Suarez ban

If a black guy turned around to me and said “hey my white friend”, even if he said it in an aggressive manner, it would not bother me whatsoever.

What if you’d pissed him off and he called you “a white idiot”?
Racist then?

Nope

Still…

….something else for the scousers to be aggrieved about, and fuel the persecution complex they love so much. So ultimately, everyone’s happy 😉

Believe me, as someone who had never had much hair, even at school, I know what it feels like to have a physical attribute used against me to try and belittle me, and the supposed spat between Suarez and Evra, from what we have heard, doesn’t even come close.

Maybe I’ve just built up a thick skin over the years.

Edit:

…something else for the scousers to be aggrieved about, and fuel the persecution complex they love so much. So ultimately, everyone’s happy

That’s the other thing, people seem to think that the best thing that has come out of this is that Liverpool fans are upset, regardless of either the racism issue, or the fact that a potential injustice has occurred (delete as appropriate, depending on your point of view).

Maybe I’ve just built up a thick skin over the years.

On your bonce? I know that feeling? Wear a hat at all times! Especially in the sun! And moisturise! 😀

On your bonce? I know that feeling? Wear a hat at all times! Especially in the sun! And moisturise!

Racist 😆

With regards to the scousers being upset. Its not that as such. Since King Kenny came back I’ve just been intrigued to see if he can out-Fergie Fergie, so to speak.

Each week is a hotly contested competition to see who can do the best dour, persecuted, its-soooooooooo-NOT-FAIR!!!!!! moral indigence.

Lets be honest: its funny 😆

Thats my point the rules are clearly wrong when decisions like this turn up. Both players use offensive language one player banned 8 games one player not banned at all !

The rule should be you cant use offensive language in the work place just like it is for the rest of us.

Using offensive language to abuse someone isn’t against the law, using racially offensive language to abuse someone is. The rules of football reflect the law of the land, I really don’t see your point.

From what I have heard, and this is yet to be confirmed and may be completely wrong, is that the conversation between the two was in Spanish: Evra called Suarez a “South American…”, Suarez called Evra a “black man…”.

Don’t shoot me if this is wrong, just passing on the rumour.

binners in joining JY et al and making it about the clubs rather than racism shocka. How predictable.

John Terry is being charged – by the CPS, not the FA

John Terry is being charged – by the CPS, not the FA

Great news. Glad the CPS took it on when the FA showed that they’re too cowardly to.
“FA” is such an appropriate acronym don’t you think?

What I’m quite surprised about, and quite impressed by, is that Suarez has apparently admitted calling Evra ‘negrito’

.

Yes I am surprised you are praising a liverpool player its s a real shock.

My point was that this needs to be put in the context of foul abuse of all kinds that is routinely condoned (directly or indirectly) on and off the field at every match – for which the FA and the whole game should frankly feel ashamed.
Frankly calling someone a bast**d shouldn’t be condoned at all (players, managers, refs…). Whether this is elaborated with another adjective of any kind is a second(ary?) insult

Ah go on its Christmas I will agree with you 😉

Yes you are right fans are often immense hypocrites.
I am pretty sure [ old firm derby aside] there is no racist chants at football games – I think Tottenham used to get hisses as the sound of gas in the 80’s by some teams due to jewish associations with said club…surely that does not happen. We have done well to eradicate this remember when John Barnes used to get bananas thrown at him by opposition fans

Even if the translation of the alleged word does have the word

“black” in it, the word “black” is not an inherently racist word, it is our own obssession with political correctness that makes these words rascist.
If a black guy turned around to me and said “hey my white friend”, even if he said it in an aggressive manner, it would not bother me whatsoever.
Oops, I said black: does that make me racist too?

No but there is never any need to refer to race when you are one on one with someone and about to either insult or praise them is there? It is not inherently racist any more than calling a woman love is sexist it depends. Then again you can address them without reference to race so why not just do so so you don’t offend anyone – we are obsessed with being polite …no bad thing tbh.

k

now two wrongs don’t make a right, but what about Evra’s apology to Suarez for using foul and abusive Spanish language, which he openly admitted in his evidence statement? Oh, and where is his ban?

Retaliation is usually viewed worse by the football authorities but the racist element adds something to the – I don’t know why this is hard or contentious for some people to grasp tbh.
There may be some merit in prosecuting Evra and he may well deserve it but you would prosecute a player every week

Each week is a hotly contested competition to see who can do the best dour, persecuted, its-soooooooooo-NOT-FAIR!!!!!! moral indigence.
Lets be honest: its funny

yes

binners in joining JY et al and making it about the clubs rather than racism shocka. How predictable.

Thank god you dont let the fact it was Man u/evra cloud your judgement and you remained as objective as always eh?

I am not anti any football team as I love football and don’t get tribal about it – I have been to anfield more times than Old Trafford- great club, wonderfull atmosphere and have sung You will never walk alone , very rousing hairs on the back of the kneck stuff.
The team he played for is neither here nor there for me whatever you think.

John Terry is so brave

Don’t agree with it all. When playing any sport things get heated and people often say the wrong things which later do regret. To me these are not racist as its a slip of the tongue just like Evra mouthed off ir Suarez. Very harsh ban and mario balotelli summed it up perfectly on twitter.

To me in football theres to much of the blaming each other, just get on with it and play football.

PS – I think racism is completely wrong and should be punished. However in certain heated moments it slips out and to me thats life. If someoene called me a white …something I don’t go crying racism!

Just my tuppens worth by the way!

might invite binners and Don Simon to join me at the Kop fanzine website

I simply said that Evra is a cock. And he is. Everyone knows it. Later that day, all the summarisers on 5Live said it (in more polite terms). Evra will be a cheating diving cock no matter who he plays for. And, as I said, it very quickly demonstrated that more people are interested in who the players are playing for than the actual issue.

Yes I am surprised you are praising a liverpool player its s a real shock.

I’m ‘praising’ him for his honesty, rather than lying, when doing the latter cooduv saved him from any censure.

Now, I expect you as a Scummer will be demanding that Evra do the same and admit what it was he said to Suarez….

No, thought not. 🙄

Sir Stanley Rous would be turning in his grave……

I simply said that Evra is a cock. And he is. Everyone knows it.

No bias in that then, everybody knows it? I wonder if the people of Ghana think he is a cock?

Oh jeez, I dunno. Let me google it. He is though. We all know it.

You can’t use that as a justification!

It’d be far easier to just count the premiership players who aren’t utter cocks!

There was only ever really Scholsey. And he’s retired

Nah, Scholes was a cock too. Fouling ****. Had you said Giggsy, then fair enough but no hang on, he ‘played away’, din’t he? Oh dear.

Gary Lineker?

I’ve been through why I chose to highlight how much of a cock Evra is. Quite a few fell for it too. 😀

Oooh, I have a bit of inside info on Line-acre. He ain’t no saint eeever.

Not Lineker too?

No… tell me it is not so? 😥

Using offensive language to abuse someone isn’t against the law, using racially offensive language to abuse someone is. The rules of football reflect the law of the land, I really don’t see your point.

Im not arguing what the law is. I am arguing what it should be in a perfect situation and what the football authorities should be aiming for to improve the game.

Do you really think using offensive language to abuse someone is fair just because it is not illegal ?????????

Also there are laws against defamation so you cant just go saying what you want about people even if it isnt racist.

Its not clear what Evra said but its quite possible that he said something that is overheard might make people think ill of Suarez.

I dont know if what Suarez said is worse than what Evra said but Evra admitted very strongly abusing him but got nothing. This send out the message that you can abuse people as long as your not rasict.

If Evra got a 1 match ban and Suarez a 100 match ban I could understand the judge deemed what Suarez said is 100 times worse than what Evra said.

But Evra got nothing.

So **** you Jon you mother is a *****.

Which is apparently fine as its not racial.

might invite binners and Don Simon to join me at the Kop fanzine website

a light hearted comment about how they were all outraged and you could poke/troll them..it is hardly the thrust of my view on this subject and a throwaway hunourous [ or not ] line

Now, I expect you as a Scummer will be demanding that Evra do the same and admit what it was he said to Suarez…

ah some more of your bridge building between fans again eh Elfin. Diplomacy really is your thing innit 🙄
You really are a nob if you think calling someone a scummer is helping the relationship between sets of fans..poor really poor
as for the rest well just wrong really
Why not read the Statement from Liverpool where they accept that Evra admitted what he said to Suarez – do you really want me to demand he do something he has already done ?Oddly neither liverpool or yourself praised the honest Evra [ though I am sure you will praise his honesty next post just like you did for brave Suarez, now you have been informed he has done as you wish] but asked that he be charged and yet Suarez should be admired for it …strange that isnt it. Oh my error they praise suarez for evra admitting insulting him whilst demanding evra be charged …how erm noble and not at all biased a position just like yourself

But Liverpool have questioned whether the FA also intends to charge Evra with making abusive remarks to an opponent.

The Anfield statement added: “Evra admitted himself in his evidence to insulting Luis Suarez in Spanish in the most objectionable of terms.

“Luis, to his credit, actually told the FA he had not heard the insult.”

So will you priase Evra for his honesty now – surely he was even more honest as Suarez did not even hear it.

I await your usual partisan position

Do you really think using offensive language to abuse someone is fair just because it is not illegal ?????????

I’m in all kinds of trouble then. Sorry Patrice.

Do you really think using offensive language to abuse someone is fair just because it is not illegal ?????????
I’m in all kinds of trouble then. Sorry Patrice.

Im not saying were all perfect but the the Law should be trying to aim for fairness and make the world a better place.

If the Law is nt based on fairness then frankly what is the problem with being racist ?

Law based on fairness? What kind of crazy mixed-up world are you living in?

I’ve already said Suarez was in the wrong, and deserves punishment.

i’ve also said in a previous thread on this matter, that should Suarez be found to be a racist, Liverpool FC should sack him. Now, in light of the cultural context of his comments, plus Evra’s own belief that Suarez is not in fact a racist, I do not believe this should happen.

Notice how I’ve not actually defended Suarez’ actions regarding his comments to Evra? Notice how I’ve agreed he should face punishment?

Right.

I’m ‘impressed’ that Suarez din’t lie, as he could so easily have done, and in fact bin honest about what he actually said. I’m not impressed that he said owt in the first place.

Suarez will have to learn his lesson the hard way. Fair enough. I have no argument with that.

Evra, however, walks away the ‘victim’ and is blameless, oh yeah, of course. The poor little lamb…

Both acted like a pair of knobs, both said stuff they shoon’t have. One walked away and din’t make a big deal out of it, one did, and we are where we are.

Frankly your all missing the point the FA should of used the case to stamp down on the players using offensive language whether its racist or not by punishing both players.

They’re always complaining about offensive language being used to Refs particularly in Amateur leagues and in also in Junior leagues, often by parents and children who’ve seen it in the Premier league.

This would have been a perfect example to show this type of behaviour is not acceptable no matter what the situation or provocation.

They could wipe out this unsightly aspect of football if they took a strong stand as they have in the case of hooliganism.

Im not arguing what the law is. I am arguing what it should be in a perfect situation and what the football authorities should be aiming for to improve the game.

Do you really think using offensive language to abuse someone is fair just because it is not illegal ?????????

Also there are laws against defamation so you cant just go saying what you want about people even if it isnt racist.

Its not clear what Evra said but its quite possible that he said something that is overheard might make people think ill of Suarez.

I dont know if what Suarez said is worse than what Evra said but Evra admitted very strongly abusing him but got nothing. This send out the message that you can abuse people as long as your not rasict.

If Evra got a 1 match ban and Suarez a 100 match ban I could understand the judge deemed what Suarez said is 100 times worse than what Evra said.

But Evra got nothing.

So **** you Jon you mother is a *****.

Which is apparently fine as its not racial.

Yes, it is absolutley fine. Its well known that in high temper matches players will shout abuse at each other and square up. Anyone trying to put some sort of hippy perspective on football that all should be fair and nice is living in dream world. There are limits however and racial abuse or violent conduct are punished by the FA as they are explicitly against the rules just as they are against the law.

Frankly your all missing the point the FA should of used the case to stamp down on the players using offensive language whether its racist or not by punishing both players.

They’re always complaining about offensive language being used to Refs particularly in Amateur leagues and in also in Junior leagues, often by parents and children who’ve seen it in the Premier league.

This would have been a perfect example to show this type of behaviour is not acceptable no matter what the situation or provocation.

They could wipe out this unsightly aspect of football if they took a strong stand as they have in the case of hooliganism.

I don’t think anyone is missing the point, I don’t think you have one. Agression and football go hand in hand yet yet every week in the premiership players manage to shout abuse at each other without resorting to racist abuse.
What sort of anti racism message does banning the player who has just found to have been racially abused send? It sends the message that black players on the end of that sort of thing should keep their mouths shut.

I don’t think anyone is missing the point, I don’t think you have one. Agression and football go hand in hand yet yet every week in the premiership players manage to shout abuse at each other without resorting to racist abuse.

Well all I can say is I disagree.

Generally when a sports person lets aggression overtake them they start to make bad decisions I know I do when I play football.

Also I manage to play week in week out without resorting to insulting the opposition cant see why this cant be true of professional football too.

Personally I think your bound by the same chains as the FA/FIFA which is what you have stated before. Just because the game of football has been full of abuse in the past doesnt mean it will or should be in the future.

Nothing hippy about it, its plenty possible to play a good strong game of football without swearing/abuse.

Personally I always play best with a controlled physicality once I let that physicality spill over into actual aggression my game suffers. Frankly if I started to abuse the opposition in the same way as Suarez/Evra I’d quickly find myself leaving the field one way or another.

What sort of anti racism message does banning the player who has just found to have been racially abused send? It sends the message that black players on the end of that sort of thing should keep their mouths shut.

It sends the message that they should remain calm till the end of the game and then let the official channels deal with it rather than trying to take the Law in their own hands.

Evra stooped to Suarezs level and therefore in my eyes is guilty too. In fact we dont even know if Evra started the whole thing.

I never said I had a problem with Saurez ban, but Evra now needs to be dealt with in the same manner.

Lets see what the Daily Mash has to say about it shall we?[/url]

Classic from the mash

I missed the bit where you praised Evra’s honesty Elf just like you praised Suarez’s. though you did say this about him

Evra, however, walks away the ‘victim’ and is blameless, oh yeah, of course. The poor little lamb..

I look forward to racially abusing you and you taking it well, not reacting and accepting your blame in the whole affair. Would calling me scummer be enough provocation for you to deserve it? 🙄

I dont agree either that we have to get irate and insult folk – I never understood this when team mates lost the plot tbh but yes it happened.

I dont think Suarez is a racist but I think he used a racial slur well aware of how it would be received – he tried to wind him up which is unsporting but it will occur.

“In the meantime, it would be a lot easier if everyone just stuck to calling Patrice Evra an arsehole.”

Its in the paper, it must be true.

8 games over the Chistmas period, lucky sod…
So, is the sudaca (Suarez) going to complain?

*starts counting*

Now I’m not a legal professional, so I stand to be corrected, but it would seem to me that the FA have not stated either the charge or the verdict very well. The original charge is that: “‘It is alleged that Suárez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United’s Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules. “It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra.'” Now yesterday’s statement makes clear that the verdict is that “Mr Suárez used insulting words towards Mr Evra”. These insulting words “included a reference to Mr Evra’s colour”. What do we make of this? Note that the reference to “behaviour” is not part of the verdict. The emphasis then is on the words used by Suárez, not his behaviour: on the ‘what’, not the ‘how’ (so the issue of ‘how he said what he said’, as James Lawton puts it the Independent, is irrelevant).

The key question, then, is this: What were the insulting words? Whatever they were, it is stated that they included a reference to colour. The one acknowledged reference to Evra’s colour came in the context of a question that Suárez asked Evra. Just to be clear, according to the FA statement, the reference to colour is not in itself the ‘insult’. It presumably influenced the extent of the punishment, but not necessarily the initial verdict. What this means is that the FA must show evidence of insulting words, apart from the use of a word referring to Evra’s colour, to support their verdict. In other words, the issue, as it has been set by the FA in their statement, is not about whether or not Suárez used the word ‘negro’, or ‘negrito’; nor is it about his demeanour when he used the word. It is rather about whether the reference to Evra’s colour came in the context of verbal abuse. I would expect Liverpool FC should have no difficulty acquiring the services of a team of legal professionals who should be able easily to destroy the FA’s case, and overturn the verdict. The odd thing is, if it is true that Evra did indeed utter the words “Don’t touch me, you South American”, allegedly in Spanish, then the case is far clearer that Evra used insulting words which included a deprecatory reference to Suárez’s background, that could be considered tantamount to racist abuse, i.e., of treating another person less favourably on grounds of ethnic or national origin. Moreover, if Evra did say that in Spanish, then the context is a conversation in Spanish, within which the use of ‘negro’ or ‘negrito’ needs to be properly understood. And that would invalidate the argument that Suárez should have been aware of the potentially offensive connotations of the use of the English word ‘negro’ in the UK or other English-speaking countries.