I would also be full of admiration for him taking such a massive decision.

Indeed. Let him do it – I would have the same mixed emotions, mrs_oab would be very worried for them, but great choice and brave decision.

Get him in there and get his mother down the careers office to speak to the lads in there too. I went to college after a poor attempt at school and completely wasted 2 years failing A levels. Joined the Navy and have been in for 10 years. You’ll find in the Armed Forces in general,that the only people that need to be academically gifted are the Officers, but then again you wont find an ounce of common sense in anyone of them.
Theres nothing for school leavers and even less for people with “Life Experience”. If theres a branch recruiting in the Army encourage him all the way coz theres nothing more trouble than a bored teen.

Get him to read “Forgotten Soldier” by Guy Sajer.

If he still want to join after that, then fine

It’s what is heart is set on, it is a valuable and demanding job. The financial rewards are meagre but the life experience is invaluable and it’s own reward. The only alternative advise of any merit is that which my dad gave my brother ,finish your education first the army will still be there when you graduate, in your case from what you say he has probably gone as far as will be useful to him with his education. I would support his decision .

from a purely practical point a couple of thousand redundancies in the armed forces announced today and thousands more over the next few years (according to BBC)
is the army the same entity a lot of the posters here are talking about

I’d reply great! But try and steer him towards a trade within/engineers etc rather than Infantry.

I also say why not? Discipline etc and it doesn’t mean it has to be for life does it.

it doesn’t mean it has to be for life does it.

not sure I’d choose that as a phrase with regard to joinging the army right now 🙁

As others have said , He is obviously a brave lad . My boy Is really into the idea of soldiers , though he is only 8 . If he came home and was insisting on a career in the forces I’d probably try and steer him into a role in The Royal Navy. Maybe this is a being Naive but It just seems a hell of a lot safer.
He will certainly get a trade , see the world and come out with qualifications and a lot of life experience. Knowing what he knows about current conflicts he must be really brave to want to join up as I’d imagine years ago a fare percentage joined thinking they would never see action.
Its a hard decision but you must be really proud of the boy for not wanting to sit on his farter like most other school leavers do.

Good on him, he sounds like a decent lad who has got his head screwed on.

Personally, i wouldn’t fancy joining an infantry regiment – a lot of the time, the young lads get treated like children, and as a result continue to behave like children. If i was to join the Army, i’d look into the Royal Engineers/REME or similar.

I left school with practically no qualifications. At 18, i joined the RAF. Some years later, i’m earning decent money, working with some good people and i’ve been to more countries than most people can name. Three square meals a day, job security(although i realise that’s a controversial subject at the minute), a good non-contributory pension… the list of benefits goes on. Best of all, i get free time off to go riding, and i get a metaphorical high-five on my annual appraisal for doing it! There are worse things to be doing.

It’ll certainly make a man of your boy, but i think a better quality of life can be found outside the infantry.

There are a lot of positives about joining the armed forces, but not only do you have to look at the number of redundancies being announced you also have to look at the number who put their name forward to go; more than they needed!

The ultimate pull-out from Afghanistan in a few years will have an effect on the numbers required, but will also have a negative on recruitment as an op tour is still a pull for many recruits/serving personnel.

The infantry, if that is his choice, are great ‘family’ regiments who really look after their own.

In this day and age i’d be steering him towards Royal Signals/REME/Royal Engineers as all have good trade potential in Comms/IT or electrical/engineering. Something he will need when eventually his Army career is up after 22yrs or similar making him 38-40 yrs old with still another 25-26years left of useful civvie working life to go.

I would be proud of my son if he decided to join up, after some careful thought processes first though as obviously not a light decision. Good on him.

good on him. talk to him about it. see what he has to say and point out the whole getting shot at/ killed angle. if he’s serious he’ll have given that some thought and will have an answer for you. if only more 15/16yr olds knew what they wanted to do.

Catflees and bigbloke spot on.

He’s obviously done his research, heard firsthand (yes he obviously looks upto his cousins but they’ll tell him the bloody boring bits etc etc).

At the end of the day, its his life and his decisions. Support him 😀

his cousins are infantry (lancashire fusiliers)

they disappeared in 1968

don’t let him join the TA if he is going regular there is a risk he could end up in Afganistan with the 20% of the training he needs

If he really he wants to do it then let him, for long term career prospects then a trade is always good, for moments of extreme adrenaline interspersed with long periods of boredom then infantry is for him

The reforms surely won’t affect someone at the bottom, though? They’re cheap and still needed in large numbers. I’d be more worried about mid-rank scalable employees (like my cousin that is a warehouse soldier, whatever the right name for that is).

He has recently been in Africa doing some charity work (I posted about it recently) which he funded almost totally himself and I think this has also opened his eyes to the wider world.

Impressive.

The reforms surely won’t affect someone at the bottom, though? They’re cheap and still needed in large numbers. I’d be more worried about mid-rank scalable employees

The Army is reducing in size and numbers. The personnel are reduced from all areas as, proportionally, you have les of everything – you take from the ‘side of the pyramid’, you don’t take bites out of it.

Get him to read “Forgotten Soldier” by Guy Sajer.

If he still want to join after that, then fine

You think a disputed autobiography about a French man serving as a conscript in the German Army fighting the Russians on the Eastern Front in WWII is relevant reading for a teenager in 2011? I’d put a few more books higher up the list.

when I was his age my mate, who was seriously on the road to nowhere got into Welbeck college, basically a 6th form for the army. He almost got kicked out a few times, but ended up going to sandhurst. Spent 10 years in the army and got up to captain. Got out and is doing very, very well for himself now.

The army pretty much turned his life around, and saved him from a life of crime and prison (his brother is currently in prison IIRC). Maybe see if your son can go down this route?

Thanks all. Most of the comments pretty much sum up how I feel about his choice. A long conversation on the phone with his mum appears to have brought her round somewhat too. Have just been reading up on the “insight” courses, basically a four day experience of army life, which I’m going to discuss with him, though he has been on a few week long camps with cadets and loved it.

Guy Sajer? If we were in that situation we’d ALL join the army as that was total war.

A unique event in history.

Get him to read “Forgotten Soldier” by Guy Sajer.

Unless we attack Russia and then retreat having laid waste to their country for a couple of years I guess he’ll be spared that. On the flip side, given the possibility it’s historical fiction, you could perhaps also suggest reading the Lord of the Rings and understanding how an orc foot soldier handled the assault on helms deep or something 😉

To the OP – Kudos to you for supporting him; being concerned is natural but it sounds like your son has plotted his route into the next part of his life so providing you’re sure that he’s sure, all good.

Think about how much honesty comes out of a politician’s mouth…now imagine that their decisions are made with your life in the balance at the expense of others.

My heart sinks every time I hear of a new person joining the army. So many people ready and willing to sacrifice everything for the gain of someone else who wouldn’t do the same.

I also disagree that going and shooting lots of people can really help a conflict. How frequently is the main “target” really hit, how many others get it in the meantime.

I don’t think it’s fair for people of such a young age to put themselves at the forefront of international politics when they are unlikely to have a full understanding of it. Especially as the initial reason for his military interest is inadequacy.

Sorry, but I feel that lives are unnecessarily lost both behind and in front of the barrel. There are many, many other ways to make a huge difference; humanitarian work, red cross, medicine san frontiers, emergency aid work etc.

Herman – you’re going to get a flaming for that but I do see where you’re coming from to an extent.

It is a fair point to mention that anyone joining the UK military these days should be expecting to be engaged in active conflict zones, and that some of those missions are pointless and counterproductive in terms of the UK’s security, let alone for the people who live there. On the other hand, intervention in Bosnia (once it came…), Kosovo and Sierra Leone has been mostly for the good.

But it is fair to consider that OP’s son will potentially be placing his life, and the lives of others, in jeopardy on occasion, and sometimes there will be no good reason for that.

Unfortunately, Herman, you also identify one of the big social problems at the moment: given that apprenticeships are thin on the ground, what is there for a willing, not academically-inclined 16 year old to do with her/himself productively? (Let alone for an unwilling 16 year old with a personality disorder, mental illness, substance abuse problem, criminal record…)

You think a disputed autobiography about a French man serving as a conscript in the German Army fighting the Russians on the Eastern Front in WWII is relevant reading for a teenager in 2011? I’d put a few more books higher up the list.

Yes, it is about a conflict nearly 70 years ago – but as to relevance today?

Well I cant answer that – but I’ll let the US military do so. Sajer’s book remains (certainly until recently) on the US Army Staff College reading list BECAUSE it portrays the raw experience of the infantry soldier.

Sajer’s “disputed autobiography” remains a rare thing (despite the number of books coming from recent Iraqi and Afghan operations) and therefore transcends it’s date and theatre – it is a foot soldier’s view point of the confusion, terror and horro of serving in the frontline.

Also, AFAIK, the disputes about authenticity have largely been addressed and the work accepted as authentic. Debate on authenticity

ETA – I didn’t suggest this as a spoiler. I’d say good luck, but choose branch carefully. Many of my school / teenage mate joined up, and most did well. One of my career choices was RAF Regiment. It came down to joining up or taking up an unexpected offer to do a geology degree.

Well I cant answer that – but I’ll let the US military do so. Sajer’s book remains (certainly until recently) on the US Army Staff College reading list BECAUSE it portrays the raw experience of the infantry soldier.

So what? The British Army is not the US Army and it never will be. Different ethos, thinking, people, attitude, skills. The Americans do lots of things that are unthinkable to the British military. A book once on a reading list for senior officers in a foreign military is no recommendation in itself for a 15 year old Brit.

I say good effort to the lad. I’m a bootneck (Royal Marine) so might be a little bias but the military isn’t all about poking people wearing bedsheets with something sharp. I’ve done a tour of Afghanistan but that has not been anywhere near the highlight of my career to date. I’ve had the opportunity to visit 8 different countries in 2 years, gain my B, C, C+E licences. Learn to ski. I’m also being booked onto a long language course learning (hopefully) Arabic.

I agree that an infanteer role isn’t that great as there aren’t a whole heap of transferable skills for Civ Div. A friend of mine is in the Engineers and is raking in a good wage after tax aswell so its not all doom and gloom. Good luck to the lad, whatever he chooses.

It is a fair point to mention that anyone joining the UK military these days should be expecting to be engaged in active conflict zones

Not after about 2015 they shouldn’t.

I think those making the ‘if you’ve not got any other option it is a good option’ noises are blissfully ignorant of the fact it is a reducing military in size (so harder to get in) and actually a volunteer force these days.

Not after about 2015 they shouldn’t.

If the MOD managers stop pissing money up the wall with BAE then fine.

Nimrods springs to mind for one.

You think a disputed autobiography about a French man serving as a conscript in the German Army fighting the Russians on the Eastern Front in WWII is relevant reading for a teenager in 2011? I’d put a few more books higher up the list

too true, what does an army recruit need to know about proper warfare these days, tis all about dominating the local populace with overwhelming force and technology!! how noble! 😀

tis all about dominating the local populace with overwhelming force and technology!! how noble!

Maybe we should just do what the IRA did and blow them all up. how noble! 😀

I did TA (OTC) at university then joined the regular Infantry. I remember being in exactly your boys shoes, being 15, having pals who were in or joining, caught the bug. I’m very glad I did it, grew up very fast, laughed my ass off every day.

Being a soldier is great, and it’s tempting to jump right in at the sharp end and be an infanteer. As above, I’d say get him into a technical corp, Royal Engineers, Signals, REME, Air Corps, Logistics. Will open up many more options for him when he leaves, he will likely get paid a bit more (that still the case?) and dare I say it might find he’s amongst a slightly higher calibre of soldier. I hate saying that last bit but I fear it’s probably true……my own regiment (Scottish Infantry) was a pretty harsh environment for a young lad, some “characters”. If he finds once he has his trade he wants to do some more proper soldiering he can go do selection for Airborne, Royal Marines or that mob in Hereford. Loads of my pals did.

I do sympathise a bit with some of the comments above about politicians not to be trusted, sending our guys into harms way. I have two sons, I’m not going to actively encourage them into the military partly for that reason, but if they decide on their own account I will give them the whole truth, warts and all.

I’m going out for dinner next month with 4 guys I was at Sandhurst with 20yrs ago, we still meet up regularly. Thats what the military is all about.

Not after about 2015 they shouldn’t.

Oh, yeah? Global stability, energy autarky and the end of cynical wars scheduled for 31 December 2014, are they? 😆

Good luck to him 🙂

Better than sitting at a desk all day wielding a pen and piling on the pounds 🙂

The good thing about bring British is we don’t whoop and shout about our boys in the military. Its just a quiet and very strong appreciation.

Just how I like it 🙂

There was a program called Our War on yesterday, perhaps get him to watch that as it shows both positive elements such comradery to the negative elements such as killing a child!

Ok for anyone against him joining:

– He could get a first job in Carphonewarehouse with aload of Graduates
– He could then buy a Fiat Punto on stupid insurance just after hes paid alot of money to learn then pass his test. Hes never got enough money and lives at home, bored.
– His mates take the piss and he loves to show off to them driving around at speed.
– He gets into recreational drugs and drinks alot on a regular basis
– He gets bored of CarphoneWarehouse but doesn’t have a clue what to do so goes on a plastering course.

At this point, all hes seen of the world is Magaluf. Hes also been in alot of fights and almost binned his car on numerous occassions.

He also crosses busy roads daily.

Hora is that the outline script for a Friday night comedy on More4?

Could be. Its depressing me just reading it though.

I’m nowhere near there but if my Son was in a similar situation I’d feel proud (and scared) in equal measure.

At this point, all hes seen of the world is Magaluf.

A teenager going out drinking with fellow squaddies in shitty bars in crappy port/barracks towns instead of going out drinking with fellow mobile phone salesmen in shitty bars in Magaluf, is it?

Hora, that’s a pretty pessimistic view of what he could do instead of the army. Sure it’s the reality for some but what’s to say that’s the only option?

Oh, and that can all happen after he’s done his bit with the army too!

There are a huge number of vocational careers for the “non-academic”. Listing them all would be a task I can’t fathom doing on a chat forum. I’m currently doing a degree in outdoor adventurous activities and many others who attended considered themselves “non-academic”. It turns out they were actually quite academic, they just hadn’t been taught in a style that suits their learning. He’s hardly exhausted his life experiences, don’t box him in to a cliche.

It saddens me that friendship and purpose are being advertised as more present in military experience than others. It’s great for those that have found it, but there’s more than one way to approach it.