Dunno, we aren’t 16 and according to the media its looking dire for the ‘growing army of young people who will never be in employment’ apparently.

I’d much rather drink in a port with a view to other locations one day than spend even a day in Magaluf looking for Wendy/future partner.

according to the media

Life doesn’t have to be Magaluf or the army, unless you want it to be. I feel sorry for the massive number of disenfranchised people out there.

I’d rather see the money that goes to the military end up in healthcare and education. I doubt we’d have such a problem with unemployable people eager to put all on the line for a sense of purpose. I’m trying hard not to get on my lefty (not the experimental Cannondale fork) soapbox 😀

Well my only experience of it is a few of the hard nuts/cool kids/retards/bullys from school signed up, then droped out as they couldn’t cope. And my neighbour is in the marrines, he said the training wasn’t too bad, hard work, but fun, it was the reppettative stuff like being made to iron the same shirt repeatedly that was the hard part of training!

I remember ironing and shining my 70’s-style aircadets uniform :oD

surely if it were proper 70s-style it would all have been Sta-Prest anyway? 😉

Maybe we should just do what the IRA did and blow them all up. how noble!

Not really wanting to get into it, but you make quite an common mistake of classing an interest as the same as support..

Good on him, mature lad by the sounds of it.

he said the training wasn’t too bad, hard work, but fun, it was the reppettative stuff like being made to iron the same shirt repeatedly that was the hard part of training!

Doing completely senseless things without question is a vital part of the training. And the more senseless the better it is for discipline.

tails – Member
There was a program called Our War on yesterday, perhaps get him to watch that as it shows both positive elements such comradery to the negative elements such as killing a child!

I watched Our War in its entirety.

In the interest of fairness, you should have pointed out that said child was killed by the ANP and not the British Army. Furthermore, the visibly disgusted British soldiers travelling behind said ANP in a convoy rendered first aid and called in a medevac helicopter immediately.

Herman Shake, small link for you

http://www.visualeconomics.com/how-countries-spend-their-money/

UK NHS spending as a percentage of GDP = 16.3%
UK Military spending as a percentage of GDP = 6.3%

Today’s NHS is the largest employer in the country and the fourth largest in the world (only the Chinese Army, Indian Railway and Wal-mart employ more people). A total of 1.3 million people.

Pumping more money into the NHS is not the answer, making it more efficient is. Too many chiefs and not enough indians is a huge problem in the NHS.

mu piffle. Not enough money is the issue. Anyway UK does not spend 16.3 % of GDP on the NHS its much less and much less than most countries

Those numbers for health spending are far different to most I have seen. Must be counted differently as it overstates almost every country

UK is around 10% of gdp – less than most other EU countries and far less than the US

The NHS spends less on management than most healthcare systems and is actually dogged by poor quality management and not enough management control. Its a very very efficient system

I’m a big enough man to admit when I’ve been proven incorrect, any chance you’ve got more accurate military GDP figures?

UK NHS spending as a percentage of GDP = 16.3%

Interesting comment that, as 16% of GDP is roughly what the US spends on healthcare.

UK is around 10% of gdp

Just under 10% of GDP is what the UK spends on total healthcare, that includes all private provisions. mu3266’s claim that NHS spending equals 16.3% of GDP is pure fantasy.

Can i have a precise as i seems to have drifted.

Toughy

It’s his decision mate – spent years being told what to and what not to do by my parents. Truth is I should have said to hell with it and done my own thing. It’s a massive risk but if I had to live my life over I’d simply become a support mechanism.

TS

Oh, yeah? Global stability, energy autarky and the end of cynical wars scheduled for 31 December 2014, are they?

Recovery, regeneration, further disinvestment in equipment procurement. Wait and see after Afghanistan.

Ignore the politics

Joining the army and following a training program best suited to his aptitude or mentality is a great life foundation

It may not suit him in the long term but what in life does?

The military gives him 3 or more years to descover what makes him tick – and is neither the autocratic brainwashing execise advocated by the Left nor the aggressive chauvinism and systemic control advocated by the Right

It’s learning to work with people, to make decisions and to test yourself both physically and mentally

The notion that the military is full of ‘baby killers’ and such pap is both simplistic and inanely stupid, lacking any real judgement or an understanding of the human condition and what REALLY makes the world turn beyond the jaundiced TV set and so-called media

There is a career choice suited to everyone in the military and I would personally invite him to look at it before making gross assumptions about it or himself

Ignore the politics

You can’t “ignore the politics” when you’re thinking about joining the institution that is responsible for implementing political policy at gunpoint!

Wunundred!

Special Military Edition.

lateo + 1

Yes you can ignore the politics

The military is a-political

His son should take the same view

Governments create wars, not armies.

The very reason why we don’t have a ‘Royal Army’ is exactly because an order Parliment, elected on the mandate of The People, instructs a General to commit a military action

Without an apolitical military, you run the risk of civil war and unsanctioned actions

I’ll leave you to drawn your own conclusions about the right to commit an act of military aggression and the mandate the World Politics or World Organisations should bring

I’ll leave you with one thought: the moment an Amy decides to do anything without an Order – to fight or to decline to fight – is a significantly more risky situation than one that does what it’s told.

Again, if this young chap accepts the potential of his role – to possibly and ultimately kill someone under instruction from his superiors, following accepted Laws of War, then he has my personal respect.

It saddens me to say that the world can sometimes be a very bad place and I’m grateful that some people want to protect me from it

Good on him. And good on you for supporting him in decision, despite your personal feelings. Agree with others on here though – try and get him to look at a trade; REME, signals, etc.

I did a POC for the RM when I was 17; they told me to finish my A-levels and apply straight after. I was offered a rugby contract soon after, and opted to choose that as my career path. I can honestly say that my only regret in life is not going in to the marines.

I’m ex REME I have left about 2 months ago,

I join when in was 18 and have spend 6years living the dream. All I would say is push for him to get a trade. You still need good quals to join the REME (c’S) after his barb test he will be given a list of jobs he is eligible to do.

He can do the barb test and there is no requirement to join the mob, just to see what he can do.

I would really push against joining the inf. But that’s just my opinion. Nothing against the inf. Just looks like proper hard work for sh1t promotion and on off tours

The military is a-political

The military is not party political. It is political. Politics isn’t just the 90 seconds of PMQ theatre you see on the evening news.

Sorry you’ve contradicted yourself – or atleast I don’t follow

“Its not party political.. but it is political”? < this is virtually a non sequitur (unless you actually mean that Politicians attempt to make the activities of the military a political ‘act’?)

The only political advocacy ever confirmed by the British military is a ban on communist activities – though this doesn’t necessarily relate to left wing or socialist serving members

There aught to be (in my personal opinion) a similar ban on far right tendencies – but any assertion that the Military have any political allegiance or tendency is wrong

They have never (in my recollection of 17 years service) ever made political statements or policies in any public domain.

I don’t understand your reference to PMQs – unless your insinuation that direct cross questioning of the Prime Minister under public scrutiny is somehow un-democratic or ‘un-political’ (< whatever that can mean?). Farce it may be, lacking in politics it is not.

………………

Apolitical – a·po·lit·i·cal ( p -l t -k l). adj. 1. Having no interest in or association with politics. 2. Having no political relevance or importance

Clearly the army fails on point 2 above as war is diplomacy by other means.

Does he really know what the army’s like these days and what kind of war he’ll be participating in?

kind of irrelevant. You don’t join up based on the people you are going to get to shoot at.

Good for him, cracking career I think. Any imaginable Civi job is available in the forces.

Apolitical – a·po·lit·i·cal ( p -l t -k l). adj. 1. Having no interest in or association with politics. 2. Having no political relevance or importance

Before you search for the definition of ‘apolitical’ it’s probably best to first understand what ‘political’ means.

All activities carried out by a government are ‘political’ ….. political – Of, relating to, or dealing with the structure or affairs of government, politics, or the state. Politics – The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.

The role of the Armed Forces is highly political. Every time British Forces engage in military operations they are carrying out the wishes/orders of their political masters (hopefully) ie, the government.

Very often British Armed Forces take sides in political disputes/civil wars overseas, the decision to do so is taken after political discussions and arguments, and their role is to implement those political decisions. When they haven’t been invited to so and they face opposition, British Armed Forces are told to “win” hearts and minds, ie, convince them – a highly political activity. British Armed Forces also engage in “nation building”, again, a highly political activity.

I could go on but I’m sure you get the picture, go back as far as Roman times to see role of politics on military campaigns, or look at ‘political maps’ in your atlas to see how politics affects geography. As konabunny says politics isn’t just party politics, and there’s a lot more to politics than PMQs.

Getting back to the OP, oneoneoneone is a good example of how the army can open up many opportunities which are often otherwise sadly lacking for young people. Mind you in oneoneoneone’s case he’s got his head screwed on right and he joined to learn a skill, rather than because he wanted to go gallivanting into other people’s countries to show them what’s what.

atleast I don’t follow

You are restricting “politics” to engaging in set pieces in the House of Commons, being interviewed by Paxo, making speeches to the WI and the like. Party politics is men and women wearing red, yellow or blue rosettes shouting at each other. The British military doesn’t endorse candidates.

But politics is much more than that. It’s about who gets what and how, who gets and keeps taxes and resources, who controls land, who gets to live and who gets to die. You can’t get more political then the invasion and occupation of a country, and the replacement of one government with another by means of force. That’s exactly what the military is engaged in; and where the military is sent, and why individual servicepeople end up where they do, is the both result and cause of massive international political processes.

Moreover the military itself pursues political agendas to protect its own interests: as an obvious example, just think how each wing of the armed forces positions itself and lobbies for funding and equipment during strategic reviews.

Any imaginable Civi job is available in the forces.

professional cyclist
Clown
candle maker
banana importer
I could go on.

@Kona – I agree with several things you say – not least the inference that people attempt to politicise the use of the military just as they do the NHS and education

I do not agree that the military is political in anyway shape or form though you are correct when parts of the military lobby government for funds. I fail to see how this is commonly accepted ‘politics’ though and you’re using semantics to widen / detract from the debate ( < though again, I agree with allot of what you said in a different context)

The military is apolitical and does not publically condone any political party. A person joining the military is responsible for exercising their duties with the same said decorum

Thus – and with the actual subject of this thread as the centre piece – it is factually wrong and socially dubious to argue that a young 16year old lad, joining the military is a defacto ‘baby killer’ working as a ‘puppet’ of some colonialist government.

The Government you vote for either creates or prevents wars. The military are simply a professional tool to act upon orders

from politicians to enable them to achieve political goals.

I finished your last sentence for you.
TBH you seem to be confusing politically active for a party and being in the political arena.

I dont disagree with allot of what has been said, I’m just trying to keep the subject of the thread in context.

The military has been used as a political pawn since Roman times. Today is no different (as a number of you have pointed out)

A lad joining the army needs to understand this – but is not responsible for the orders he obeys so long as they’re given in accordance with military convention and universally accepted laws of war

3 years traveling the world, learning a lot of new skills, and discipline, or 3 years wasted at some uni, and not haveing a job at the end of it or a pension.

Your sons joined the cadets,so knows what he is letting himself in for, best of luck to him,

actually after reading this i wouldnt want my son to join, ever
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14790271

professional cyclist
Clown
candle maker
banana importer
I could go on.

In fact, there are some tracksuit soldiers which pretty much are professional cyclists and there are far more clowns in the army than there are on the outside 😀

actually after reading this i wouldnt want my son to join, ever

You mean an open enquiry into a shameful affair that resulted in real changes (I don’t think enough people were punished but that is something else) in subsequent operations?

I hear some people have killed other people by driving their cars badly – best stay off the roads as well. 🙄

hmm because a car crash is just like…..

The inquiry said a “large number” of soldiers assaulted Mr Mousa and nine Iraqis detained with him, and noted that many others, including several officers, must have known what was happening.

The report said the violence could not be described as a “one-off” because there was evidence that 1QLR troops abused and mistreated Iraqi civilians on other occasions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8749250/Baha-Mousa-inquiry-innocent-father-died-due-to-Armys-failings.html

professional cyclist – they have effectively pro-winter sports so why not? And always bump into people at Swinley using physical training as an excuse to bunk off to do some riding.
Clown – drag acts were pretty popular in POW camps.
candle maker – I’m sure there are manufacturing jobs
banana importer – logistics