Suarez ban

Here we go… another wonderfully insightful post… .what a level of irony… you claim that Scousers don’t have any insight.. but bring absolutely nothing to the discussion apart from a veiled insult…

Fair enough, I apologise for what was a glib comment. However, I haven’t claimed anything about the Scousers’ levels of insight, but they do have a reputation for a victim mentality, both individually and collectively. I have to say that from personal experience, it is at least partly deserved. It’s applicable here because this is another example of a verdict that will fuel the feeling that there is somehow a conspiracy against Liverpool.

In terms of this discussion, If the FA want to be seen as taking the issue of racism seriously, a big ban was always coming. They’ve not exactly rushed the decision and will be fully aware of it’s impact. Ignoring the linguistic ins and outs, he said something that is deemed unacceptable to the FA, and must suffer the consequences.

Personally I’d like to see harsher penalties for ‘ungentlemanly conduct’ full stop. The “it’s part of the game” argument is nonsense. It shouldn’t be part of the game, it isn’t (to the same extent) in any other sport that I can think of.

With respect DS, you could have chosen a better comparison. More welsh people speak english than welsh, and of course you have to obey the law of the land. It’s the law!

Where’s the law that states you have to speak the language of the land you reside as I understood the poster to be alluding to.

These words are not easy – perhaps almost impossible – to translate into a contemporary English context. How do you judge the weight of a word uttered in a foreign language from a different mindset?

Worth a quick read.

Fair enough, I apologise for what was a glib comment

Thanks fella.

As for the victim mentality, i don’t really understand that myself. If you haven’t already gathered, i am of course a Scouser, born and bred in Anfield less than 150m from the ground. I have attended over 200 matches at Anfield so feel i have a bit of a ‘right’ to comment on football threads.
But, i’m digressing… I know it comes up a lot about Liverpools victim mentality, but IMO it’s really nothing of the sort (apart from in the minotity) what it actually is, is a form of closeness and family mentality within Liverpool as a city and an overall community. Now, considering some of the violence, crime etc in Liverpool, that may suprise some people… but again i see the crime as a minority of the overall community.

I guess the victim mentality is still due in a large context for the campaign for the Justice for the 96 people killed. Once again, i’m not seeing this as ‘victim mentality’ but as a sense and a desire for someone to be seen to be accountable for this horrific day. The fans of Liverpool were not to blame… (in my opinion of course), therefore SOMEONE else must be…

Going over to the other points about the Heysel disaster, i don’t believe Liverpool people are claiming the victim card.

Finally… Whilst i don’t agree with the punishment or even the crime that Suarez is now apparently guilty of, if you take into account that he has been found guilty, then the punishment is fairly appropriate for the offence.. The only thing i ask.. is that John Terry is given an equally harsh/appropriate pentalty in the near future.

People of Manchester, Liverpool and beyond….
Can we gather together as one body and agree on one thing? That TJ doesn’t know what he’s talking about and is, quite possibly, a fool.

As we all know, TJ is an ardent European, and was probably referring to Suarez having played in the Netherlands since he was a teenager. He’s not fresh off the boat from S America.

The only thing i ask.. is that John Terry is given an equally harsh/appropriate pentalty in the near future.

We’ll agree on that, if he’s found guilty, and that’s an equally tricky one.

Ta Garry – thats exactly the point made in the papers I read about this – he must have known its unnaccceptable in europe to use the phrase in the way he did. If he did not know then he should have done

Where’s the law that states you have to speak the language of the land you reside as I understood the poster to be alluding to

I wasn’t alluding to that, sorry if it came across that way, my post was intended as you having to abide by the laws of the land in which your actions are taken irrelevant of the level of acceptability of these actions in another country

I still don’t understand which is the law that prevents you from speaking Spanish.
¿Donde esta Pepe?
Al lado del negro…
Racist or Spanish?

No law preventing you speaking Spanish, the law relates to using the Spanish word for black in reference to Mr Evra, if Mr Suarez had refrained from using Negrito in his statement there would have been no racist connotation, using Negrito in the statement is making a reference to Mr Evra’s race, creed or colour and therefore it becomes racist according to the laws of the United Kingdom.

By simply using the word negro (it means black), by your definition I’m being racist and therefore being discriminated against simply because of vocabulary.
Religious swearing in the UK is seen as acceptable yet in Spain it is the worst form of bad language. Could you imagine the outcry if Beckham had been given an 8 week ban for saying “Christ! What a miss!!!”
Yet I would be pulled up in the UK for the repeated usage of “coño” simply because it would be misinterpreted and mistranslated.
I can’t believe how narrow minded some people can be.

Interesting link DS, thanks.

Probably the most revered figure in the history of Uruguayan football is Obdulio Varela, captain of the side that won the World Cup in 1950. His nickname was “El Negro Jefe” – the black boss.

Among Suarez’s team-mates these days is Maxi Pereira, who is known as “El Mono” – the monkey. It is a nickname which, apparently, is given and accepted with no offence meant or taken.

Again, this comes down to intent, not language. These guys have nicknames bestowed on them without malicious intent, and take them in the spirit of which they are given. Quite different to referring to the colour of someones skin whilst insulting them. Regardless of culture, you’re on very dodgy ground if you do.

By simply using the word negro (it means black), by your definition I’m being racist and therefore being discriminated against simply because of vocabulary.

Disagree, you are allowed to say that someone is black in a factual manner. Not when it’s clearly meant derogatively (is that a word?)

don simon – to take your example, if Beckham had used a term considered offensive in Spain I would have expected him to pay the price. Hopefully he would have learned the lesson.
Suarez has used a term considered offensive here (and nobody surely can be so deluded that they think Suarez said it in a positive way). He’s paying the price and should learn from it.

What would have happened if Liverpool and been playing Spurs and he’d called van der Vaart a Yid? Historically a derogatory word, but v d Vaart will receive a “Yiddo, Yiddo” chant from the Spurs faithfully very time he takes a corner. So context has to be taken into account.

Having said that, knowing his previous form (that handball in the world cup) and what he has, sooo stupidly, done since (stinking his finger up) I’m more than happy to see him get banned, especially as I’m a proud Yiddo … Cmon you Spurs.

Again, this comes down to intent, not language. These guys have nicknames bestowed on them without malicious intent, and take them in the spirit of which they are given. Quite different to referring to the colour of someone’s skin whilst insulting them. Regardless of culture, you’re on very dodgy ground if you do.

clarke carlisle spoke on this and what he said was it was legal to chop the hand of thieves in some middle eastern countries and cultures but that does not make it acceptable here. See also say wife beating, child exorcisms , beating children for other examples where we view “cultural norms ” as unacceptable

By simply using the word negro (it means black), by your definition I’m being racist and therefore being discriminated against simply because of vocabulary.

this all depends words can have different meanings depending ion who says them. I could call a gay friend an big Nancy boy in jest but if we were out and someone else did it we would both be outraged and challenge them. Same with the N word here. Many folks use it for their peers but they would probably not be keen on a white middle aged middle class dude using it to them
..hey N word that was my parking space – it is unlikely to be taken as banter or as sign of respect or how street I am.

It would seem obvious Suarez use was not a term of endearment/respect so again we are left with it being used to provoke a response.

I dont think Suarez is a racist tbh but it was unwise to use those words in this country even if he can abroad/elsewhere.

It is hardly a radical thought to say words have different meanings and different intents though it may be difficult to work them out without knowledge of the speaker.

I think everyone’s missing the most important point here. The racist little scouse sod has buggered my fantasy football team right up!

I had him up front with Rooney. He was doing alright too 🙁

You have to love football!!

This is a game that condones racist, offensive, sexist, foul…etc…chanting along with blatant disrespect for match officials from all concerned and then over-reacts in this situation. This is not to say that I condone racist behaviour in any way, rather that the context needs to be understood. Put what Suarez does in the heat of a match and compare it with Sepp Blatter’s behaviour. Then Joey Barton’s contribution!! What a great national game we have?!!?

I spend a lot of time working in Africa and the word black is used freely, correctly and in the correct context without malice or offence. It takes time to adjust to this coming from our society where we struggle to get our heads around what is and what is not genuine racism.

Fine ban Suarez but football, the whole system needs to understand that abusing people in anyway at their place of work is wrong and unprofessional.

This is why both Seb Blatter and the FA are in the wrong in my opinion Seb Blatter for suggesting Ezra should just shrug it off and the FA for not punishing Ezra as well.

In the same way that in the 60’s it was considered fine to break a man leg if you got the ball, it is now still considered fine that mental abuse can be used as a legitimate part of the game to gain advantage.

I would suggest that these cases where one player gets an 8 match ban for racism and another gets away scot-free show that this period is coming to end.

It should be encouraged that player should nt insult either in the hope of gaining a small mental edge in the same way the players are now encouraged not to break each others legs.

Hopefully next time Suarez will report whoever of unprofessional conduct ie (swearing and intimidation at the place of work) rather than resort to this sort of language.

Don’t worry! Panic over! I’ve sold him and got Sturridge up front instead. He’s looking good at the moment. And with the money I made on the deal, I’ve beefed up my defense with micah Richards

Just thought I’d let you know, in case anyone was worried. That is all

He’s not fresh off the boat from S America.

What, a banana boat or something? 😕

Oh the irony of complaining about racist behaviour, then using a culturally and racially insensitive comment like ‘off the boat’. Do you have any idea of why such a comment would be offensive? Obviously not…

Yeah, cos like all immigrants come over here on boats, it’s not like they might use more modern forms of transport to get here, oh no…

Wunundred!

I thought they all fell out of trees?

What, bananaz?

No, silly! Boats!

You’re bloody right as well, Binners!

😯

spend a lot of time working in Africa and the word black is used freely, correctly and in the correct context without malice or offence. It takes time to adjust to this coming from our society where we struggle to get our heads around what is and what is not genuine racism.

there is no history of the term being used pejoratively though like over here. the n word could be a descriptor like white and **** an abbreviation like Scot but they are not.
Africa is not free of racism but they don’t use black as racist term in the same way we don’t use white as one.
have you heard mugabe and his use of the term white for a more relevant examples.

It’s an interesting debate isn’t it?

We have a multicultural premiership allied to a very British notion of what constitutes racism. That’s the core issue and it isn’t being addressed.

I think the question that must be asked, which no-one else seems willing to do, is:

What would Big Ron do?

Slightly off topic but did Balotelli really dress as Santa and drive around Manchester giving out money from the window of his car! Please please let it be true!

I think the question that must be asked, which no-one else seems willing to do, is:

What would Big Ron do?
Buy some jewellery, light a cigar or slap a waitress’ arse.

Slightly off topic but did Balotelli really dress as Santa and drive around Manchester giving out money from the window of his car! Please please let it be true!

It is true.

Buy some jewellery, light a cigar or slap a waitress’ arse and call someone a ‘lazy ****’

FTFY…

Let’s have a look at the teams Big Racist Ron has managed…

1971–1974 Kettering Town
1974–1978 Cambridge United
1978–1981 West Bromwich Albion
1981–1986 Manchester United
1987–1988 West Bromwich Albion
1988–1989 Atlético Madrid
1989–1991 Sheffield Wednesday
1991–1994 Aston Villa
1995–1996 Coventry City
1997–1998 Sheffield Wednesday
1999 Nottingham Forest

Well I never! 😯

Hate to say it about a City player, but Balotelli is bloody great!!! A refreshing antidote to the John Terry’s of this world

The Big Ron comparison is not a silly and fatuous as it might sound. Like Suarez he too had plenty of people coming to his defence saying that he is not a racist and was very stupid in making the remark that he did. In Suarez case it is Uruguay teammates, Gus Poyet etc. and in the case of Atkinson it was a myriad of black players who had played for him over the years swearing he treated them exactly the same as anyone else in the dressing room.

The similarity is neither man was punished for being a white hood wearing, far right supporting, storm front posting bigoted racist, they were punished for saying something that is racist. Both men did it and whilst one has lost half a weeks wages and got a Christmas off the other lost almost his entire livelihood.

What I’m quite surprised about, and quite impressed by, is that Suarez has apparently admitted calling Evra ‘negrito’. Now, he wooduv bin advised by lawyers and stuff on hat to say, and quite frankly, if he’d gone in and denied saying owt, then ittud simply be his worked against Evra’s and probbly nowt wooduv happened.

Surely his honesty should go in his favour, no?

We have a multicultural premiership allied to a very British notion of what constitutes racism. That’s the core issue and it isn’t being addressed.

Rubbish the core issue is the FA/FIFA are saying it is fine to insult opponents in one way but it is nt in another way.

If they issued a statement stating that offensive language and deliberate taunts are no longer to be part of the game. They could then ban players appropriately.

The problem is the FIFA/FA heads are very old exfootballers who still think that insulting the opposition is a valid part of the game and are unable to move forward and accept it should be removed.

In otherwords they want to have there cake and eat it, ie they still condone aggressive offence language, while at the same time they want to condemn rasism.

Therefore they come up with these ludicrous decisions to ban one player for a non-PC insult and not the other player for just as offensive PC insults when both players should be punished.

One type of insult is against the rules and one isn’t. So they punish the one who broke the rules just as they have done so in the past with other players who commited similar offences. How dare the FA be consistant!

One type of insult is against the rules and one isn’t. So they punish the one who broke the rules just as they have done so in the past with other players who commited similar offences. How dare the FA be consistant!

Thats my point the rules are clearly wrong when decisions like this turn up. Both players use offensive language one player banned 8 games one player not banned at all !

The rule should be you cant use offensive language in the work place just like it is for the rest of us.

JY

I understand that words such as black/Pak/****/White/honkey etc can all be used in different ways from the merely descriptive to the deliberately offensive. So an Indian newspaper will happily run a headline including the word “Pak” or “****” without question, whereas this would be seen as offensive over here.

In this case, if it is all about the reaction (alleged) to the word negrito then there is some ambiguity. And the FA in all its glory have chosen to make a stand. My point was that this needs to be put in the context of foul abuse of all kinds that is routinely condoned (directly or indirectly) on and off the field at every match – for which the FA and the whole game should frankly feel ashamed.

Frankly calling someone a bast**d shouldn’t be condoned at all (players, managers, refs…). Whether this is elaborated with another adjective of any kind is a second(ary?) insult

Suarez has used a term considered offensive here (and nobody surely can be so deluded that they think Suarez said it in a positive way). He’s paying the price and should learn from it.

The term has allegedly used does not even exist here, there is even no proper translation of it that portrays the meaning behind it, so how can it be a term that is considered offensive?

Even if the translation of the alleged word does have the word “black” in it, the word “black” is not an inherently racist word, it is our own obssession with political correctness that makes these words rascist.

If a black guy turned around to me and said “hey my white friend”, even if he said it in an aggressive manner, it would not bother me whatsoever.

Oops, I said black: does that make me racist too?

Surely his honesty should go in his favour, no?

I think it would have done if he had come clean at the beginning and openly admitted and apologised for what he said. Unfortunately I think he has had very bad advice from his club who have behaved at the very least naively throughout the whole affair. I think they come out of this worse than he does.

I think it would have done if he had come clean at the beginning and openly admitted and apologised for what he said. Unfortunately I think he has had very bad advice from his club who have behaved at the very least naively throughout the whole affair. I think they come out of this worse than he does.

I know two wrongs don’t make a right, but what about Evra’s apology to Suarez for using foul and abusive Spanish language, which he openly admitted in his evidence statement? Oh, and where is his ban?