Term Time Holidays – The Arguments Can Continue.

Asking the rhetorical questions?

Rhetorical is the wrong word.

The kids in are selected not by the material they need/want to cover or by ability but by where when they were going on holiday.

FTFY
And of course, all kids learn at the same pace in the same class 🙄

Is it really so difficult to consider alternatives to the current system?

Because they are selling the tickets off at a loss (carefully balanced to get the planes as full as possible for the highest price they can get away with – but still at a loss) so they can get folk over to the location to spend their money in the bars/on trips etc.

Im still comfused by this apparent exemplar of business logic. So the high prices of non Term time sold at a loss balance the low prices ans empty planes of term time how?

Its been a long day, either im missing something or i womt be investimg im Footlaps Corp.

So no one who works in any of those can take time off in school holidays?

Pretty common to have restrictions on holidays in those professions, yes.

And indeed any profession that requires a certain level of staff cover and/or is at its busiest during the holidays.

Is it really so difficult to consider alternatives to the current system?

No. Alternative thinking is good and should be cherished. But that doesn’t mean you get to slide the dross thinking and get to call it ‘blue sky’.

#donthavekidshaveholidaysinstead.

Pretty common to have restrictions on holidays in those professions, yes.

And indeed any profession that requires a certain level of staff cover and/or is at its busiest during the holidays.

But no blanket bans on taking time off during school holidays?

But no blanket bans on taking time off during school holidays?

Restrictions not banned.

Seems like a storm in a teacup to have kicked off over holidays corresponding to the laws of economics…

As someone without kids, I await flaming by saying: fleece the breeders.

No. Alternative thinking is good and should be cherished. But that doesn’t mean you get to slide the dross thinking and get to call it ‘blue sky’.

It may be dross and ‘blue sky’ (whatever that means) in your opinion, but it is an alternative. All too often, it’s the apparently immovable or untouchable elements that need the focus to make changes that benefit the majority.

I don’t believe the whole it’s quiet when the kids aren’t off rubbish. These huge companies don’t rely on the extra income just from the school holidays, they merely make more money on these periods because they know they can, it’s just a case of if you want to go then you’ve gotta pay what they say.
My stand is if I want to take MY children out of school I will do so, however as I’m not a knob I write a nice letter asking permission, speak to the right people and discuss it like adults. This coming Easter my children will require one day off as we go Monday to Monday, that will be the only day they have off this school year barring illness, so far it’s 100 perecnt attendance for them both.

On a final point, some of the schools revently have moved the holiday start days compared to others, all this has done is inflated the prices for 3 weeks over Easter rather than the original 2, therefore pointing back at profiteering by the holiday companies.

as I’m not a knob

We only have your word for that. 😉

All too often, it’s the apparently immovable or untouchable elements that need the focus to make changes that benefit the majority.

Such as allowing kids to have holidays with their family in term time.

Excellent – so no one with kids can work in the NHS, fire service, police, military, hospitality, etc etc etc?

Restrictions not banned.

Thank you

You might also want to expand you dictionary.com search to ‘rhetorical question‘ rather than restrict it to ‘rhetorical’.

Such as allowing kids to have holidays with their family in term time.

You mean like having times when kids don’t need to be there all the same time as the teachers?

Still the wrong word.

So the high prices of non Term time sold at a loss balance the low prices ans empty planes of term time how?

Not sure quite what you meant to type there. But no, I would no be investing in the tourism industry – it’s not a big money earner.

In essence….put simply…. the sticker price on a low season holiday is not what it’s costing the operator. They are making a loss on it. But they have fixed costs for the aircraft and the hotel irrespective of if they sell the place so they make less loss if you are on the holiday than if you are not. Once you are on the holiday they can further reduce their losses with what you spend whilst out there. Yes, they are making a profit on the high season prices but armed with the knowledge that the low season price is not a true reflection of the cost of the holiday to the operator the price don’t seem quite so extortionate. Shoulder period prices are probably more indicative of the genuine cost of the holiday. But holiday companies are not public services – you would not expect a bike shop to sell you a bike at cost would you?

Better?

An issue which would be helped immensely by having varying numbers of kids in school for 1/4 of the year.

With such a line of thought you can comfort yourself knowing that you’re far from alone amongst the electorate.

> Restrictions not banned.
Thank you

Restricted, and therefore fitting your definition of people who should reconsider their career choices because they “can’t take time off when they need to fit in with school hols”. No?

Mmmm 4 pages in and nobody has mentioned that this would be less of a problem if teachers took fewer holidays. Teachers should get similar amount of holidays to other professions – say 8 weeks including public holidays.

That’ll make reversing the teacher shortages easy!!

An issue which would be helped immensely by having varying numbers of kids in school for 1/4 of the year.

No one said it would help – it might not be worse than the current position though.

With such a line of thought you can comfort yourself knowing that you’re far from alone amongst the electorate.

That’s good to know.

That’ll make reversing the teacher shortages easy!!

Teachers are only in it for the holidays 😯

I’m joking – teachers should be paid significantly more, have better support and have more autonomy to do their job as they see fit – they just shouldn’t get more holidays than me 😉

It’s not been mentioned yet but the dad in the case actually has three children. Two were on half term at the time the holiday was taken, the one that had unauthorised absence goes to a different school and had a half term week that did not coincide with the other two children.

How does he manage that?

His point is that the school rule was over 90% attendance was acceptable and even with the week off his child still was over that so it should be acceptable

Its been a long day, either im missing something or i womt be investimg im Footlaps Corp.

For my own interests I had a quick look at TUI’s figures over the last few years – in a former life I worked for a firm that was bought up by TUI. In the last 10 years they don’t seem to have posted figures with a profit margin ratio of greater than 6% and that was a standout year from one of the most successful firms in the sector. That’s dire – healthy in most industries would be around 30%. Whilst it might seem like you are being ‘ripped off’ by greedy companies in high season that’s a very sucky return. Definitely not to be invested in!

My kids have have been collectively in School for coming up for 10 years and they’ve missed 3 days between them. That’s about a 99.7% attendance does that mean we’ve booked up enough brownie points for a massive cheapo holiday. No it doesn’t!

Your kids and other people kids education is a privilege that for one a lot of people in the world would die for and I pay a fortune in tax to fund.

If you can’t afford your holiday in the school holidays then you can’t afford it whether that’s a week in Magaluf or a week in Val d’isere. I can’t get over this sense of entitlement that people have that they right to the holiday they want or their kids deserve a holiday after studying for Stats. We were so poor when i was a kid didn’t have a single holiday full stop (not in the UK or abroad) by the sounds of it some of you would call the NSPCC as it’s child abuse not to give your children a holiday abroad or a trip to Disneyland. Two of the thing I hate in modern society, wanting everything now snd mollycoddling kids.

I’m taking my kids to a big wood north of Birmingham for the Easter Holidays as that’s all I can afford at the moment. I’m sure they’ll have a great time on their bikes, playing in the woods and avoiding the doggers.

If you can’t afford your holiday in the school holidays then you can’t afford it

What if you can afford it but just don’t particularly like getting utterly shafted for a holiday that was literally a third of the price the previous week?

We were so poor when i was a kid didn’t have a single holiday full stop

Ah once again the “I had a miserable life so you should too” argument. 🙄

If you can’t afford your holiday in the school holidays then you can’t afford it whether that’s a week in Magaluf or a week in Val d’isere.

For me it’s not about the cost.

I’m enjoying your logic here

That’s good to know.

You appear to have misunderstood me.

It was a third the price because there was no demand because kids were in school it’s the market price and your not getting shafted if you don’t go, no one is holding a gun against your head to go on a foriegn holiday. It’s no different to getting the train to London at 7am £250 or 10am £37.

aracer – Member
geoffj » it might not be worse than the current position though.
I’m enjoying your logic here

Good – try not to conflate too many issues and you might just follow the thread 😉

You appear to have misunderstood me.

You’ve not said anything of significance which could be misunderstood – have you?

Not sure if this has been covered but teachers pay more for their holidays too. Are they allowed to take 2 weeks off mid term time to make the most of cheap deals?

Couple of days wouldn’t make much difference to the kids education anyway…

For my own interests I had a quick look at TUI’s figures over the last few years – in a former life I worked for a firm that was bought up by TUI. In the last 10 years they don’t seem to have posted figures with a profit margin ratio of greater than 6% and that was a standout year from one of the most successful firms in the sector.

Several years ago, one part of my job was setting prices for a travel company. The aim was to sell out peak season for as much as the market would take and try and fill enough of the rest of the year to at least make enough money to survive another season. Rich we were not.

You can argue that the peak travellers are subsidising the off-peak or you can argue the off-peak pay just enough to allow the peak to happen. Either way there’s no point complaining – that’s the way the numbers work.

It’s not all about cost though, my brother and his wife works in what left of the British holiday trade, they don’t earn much and don’t take the kids abroad but if he didn’t take them out of school they couldn’t go on holiday as a family from Easter holidays to Autumn half term inclusive. Leaving somewhere in the uk in the winter as the only choice. Our parents were in the trade to and again we would have never have been
This is the reality for many working in the British holiday trade.
I see that it’s not good to have students being able to go for a weeks holiday here that there during term time just so the parents can afford to take the to Disney Land but it’s not the only reason.

Not sure if this has been covered but teachers pay more for their holidays too. Are they allowed to take 2 weeks off mid term time to make the most of cheap deals?

True but they get more paid holiday than most and they save on childcare that they don’t need during school holidays. Others must pay for childcare because they get less holiday than their kids or can’t take it during holiday time.

Would those advocating taking their kids out of school in term time be ok if I ignored a few rules and regulations that I don’t agree with? I think that the 70mph speed limit on the motorway is silly and a bit restrictive so I’ll just crack on as I please if that’s ok with you all?

Of course, the truth of the matter is that as ever a minority of entitled idiots have necessitated a hard rule where discretion would be a better tool. There are plenty of occasions where absence from school for a day or two would do little harm to anyone but as some grown ups can’t be trusted to act like adults and see the bigger picture rules have to be imposed on all.

the matter is that as ever a minority of entitled idiots have necessitated a hard rule where discretion would be a better tool.

Spot on, so much red tape and stupid rules are there because a few take the piss which then negatively impacts the minority or those really in need.

It’s not been mentioned yet but the dad in the case actually has three children. Two were on half term at the time the holiday was taken, the one that had unauthorised absence goes to a different school and had a half term week that did not coincide with the other two children.

How does he manage that?

Maybe go on hols at a different time? It’s not hard to figure out.

Spot on, so much red tape and stupid rules are there because a few take the piss which then negatively impacts the minority or those really in need

No one needs a holiday.

I think that the 70mph speed limit on the motorway is silly and a bit restrictive so I’ll just crack on as I please if that’s ok with you all?

Not really a great analogy, since taking my kids out of school doesn’t tend to endanger anyone’s life, but okay…

So if you faced a £60 fine for speeding on the motorway but not speeding would result in you paying £3000 extra for exactly the same journey then what would you do?

And on top of that, what if your work circumstances meant that driving at a normal speed was impossible anyway?

So if you faced a £60 fine for speeding on the motorway but not speeding would result in you paying £3000 extra for exactly the same journey then what would you do?

Poor analogy – you don’t have to go on holiday so you can choose not to pay the £3000 extra.