STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

* Wood included on “English media” above 😉

Ireland have been steady. A bit grinding. And done enough to be 2 from 2. no more. Don’t agree that this France team are so bad, but we’ll see against other teams.
Ireland are a team in transition, 5 starts for their first choice centre pairing as opposed to hundreds as previously, a relatively new (good) coach, and a decent batch of young players coming through.
There’s some real talent too, but injuries make a difference as there isn’t the numbers of players as a France or England. If they can avoid more injuries and the other “experienced” fellas hang in there, they can have a good year hopefully.
Fairly excited at the potential, rather than confident based on proven class is a better description.

k57
Do you still think this is England’s second team , like you claimed earlier when you were getting your excuses in before the Wales match?

Kryton57 – Member

Then you should stop making stupid statements. The evidence over the last two seasons (at least?) would suggest England don’t know their best team,nor how they want to play. My “opinionin” would also be one shared by the media,and indeed the selection policy of your coach. Sam Burgess for England Saxons anybody? Sod that; Joel Tomkins for England full team! England are the only home nation that has any chance of ever winning the WC. However as stated above they can’t do it by playing route one rugby. Since you are so important..”In my opinion” although not exclusively.

Yes I do. I think that if the usual suspects would have been fit they would be in the team.

BUT I do think some of this lot – JJ being the obvious example – have suprised Lancaster and moved themselves into contention for first team places in the Nirvana that might be a fully fit set of 30 or so players.

JJ vs 36 or Barritt?
Haskell vs Wood?
Billy V vs Morgan
Kruis / Attwood vs Lawes/Launchbury?
Marler vs Corbs?
Hartley Vs Webber?

Like others, I’m not sure I’m convinced about just how poor Wales performance actually was/how good Englands was until we face Ireland.

Fairly excited at the potential, rather than confident based on proven class is a better description.

Good post Loum, and exactly how I feel about the england team.
Look at the heaped praise on JJ and your Henshaw, they both only have about 7 caps and they are the next coming already! JJ was rubbish for at least 5 of those caps! (a while ago admittedly).

Ireland play well to a very specific gameplan and have done for a little while now. I don’t think they are particularly “over-hyped” IMO, more steady performers that you know what you are getting from them. I don’t think they are going to bother the SH teams but it isn’t a stretch to see they take the 6N. I don’t think many people in the media or otherwise have ever said much beyond this.

There are rightly good expectations for Ireland but the difference with England is that the players are not giving interviews in the media like they’ve turned a corner in two games and are now suddenly world beaters. England have played slightly differently every few games for the last few seasons with pretty different teams each time. They are almost burdened with too much talent, albeit talent that changes from game to game and doesn’t have a huge amount of caps under its belt. England have too many good players but no world beaters IMO, despite Bombers claims England now have “X-Factor” coming out of their ears

Then you should stop making stupid* statements

*In your opinion of course

As per the theme du jour, care to point out which ones are “stupid”? and before you do, just to clarify:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Look up stupid in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

Stupid may refer to:

Stupidity, a lack of intelligence
Stupid (art movement), a group of artists in Cologne, Germany, in the 1920s
“Stupid” (song), on Raven-Symoné’s self-titled album
“Stupid” (Sarah McLachlan song), on the album Afterglow
“Stupid”, a song by Swedish musician Per Gessle on his album The World According to Gessle
Stupid!, a UK children’s television show on CBBC
Stupid.com, a web site

Asking me if I had spoken to the England coach,or your trolling rubbish about the Welsh last week.

That does annoy me. After the failure of the “valleys industry” you’d have thought they’d thank us for creating money & employment while we pour money into that Bridge and the local economies when we visit the Trail centres.

crass by anybody’s standard.
So in your case, I will go for you fulfilling the criteria for A)
Thanks for taking the time to go and dig up a wiki link.

Hey Kryton57 – just do a bit of deep breathing and…….calm. 😉

This thread is just about people’s opinions, mine included. If you like, I’ll add “in my opinion” to every future statement.

I believe England have a PE teacher with no prior experience of international rugby as their head coach and an ex RL forward as their backs coach.

They have stumbled upon the current style of playing purely because of injuries. If OF was fit would they be playing the same way?

SL has struggled to identify the best players from a vast pool of talent. Partly because the coaching team seem obsessed with the stats on their laptops rather than what’s actually happening on the field.

How else could Goode be preferred to Foden? Farrell to Cipriani? Barritt to anybody?

(In my opinion.) 😆

despite Bombers claims England now have “X-Factor” coming out of their ears

Interesting point. Who are the “X Factor” players in each team?
I suppose that these game changers are likely to be backs.

Scotland; from what I have seen it has to be Hogg?
Wales; Gotta be JD2?
Ireland; Bowe? Sexton?
France; hmmm. Fofana would seem the obvious answer but he’s not been much kop so far.
England; Most would probably say JJ, but IMHO it’s Watson.
Italy; Has Parisse got the X factor? Are we allowed forwards? Robinson?
What say you?

What say you?

France have plenty of “X Factor” players.

Parra, Trinh-Duc, Picamoles, Fickou – Oh! Hang on a minute, none of them have been picked. 😆

I never realised Trinh-Duc was a Vietnamese name but there you go:

Trinh-Duc was noted as one of the first ever rugby players of Vietnamese origin to play for the French national side. His paternal grandfather, Tr?nh ??c Nhiên, was born in French Indochina, migrated to France during the First Indochina War, and settled near Agen in Lot-et-Garonne. Nhien later married an Italian woman, and Trinh-Duc’s father, Philippe was born.

Hey Kryton57 – just do a bit of deep breathing and…….calm.

Well fair enough, but over the last few days Duckman does appear to have personally targetted me each time I’ve posted, having seen his best mate apparently take a “rest” for a few days after playing out the same treatment. Like I said, they can dish it out with all the anti-English sentiment but they can’t take the opposing jibes, as demonstrated by his post above which is indicative of him still seething about it…

So, my humble and sincere apologies AA and Duckman and other Welsh folk for my antagonistic post, but if you could in future post with equal respect to us English and leave out the Orc comments that’d be nice, cheers.

Getting on with Rugby then;

They have stumbled upon the current style of playing purely because of injuries. If OF was fit would they be playing the same way?

SL has struggled to identify the best players from a vast pool of talent. Partly because the coaching team seem obsessed with the stats on their laptops rather than what’s actually happening on the field.

How else could Goode be preferred to Foden? Farrell to Cipriani? Barritt to anybody

I agree with this sentiment, and perhaps I’ve been negligent in not communicating it correctly.

Well done. 🙂

Nope,my pop at you was based entirely on your post about the Welsh. Nor is AA either my best mate,or am I targeting you,I posted about SL not having a plan,you demand I clarify it as in my opinion.And I would like to to ref my anti English sentiment. But apology accepted.
And after all that,have you also just agreed with me as NMB has just posted what I have said about the inability of England to choose their style of play/best team.

Like I said, they can dish it out with all the anti-English sentiment but they can’t take the opposing jibes,

Dear God get over your self we are talking about a game no more no less 😆

What was the Orc comment? Isnt that what all forwards are known as?

One of the things I love about rugby is the good-natured banter between opposing supporters

TJ named the English team the Orcs and MJ the Orcmaster (or reported it on here). Ant-English sentiment I tell you,and from an Englishman as well!

I thought it was from the Trundle Orc tactic (or similar) used so successfully over the years? 😆

the difference with England is that the players are not giving interviews in the media like they’ve turned a corner in two games and are now suddenly world beaters.

Are they? Can’t say I’ve noticed that in the least! Genuinely thought that the English players are pretty humble, it’s the press that tries to hype things up, both pro and ant English as that sells papers (who’d have thought!)

They have stumbled upon the current style of playing purely because of injuries. If OF was fit would they be playing the same way?

This in spades. The change in Englands playing is down to this and Barretts injuries. The forwards are same same, despite that there’s a lot of first place names missing. This is a very good thing.
The backs look very much like there’s a flyhalf in there who will take a ball flat and fix a defence to allow some space for the backs. And if required, kick reasonably intelligently for the space, not down the throat of the opposing back 3. There’s no way that fazlet would play in this way, and in fact, there’s a bloody good reason that Ford has kept him out of the flyhalf birth in all England age group stages as well. Cips might well be as good as Ford, but I’m sure he’ll go straight down the pecking order when Farrell is fit, especially as he’s now committed to England for the next couple of years.
Anyone think we’re going to see a JJ wing and Tuilagi centre combo come world cup time?

Are they?

No, they’re not.

Anyone think we’re going to see a JJ wing and Tuilagi centre combo come world cup time?

Yes. Burrell, Tuilagi JJ, Watson and Brown on the same pitch interchanging where appropriate, at very least Tuilagi as an impact sub and May goes off JJ to move onto the Wing.

Assuming good form, oooof…

Now that actually looks like a good set of backs. I’ve not felt like that in 10 years!

TJ named the English team the Orcs and MJ the Orcmaster (or reported it on here). Ant-English sentiment I tell you,and from an Englishman as well!

Wasn’t that the Australian press in 2002/3? I’m sure I saw a picture Vickery, Rountree, hooker (can’t recall the name) and some others with fangs and little pointy horns from an aussie paper.

Wasn’t it `white orcs on steroids’ in 2003 in ref to the size and demeanour of the England pack? Not sure why anyone would get in a tiz about that unless I’m missing something.

The problem with Tuilagi has been that if you stopped him you stopped England. Admittedly he’s pretty hard to stop, mind you.

He can’t/won’t pass so the outside backs rarely got any decent ball from him. Inside centre might have been a good place for him if he could have been taught to play there in the way that the ABs converted Ma’a Nonu from a Tuilagi-esque wing to one of the world’s best 12s.

I don’t think England have the coaching ability to that, however.

Except that simply isn’t true when he plays for Leicester. He off loads more often than goes to ground, and often puts other players away due to the fact he get attention of at least 2 guys every time he gets the ball.
He’s asked to do a job, bash it up, take out 4 defenders and maybe break through if there’s only 2. Not entirely fair he then gets stick for playing to the game plan!
Will be very interesting to see him develop next season when Aaron Mauger has had time to teach him a bit more and hopefully, bring a bit to fight back to the Leicester backs!

But that is a club level tinybits,he doesn’t do it for England. I think England would be better served with Burrell as the blunt and Joseph as the sharp. I also think you have to find space for Dailey.

Not sure why anyone would get in a tiz about that

Nor me. It’s not particularly insulting or offensive.
I do seem to remember Tj calling his countrymen “trundlemuppets” or similar, which is obviously pretty insulting. Much as I liked the bloke, things like this remind me of why he was banned.

Burrell as the blunt and Joseph as the sharp

Me too. Burrell does a lot of stuff better than manu. He misses less tackles, is far better and more willing to contribute at the breakdown, kicks better and has a better rugby brain. He’s not as blunt as some think. I can see either manu or JJ as super subs. I can’t see them both playing.

anyone think we’re going to see a JJ wing and Tuilagi centre combo come world cup time?

would make more sense the other way round.
Pointless playing JJ outside Manu. Wasted skills.
But if he’s quick enough, and can cope with the defense, then Manu’s a decent finisher/strike runner and could get put away nicely by a centre who can pass.

Will be very interesting to see him develop next season when Aaron Mauger has had time to teach him a bit more

Good point.

would make more sense the other way round.

Manu isn’t fast enough to play on the wing at international level. He proved that in the 1st Test in NZ.

Ireland should be favourites for the match and the championship, but it’s always a relief when the anti-English vitriol begins. Sure sign that we are doing better than expected. Phew, that’s a positive.

Just watched Rugby Club on BT Sport – Adam Jones said he retired from Wales because they weren’t picking him. Madness!!

Madness!!

I don’t know, sounds like a pretty good reason to retire to me

anti-English vitriol begins

😆

I mean madness for Wales to discard him coming up to RWC!

Seems that Roberts will end his contract early in France to return back to our fine shores. Interesting to see that the big money France bubble seems to have burst for a lot of the big names… realizing that getting no game time and the setup in some teams isn’t great for an international career. It would be nice to see mini Jiffy get some decent game time and form ahead of the RWC too.

I mean madness for Wales to discard him coming up to RWC!

It is all a bit of a weird situation, there must be more going on. Having said that, Adam hasn’t managed to last too much of an international recently and isn’t super dominant in the scrum any more so you can understand looking elsewhere for backup. Maybe he just threw a wobbly on being overlooked this one time? Wales’s answer to BOD-Lionsgate? 😀

I mean madness for Wales to discard him coming up to RWC!

I know, I was joshing…. 😉

I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but he was the main guest on RT. He seemed to suggest that he hadn’t heard at all from Gatland about either his non-selection or retirement.