doesn’t actually UNDERSTAND IT. She has QTS but shouldn’t really be allowed near a child learning maths, except she knows as much as her peers!

I don’t like rote learning obviously (nor does anyone else who works in education I suspect) but even I appreciate that some is required. Times tables at least up to 10 are something you just have to know.

This current trend for not liking learning by rote is a bit pointless.
This is one reason that months get stretched to years ..

It’s the time wasted learning and especially unlearning to get around not just teaching it straight off even if heavens forbid that means by rote.

Learning by rote doesn’t need to be horrible… I forget the incentive I gave to my kid but he just learned the rhymes then played a game where he applied them.

The point is it saves all that FRUSTRATING TIME
To illustrate I was with a colleague in Kiev a couple of weeks ago… and he couldn’t read anything despite him speaking several slavic languages but being able to guess what a noun was 80% once I transliterated for him.

So he spent an evening in his hotel room learning cyrillic.
Then he could read and he could then learn new words simply by reading.

He could have spent months picking up the odd spoken word but the next day I hardly had to translate anything because he could read slowly and then find a related slavic word.

Once he had the tools he could work stuff out for himself.

Times tables are one of those tools… just get them done ASAP (or delay them but don’t go teaching other ways they will then be told to abandon later)

If the education system really wanted it could teach the entire curriculum in a few months but instead it drags the whole thing out over years.

I took GCE’s (before even GCSE’s) in subjects I’d not even taken with a few weeks reading and others with almost no background.
(As an example at school I attended a British Social History CSE for a specific time period… decided I didn’t want to take CSE’s and entered myself for European Political History for an entirely different time period.

I did next to nothing except read a few text books, learn some key facts and got an A. I didn’t take any form of biology at school , read a few text books and got an A….

I actually just skipped school for the last 3-4 months … I can say had I attended by GCE results would have been MUCH worse.

A few months? Don’t talk shite.

I got all A’s at GCE and spent zero time in school in a GCE stream…all I did was a few months reading…

What exactly was the benefit of the preceeding 10.5 years?
I got taught one thing … then the year later I got taught that was wrong…

My first day at school I was taught (from a 5yr olds perspective) that my parents had lied to me and ITA was the way things were written and “Butcher” written outside a shop was not for ME to read…

I then spent the next 10+ years somewhere I would not want to be being taught mainly more lies.

In Yr 2 my kid was lied to and told the 6x table DOESN’T EXIST….that he is not ALLOWED to know it.

Teachers unfortunately seem to think they are actually teaching. I suppose they need to justify to themselves they are actually doing something GOOD not as they are HARMING millions of children and holding them back.

This is especially at primary age … the problem is that by the end of primary the damage has been done and the kids held back so much they will never achieve their potential.

They will come up with endless excuses to hold kids back as they don’t have either the knowledge or the material to teach.

So taking 2 weeks on holiday, actually enriching your life?
The TEACHER doesn’t need to do ANYTHING but they believe they do because they believe they are actually teaching.

Sadly they are deluding themselves because most of the time they are holding back…
2 weeks NOT being held back has to be better than 2 weeks in school.

TL;DR; : stevextc’s son is a child prodigy, the talented offspring of a genius and an idiot, who is not catered for correctly by schools.

I got all A’s at GCE and spent zero time in school in a GCE stream…all I did was a few months reading…

And yet you STILL cannot understand the difference between anecdote and data!

Have you any experience of kids other than your own genius boy?

And yet you STILL cannot understand the difference between anecdote and data!

I can which is why I take issue with the statement that any time off school will be detrimental to GCSE results….

Have you any experience of kids other than your own genius boy?

You mean other than his friends and relatives?

On what data are you suggesting my kid is a genius ?

He just did some rather basic maths that 99% of 7yr olds could do if teachers hadn’t already held them back.

Learning 10x times tables in a weekend is not indicative of anything except having an IQ higher than someone who unfortunately will never learn to tie their own laces!

Generations of children learned times tables at 5 (now called “Reception” as opposed to year 1 which is now year 2)… it is simply that the present system hold them back that there is any expectation of why it would be ages 7-8 not 5!

In the same way there is NOTHING complicated about gear ratio’s or multiplying a wheel diameter by a number (or multiplying by 22 and dividing by 7) and all this can be then tested using a bit of string and tape measure.

It all comes down to expectations and the bar has been lowered year on year for decades.