Tarot readers / psychics – load of old cobblers?

Don’t take yourself so seriously.

I never do, I just don’t think you’ve ever had a positive comment for me, even when discussing bass guitars…you always have to have a little dig at those a different to you. xx

but its all just a big fat con

totally agree with this. It’s as bad as idiots using laser infra red thermometers, which measure surface temperature for “ghost hunting”…oooooo look a cold spot, yes that’s because you are pointing it at a window, dobbers

you always have to have a little dig at those a different to you

I’ve notice this too.
Maybe he got picked on in the playground or something.

lol, all the nicheists are ganging up on me (I’m assuming ss stands for singlespeed, rather than the Schutzstaffel?).

I never do, I just don’t think you’ve ever had a positive comment for me, even when discussing bass guitars…you always have to have a little dig at those a different to you. xx

It’s meant as light-hearted banter, but some people seem to be very sensitive/somewhat humourless. Also fairly hypocritical.

I do find it funny – for example there are quite a few people on here who ride singlespeeds a lot of the time, but don’t seem to feel the need to define themselves as ‘singlespeeders’ and go on about it all the time.

For some it seems to be a lifestyle choice rather than a type of gearing on your bike. Same with fat bikes.

There are some fat cons just like there are some ineffective scientists that we do not know.

😆

Cobblers it’s not, without doubt there is a sixth sense that some folk can tap into and predict stuff, my Gran had it, occasionally when I’m stupid pissed I come out with all sorts of what I believe to be bollox when ‘palm reading’ young ladies, which has been to correct to be co-incidence far too often to the point I really don’t want to do it.

Now, there are other things that I’ll just illustrate for you as examples where we all tap into some other ‘wavelength’ in extreme circumstance, hair raising on the back of your neck being the most common. In extreme moments in sport when you’re ‘in the zone’ when you get to predict what’s going to happen before it does and line yourself up for it.

OK not quite in the league of communicating with the dead, or psychic manifestations like that woman that got herself arrested for announcing the destruction of the Hood before the Admiralty even knew it had gone down.

So yes there is most definitely something out there that is a brain function not everybody acknowledges and call it a wavelength for want of a better definition. Palm reading, Tarot, Crystal Balls, they just provide a focus that clears the mind gives a bit of auto suggestion to build on then the bollox starts to flow, where it comes from who knows maybe it’s elemental mind reading. But me walking into a bar some pissed woman grabs my hand and says i hear you read palms and I blurt out I don’t do lawyers what’s the chance of that? Never met the woman from that day to this… I was very cynical thought it was all bullshit, then I had a near death experience and ever since I can’t tell you some of the crap I’ve come out with that turned out true.. I’ve spotted pregnancies amongst women who didn’t know, I’ve embarrassed myself talking about abortions that total strangers have had at the instruction of a nasty boyfriend who beat her, it goes on.

So don’t tell me it’s all bollox I wish it was and I try not to do it anymore, it’s weird and unsettling, like everything we don’t understand it’s also very erratic can’t be relied on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

Most of you have got your views so entrenched in “rationality” you can’t see anything beyond that point. Does not compute! 😆

Yes, we should be rational but then unless you can map out rationality in its entirety you are the blind men touching one part of the elephant. Woohoo … way to go science.

igrf – Member

So don’t tell me it’s all bollox I wish it was and I try not to do it anymore, it’s weird and unsettling, like everything we don’t understand it’s also very erratic can’t be relied on.

It is not bollox as the scientific minds perceived them to be. If you have that ability then you are amongst the lucky ones. Perfectly normal. You just need to know how to harness that ability and not to abuse it.

There will be many that are so blinded by life they do not have the time to reflect. You may try to help them see/find themselves but then they may simply consider you tool so let them be …

So don’t tell me it’s all bollox

Ok I won’t.

But I do however have a different opinion to you, that you don’t want to hear.

I’m assuming ss stands for singlespeed, rather than the Schutzstaffel?

You’d be wrong then wouldn’t you.

Seems you need to lighten up a bit instead of reading things into something as simple as a forum name.

FWIW s & s are my first two initials and Jeff is the first part of my last name.
Some maybe you can cheer up a bit now you grumpy tit. 😆

Ok I won’t.

But I do however have a different opinion to you, that you don’t want to hear.

is that opinion based on personal observation and experience? or dogma and adherence to the blind credos of faith or science 😀

In order to believe that psychics can really see the future, you must also believe that your future is predetermined to some extent.

That’s not something I subscribe to, but fair play if you do, must be quite an odd feeling being given a “glimpse” of what life has in store for you.

Who could’ve predicted this would turn into a typical STW argument?

That’s not something I subscribe to, but fair play if you do, must be quite an odd feeling being given a “glimpse” of what life has in store for you.

You feel stupid (as I do a bit now) even talking about it, given when it happens other than to yourself, you’ve no proof, the only thing that ‘proves’ that anything you might say has any foresight or inexplicable knowledge is when the person you might have discussed it with says that what you go on about is true and then if you’re cynical you are sometimes disinclined to believe them, or think they are only saying it to somehow please you.

I’m sure it’s a facet we all possess to varying degree and frankly are mostly too inhibited to attempt to practise because of the absurdity and illogical nature of doing it. There are many examples of precognition anecdotally described, but until it actually occurs to you personally it’s better just to ignore or put them down to chance or coincidence.

All I’d say is the longer you live, the more you look around, the more there is going on that is unexplained by science or religion. Remember religions don’t like things of ‘spiritual’ nature either, mere suggestion of stuff like this would have you burned as a witch or warlock not so long ago.

I’ve always been a fatalist in my outlook on life, I do believe in Karma, and I do believe certain things occur because they were ‘meant’ to be. I know what this forum is like if a thread like this should degenerate into a religious slagging match if the two sides of the God or Not God botherers weigh in and my answer to that is there is only one possible belief structure for any of us and that is of ‘Extreme Agnosticism’ but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seek an answer.
So what it is I’ve no idea, how it occurs is definiteley a brain function and a brain function that works better uninhibited (which in my case usually comes from excess alcohol, I could never attempt it sober).

I’ve had a precognitive occurrence just recently that I can’t discuss right here and now for all sorts of shit legal reasons, but it was very real very lucid and came to pass exactly as the dream suggested it would, so this shit whatever it is, is very real in my world, mores the pity. I’d sooner not know when it’s bad news as so often it appears to be, which is another major drag, really, it’s always a bad news incident that is transmitted more readily than good I’ve noticed.

I would suggest that you learn about “confirmation bias”. I’ve had plenty of occasions when I’ve “predicted” things correctly, but unless you keep acurate track of when you are wrong, you’ll never be able to make an accurate assessment of good your “predictions” are.

Why aren’t there any “psychic” or “Tarot reading” lottery winners?

is that opinion based on personal observation and experience? or dogma and adherence to the blind credos of faith or science

It’s based on lots of different things.

Personal experience, common sense, knowing how many people get ripped off by cold reading etc.

[EDIT- and such things as Confirmation Bias as mentioned above)

“Blind faith” is something that normally leads to believing in such horse shit as “spirit guides” or “fortune tellers” I’m afraid.

Kelvin McKenzie (then editor of “The Sun”) asked “Mystic Meg” to come in for a meeting.

He told her: “Sorry Meg, but we’re making you redundant but that shouldn’t come as a shock because you knew already, right?” 😆

gonefishin – Member
I would suggest that you learn about “confirmation bias”. I’ve had plenty of occasions when I’ve “predicted” things correctly, but unless you keep acurate track of when you are wrong, you’ll never be able to make an accurate assessment of good your “predictions” are.

If I wanted confirmation of it, or sought to make some deal about it or set myself up as ‘Psychic Bob’ maybe I would, but I’m not that convinced, nor that interested in pursuing it as anyone other than what it used to be a bit of a ‘pulling technique’ or boredom alleviation at parties, anyone can read palms you just read up on what the lines mean and use it.
I used to do it to Prostitutes in bars in Germany not wanting to be diverted into the joys of their commercial offerings whilst my mates and younger charges did, and that’s when it first started working for real, when I didn’t actually want anything from the person I’d engaged with.

I only mention all this here as verification of the fact there must be something at work or none of this would have any basis in the first place so disregarding it as ‘total bollox’ which face it is the easiest route and most of us do, is probably wrong.

There are, and they are very few and far between, but there are some very inciteful and gifted types that genuinely have this talent, we are all better at some things than others and some folk are just better at communicating on this ‘other’ wavelength than others and they can tell you stuff about yourself that’s going to happen before it does. Now you might counter that it is auto suggestion and self fulfilling prophesy then springs to mind, but some of the stuff I’ve seen, heard and witnessed, sorry, it goes way beyond any of that is my personal belief.

So don’t be closed minded is my best advice to anyone.

Here’s another strange thing, I had this dog once, a brilliant trail companion, a German Shepherd, when I went overseas he used to go in kennels. He’d comply do all the doggy stuff that goes on in kennels, yet and we worked out later it was the moment I got on the plane to come home, he’d go to the end of the run and become agitated as if I was in the drive and he could see me.
Explain that. Along with the animals knowing the tsunami was coming, and hundreds of other examples of six sense in animals, how come they have it and humans don’t?

is that opinion based on personal observation and experience? or dogma and adherence to the blind credos of faith or science

Ah so the one that uses impartial and demonstratably objective data is the one that is dogma and blind. Belief in psychics is not faith based adherence either 😕

If you cannot see why Grum takes the piss out of stuff like this then I pray your future seeing is superior to your present seeing.

FWIW Psychology used personal experience initially for seeing the human condition but it is useless – see also the placebo affect.

I suspect, like the religious, the vast majority are genuine but wrong.

I only mention all this here as verification of the fact there must be something at work or none of this would have any basis in the first place so disregarding it as ‘total bollox’ which face it is the easiest route and most of us do, is probably wrong.

And yet under controlled conditions no one can demonstrate anything and charlatans like Derren Brown can do all the ” real” psychics can do – funny that eh.

So don’t be closed minded is my best advice to anyone.

Two points.
1. You have to or you let any old shit flood in.
2. This argument is only ever used when people have no actual facts to persuade you

FWIW I am open minded now show me your evidence

but there are some very inciteful and gifted types that genuinely have this talent,

Do you have any empirical data to back up this statement? If not, how can you possibly know? 🙄

So don’t be closed minded is my best advice to anyone.

Don’t be so closed minded to the idea that what you perceive to be evidence of psychic ability is almost certainly not, and that the brain can play some funny tricks on you.

And lol at being accused of being grumpy by people getting all pissy about some mild mickey-taking.

When I was younger my mum was a home help for an elderly lady who did readings using normal playing cards.

I went round just for something to do on a break from Uni. She told me a long list of stuff that had and did come true, some of it terrible.

I would never go to one again on the basis that (i) I don’t want to know and more often (ii) it’s bollocks.

I went round just for something to do on a break from Uni. She told me a long list of stuff that had and did come true, some of it terrible.

You will miss morning lectures and have to steal notes off swotty course mates.

You will get so drunk you will wet yourself.

You will have unprotected sex with a girl whos ename you do not know and you have only half-shouted at on the dancefloor.

You will find a road sign in your bedroom.

There, I’m a psychic 😀

Sigh, okay then here goes

than what it used to be a bit of a ‘pulling technique’ or boredom alleviation at parties, anyone can read palms you just read up on what the lines mean and use it.

Yup they can and the techniques that you use are based on cold reading and barnum statement. Whether you were doing them conciously or not is not the point, that’s how they “work”. They then rely on the readee’s confirmation bias (there it is again) to kick in and accept these vague statement as concrete proofs when they are nothing of the sort.

I only mention all this here as verification of the fact there must be something at work or none of this would have any basis

This is classic confirmation bias. You think you see an effect, you look for it again and again and you see it and remember it. What you don’t do is remember all the times that you were wrong when there was no effect, hence you get “confirmation” of the effect when there infact is none. I’m not suggesting that you do this consciously as it something that we are all susceptible to.

the moment I got on the plane to come home, he’d go to the end of the run and become agitated as if I was in the drive and he could see me.
Explain that.

Coincidence, confusing correlation with causation. There are any number of reasons as to why your dog acted in the way he did, all of them rational and none of them you will be able to disprove.

Along with the animals knowing the tsunami was coming, and hundreds of other examples of six sense in animals

Is there any actual evidence that this actually happens? Afterall how many times has animal behaviour at the moment of a tsunami been accurately recorded?

Junkyard – Member

FWIW I am open minded now show me your evidence

OK show me your palm..

Right, you’re a bad teacher.

You have self worth issues

You are argumentative and waste too much time on the internet.

You will never be truly happy. 😉

I’m seeing the word….

Why are these talents only ever used for fairly unimportant issues?

For years and years we have been recording the state people are in when they reach Intensive Care, the Holy Grail of this research is to predict outcomes…

Can’t anyone with special skills help out?

No, they can’t. Because, as stated earlier, its a load of old bollocks.

Afterall how many times has animal behaviour at the moment of a tsunami been accurately recorded?

It’s widely known that animals can sense earthquakes. It is likely that they can hear some scary infra-sound noises that are a precursor to the quake that freak them out. Or, in the case of fish at least, the changes in stress in the rocks cause large changes in electric fields (see piezoelectric effect) which they can then pick up via their lateral line or other organs.

GrahamS – unfortunately, amongst some other stuff, the stand out prediction was that my best mate would die suddenly in the near future.

But everything you said is also true, so well done.

gonefishin – Member Coincidence, confusing correlation with causation. There are any number of reasons as to why your dog acted in the way he did, all of them rational and none of them you will be able to disprove.

Along with the animals knowing the tsunami was coming, and hundreds of other examples of six sense in animals
Is there any actual evidence that this actually happens? Afterall how many times has animal behaviour at the moment of a tsunami been accurately recorded?

The dog? It did the same thing on more than one occasion and was only reported to me/my wife after the fact, it basically knew the day we were returning every time.

Even today, my current dog(s), know the moment I leave the office. I don’t/didn’t think this trait was even in dispute, that animals have another sense is a given.

Other animals there’s plenty of stuff about on it quick google =

According to a 2400-year-old document, ancient Greeks observed animals including snakes and rats abandoning the city of Helice before a devastating earthquake destroyed it. Throughout history and into the 21st century, reports of strange animal behavior in advance of a natural disaster continue inciting research and speculation, with no clear rationale as to why this happens. Among domestic animals, reports of hens not laying eggs, cows not giving milk, or bees abandoning hives days, hours and even minutes before tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes and more recently tsunamis regularly make news. The most consistent abnormal behavior reportedly comes from dogs. Amid the global studies on this phenomena, China continues exploring animal behavior to forecast earthquakes. One deduction from Chinese studies concludes that not all earthquakes cause unusual animal behavior. Animal sensitivity to geological vibrations and to electromagnetic changes, as well as to shifts in atmospheric pressure, is scientific fact; but validation of whether this sensitivity is the cause of abnormal animal behavior before natural disasters occur still eludes the science world in 2010.

Read more: Signs That Animals Show Before a Natural Disaster | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6186158_signs-show-before-natural-disaster.html#ixzz2BReDs2uI

Is there any actual evidence for that molgrips, or does ‘widely known’ mean the same as ‘widely assumed’?

So assuming you are correct that would be the animals hearing and the fish’s ability to detect electical fields neither of which are in any way supernatural as igrf seems to be implying.

GrahamS – unfortunately, amongst some other stuff, the stand out prediction was that my best mate would die suddenly in the near future.

Very sad but no doubt she’s made thousands of other predictions that didn’t come true. Eventually some of them will end up being right from pure chance.

A lady has started doing this upstairs in my local pub.

No-one turns up. You’d think she would know that in advance if she was any good.

An old boss of mine, way back now, was transfixed and/or fixated with Tarot readings and would spend every Weds afternoon driving the 50 miles there and back to go see a Woman who read his charts/cards/tea leaves etc. Now each time he came back from these trips out he’d be all enthusiastic and would gladly let all know in the office of his impending good/bad/indifferent news that was/is going to/would definitely happen and was convinced she knew him even though they lived so far apart distance wise. He recounted stories of her explaining stuff about his home life, family issues when he was young and recounting others within his families issues/woes/worries. Once he came back in a most off mood, muttering something about a Black Car, New, it being not the car for him, some visions of falling and corners.. That night he was going home and rolled the car, his Black New Volvo, into a farmers field having spun on mud in the country lanes.
Now you could say that what he was told was a self fulfilling prophecy/chance/would happen at some point.

I remain very sceptical.

Though I do read Jonathon Cainers horoscopes once a week for a bit of a laugh.

I’ve just skimmed through all this, but…. can goldfish stop earthquakes then?

One deduction from Chinese studies concludes that not all earthquakes cause unusual animal behavior.

So the answer to my question is no, not really and even if there is an effect there are entirely natural explanations.

In any case none of the supports any of your previous claims that you can predict the future.

I don’t know if this will help but I have had a few experiences with psychic phenomena..

I was spectacularly mentally ill in my late teens and early twenties.. culminating in being prescribed massive doses of mood stabilising anti-psychotic drugs and long stays in the loony bin..

During the peak of my delusion, I followed various astrological guides, I sought tarot readers advice and was completely obsessed with a whole wealth of other psychic stuff that I can’t even remember..

What was interesting was that I believed in it so fully, that eventually I didn’t notice anything that happened outside of the correct predictions, and to all intents and purposes lived a life wholly mapped out and governed by these miraculous prophesies..
A classic case of the self-fulfilling prophesy theory with results ranging from comical to horrific..

I guess what I’m trying to say, with the greatest of respect to everyone present, is that people that completely believe in this stuff are IME, completely stark raving bonkers 😀

I did not say any of this is ‘supernatural’ personally I think it is perfectly natural that any being be tuned into it’s natural environment and it is more the case that humans are tuned out by virtue of education and dogma.

I do not know or profess to know why any of this shit goes on, I’m simply stating that in my limited experience it does.

There is a shit load of research on the subject of ESP, go google, look for yourself.

To my mind it is a person of limited experience that is more likely to simply debunk the existence of ‘other senses’, better to my mind to accept it and attempt to understand why. That doesn’t mean you accept the hocus pocus of every would be tom dick and mystic meg.

But I’d love someone to explain to me for instance why certain character traits are exhibited by folk born at periodic times of the year and forms the basis of Astrology another bullshit source of magic dusters. Yet an extraordinary number of Arians turn up as facist dictators and Librans their polar opposites equally in leading roles in society and Gemini’s in Advertising and Sagitarians in Graphic design and the arts, why is that? Gravitational alignment effecting cell strucure? Does it work opposite for folk born in the Southern hemisphere, I wonder if anyone has even checked.

Don’t you find any of it a tad fascinating?