STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

10 weeks sounds like a lot

That’s because it is a lot. 😀

Off to Sale V Saracens today, Cips back for Sale & Sarries always put out a very strong team – especially with first choice flyhalf Charlie Hodgson!

Sale beat Saracens 14-10, pretty good result against Sarries. Hodgson pulled out out before the game so Goode moved to flyhalf. At least Saracens didn’t have to resort to the work experience flyhalf in Farrell junior.

Good result for sale and Northants, getting very tight at the top, hope tigers can put one over Irish tomorrow.

Rather hoping for the reverse!

I guess we’ve just had too many false dawns.

I find it unbelieveable that after the two 6N games we have had anyone considers this a dawn of any kind. Bu there is no stopping the press. The reality is that Ireland will beat us and we could easily trip over scotland or france. Not looking world beating in my crude eyes.

England’s pack is right up there with the best, and our defence has always been very good. The fact we are starting to put together a multi-faceted attacking game makes this the most interesting England team in the last 10 years.

England’s pack is right up there with the best, and our defence has always been very good. The fact we are starting to put together a multi-faceted attacking game makes this the most interesting England team in the last 10 years.

Agreed. If they can can all gel come RWC time. It’s interesting that Lancasters kept the match 15 together for training this week. Adding Nowell to the training team is a wake up / potential substitute for May. One wonders, should the injured return, they won’t be finding there way straight back into the team but Benched subs in the pool matches?

A multi faceted attacking game? Is that a new term for a rolling maul?

Er, no!

Attack via :
-Strong scrum
-rolling maul
-big fwd ball carriers
-scrum half round the fringes
-flat FH with run/pass/kick options
-running centres with gas/good footwork
-fast wings
-footballing FB.

You can’t defends everywhere!! If you blitz England now they have a layered attack and can spread it wide. If you spread wide they have powerful runners tight in.

Whilst England are far from the finished article, they are developing a game to worry any team on their day.

How many tries did Italy score against the awesome defence?

England have a bit of momentum against poor teams at the moment but are by no means looking like RWC winners. Attacking threat is basically maul and JJ. Everything else mentioned is just par for a reasonable international team . It will be interesting to see how they go against a half decent team

Let’s remeber England went well against the top 3 last year with a back line and perhaps back three less accomplished than this one. I’m not trying to hide that a loss is a loss by saying that.

I think they underrated Italy / fell asleep in that first 20 If they can gel and trust each other and execute until they are comfortable with each other i think this is a good team, with possibly the best international bench in the tournament. It’s a form team with good individual skills, now it needs refining to play heads up winning rugby from 0-80 mins. Ireland away are a good marker IMO, if they win that and look good doing it they are in a very good place. I’m concerned about Sexton / Bowe vs May though I think that’s a massive weak link for England v Ireland.

The “numbers” people have reported that not all the England players played to there fitness potential in the Italy game, which to me says they either weren’t up for it – unlikely – or at some point thier foot was off the gas. The latter is obviously the issue

our defence has always been very good.

Always?

30-3 ring any bells?

🙂

That game didn’t exist!!!

I’m concerned about Sexton / Bowe vs May though I think that’s a massive weak link for England v Ireland.

I’d worry more about a decent pack making England work harder up front. At the moment they are working overtime covering a massive amount of the pitch and giving the backs a somewhat easy ride- a tougher pack would likely expose more than just May… I’m not sure Ireland have that pack as the front row is a little off but I’m looking forward to seeing how the Ireland backrow go. I do expect a fairly comfortable England win though as it is hard to see the points coming from anywhere but a maul or Sexton’s boot for Ireland.

Last night I had a dream that Ireland won 30-10 and Marler was sent off 🙂

30-3 ring any bells?

I think we were guilty of letting the appalling refereeing of Walsh get to us. Aside from the scrum he missed hands on the floor leading to the game breaking try. We just gave up mentally and Wales ran out comfortable winners.

. Everything else mentioned is just par for a reasonable international team . It will be interesting to see how they go against a half decent team

A bit harsh on our first opponents – Crikey!

A bit harsh on our first opponents

Accurate though. England look OK. Not a lot more than that. Luckily, none of the other teams look much better than “OK”, in fact only Ireland could qualify for such a description.

It is encouraging don’t get me wrong, but it should be a lot more than encouraging this close to a RWC, which going by the performances so far, no NH team are in with a snowballs chance of winning.

30-3 ring any bells?

I think we were guilty of letting the appalling refereeing of Walsh get to us. Aside from the scrum he missed hands on the floor leading to the game breaking try. We just gave up mentally and Wales ran out comfortable winners.

Eh? You got played off the park! Do you adapt historical events for Hollywood for a living?

England need to consistently beat the top sides (Ireland included) to be RWC contenders.

We have a dismal record against the SH giants.

A decent win over Wales and beating the worst side in the 6N by six tries to three doesn’t make us world beaters.

The Irish play a very limited but highly effective game which England may struggle to overcome. As did SA and Australia.

I still sense that England are only playing this way because they’re being forced to by loss of personnel. The coaches still have little idea who they’d pick if everyone was fit. Ben Youngs is bound to go AWOL in a big match at some point – hopefully not on Sunday – but when it happens and he gets dropped the scrum half pecking order is all over the place.

Ireland know where they’re going and how they’re going to get there. England don’t.

A decent win over Wales and beating the worst side in the 6N by six tries to three doesn’t make us world beaters.

Agreed, but it’s marginally more preferable than squeeking past the worst team by 2 tries and narrowly beating the worst french team in some years (and conceding more tries than you scored).
England aren’t the only team being over hyped here.

You’ll have to enlighten us wrecker. Who’s being over-hyped and where have you read the over-hyping?

You’ll have to enlighten us wrecker. Who’s being over-hyped and where have you read the over-hyping?

Both England and Ireland are. There are plenty of examples on this thread alone.

Oh right.

Can you point some out? (I’m particularly interested in examples of the green machine being over-hyped tbh.)

Can you point some out? (I’m particularly interested in examples of the green machine being over-hyped tbh.)

Thought you might be. TBH, I can’t be bothered. If you say that you haven’t got the vibe that some believe that Ireland have been playing well then I believe you…. 😀

Ok, fairy nuff, I’ll take that as an “I can’t” then.

Ireland know where they’re going and how they’re going to get there. England don’t.

I like the way people say this as if they are part of the coaching set up and know exactly whats going on.

Of course, its possible that Lancaster and crew are running around like headless chickens, but I suspect that a series of professional coaches such is there employ are not doing so.

I suspect the real issue is that Lancaster has lived up to his promise to pick on form, yet some players haven’t repeated that form outside of their clubs, or although doing well as club level are being outperformed at international level.

JJ is a classic example of someone who hasn’t done that, as is Burrell, as is Haskell currently as is Robshaw, Kruis, Marler, Morgan and Watson and recently Cole.

The others, 36, Alex Goode, The Idiot winger, Lawes recently (who looked a bit tired tbh), Wood all have been exposed by those above. I think Billy V isn’t as happy as he appears either and is struggling after 60.

So Lancaster has been let down by his policy or the players, but – luckily – appears to have found a team at the 11th hour.

Ok, fairy nuff, I’ll take that as an “I can’t” then.

Take it however you like.

England don’t know how they want to play. 2003; knarly set of forwards and destructive back row backed up by a couple of real genius players in the backs. 2015…Plan changes from game to game,and it isn’t because they are playing what is in front of them.Really good teams have a way of playing which you know is coming but they impose their game on you.England 2003,Wales two years ago with Warrenball (it REALLY wasn’t the ref)The AB’s are the prime example,they have played the same way for what, 6 years now? Even club sides can do it, Wasps with the rush defence,Tigers with the death by scrum/maul.

Well, I dunno dude. You make a statement of fact, and you’re asked to provide examples and you just say “I can’t be bothered”. How else can anyone take it? There I was thinking this was a discussion, but hey, fairy nuff, my mistake. 😐

England don’t know how they want to play

How do you know this? Did Stuart give you a call and let you know?

I like the fact people here can’t pick how England are going to play, keep ’em guessing.

It’s like a pre-game battle to see who can be the underdog. 🙂

(Apart from all those (plenty apparently) hyping the green machine.)

Well, I dunno dude. You make a statement of fact, and you’re asked to provide examples and you just say “I can’t be bothered”. How else can anyone take it? There I was thinking this was a discussion, but hey, fairy nuff, my mistake.

I just can’t honestly be bothered to trawl posts adn media articles, just to prove a point and potentially get into a petty squabble. It serves no purpose.
I’m quite happy for you or anyone to disagree with my opinion, I’m not precious about it.

I don’t think you can afford to be precious about it when you can’t be bothered to back it up. (I didn’t disagree btw, just asked for a few examples to see if I’d been misreading the thread. Fairy nuff though, I’ll know not to question anything again, for fear of being treated so dismissively.)

I didn’t mean to be dismissive! It’s not even so much the rugby, the effort or the fact I’m not actually bothered about who’s been hyped. It’s being drawn into a protracted series of posts containing quotes and the inevitable “debate” about who said what and this and that which this site is fabled for and it’s made me a guarded cynic!

Kryton57 – Member

England don’t know how they want to play

How do you know this? Did Stuart give you a call and let you know?
Dont be stupid,of course not;I don’t know him.
Must be hard,deciding which part of their “multi faceted attack” to use of course.Again;England don’t know their best team,even if their version of spinal tap’s drummer(centre)had all the candidates fit.Nor do they know how they want to play the game,the war of attrition arm wrestle will beat OZ but not SA or NZ,however they arent good enough to match either of those teams in an expansive game.It is maybe down to having a lot of “good” backs,but as yet,no world class ones. (May making the Telegraph’s world xv notwithstanding)

Wrecker, I get a similar “hype” feeling about Ireland as stated above.

But, IMO, it’s mostly in the English media – presently because their the next england opponents – and a bit further back as they started this 6N as their closest rivals (by bookies odds) for the current tournament.

Look at the bollox written about Sexton after the last game. Most pundits putting him in team of the tourney so far, guscott and others drooling over his performance. It’s just lazy journalism, not actually related to the match, and easy sensationalism for hyping England’s next match.
Truth is that he was way off his game – multiple passes behind his backs, missed overlaps, overkooked attacking kicking, territory kicking going out on the full. He was in every English paper “team of the week” but wasn’t even the better fly half in his match.
He played like a man coming back after 3 months off. 😉

Ireland have been steady. A bit grinding. And done enough to be 2 from 2. no more

Duckman, like Wrecker I don’t have the stamina for an argument but:

England don’t know their best team… …Nor do they know how they want to play the game…

You don’t know that unless you have a qualified source to reveal, its conjecture, your opininion or both, so why not say “in my opinion” and stop stating it like its a fact?

Thats is all.