So, I’ve been in A & E all day. Without a priapism.

Here with my old mum. 95 a few days ago and, well, dementia is taking its toll as well as other stuff.

Looks like she is being discharged with a palliative care referral.

Anyway.

The NHS. Bless it’s heart and all those that work in it but it’s utterly buggered isn’t it? Weve been shown nothing but kindness but it’s obvious it’s in proper crisis.

From a comfortable first world problem perspective its easy to say, “its like a war zone”. It isn’t, but even close of course but it’s tempting to draw comparisons when you are actually here.

How are they ever going to sort this? It’s been utterly run into the ground as a political decision and it f****** disgusts me.

I hope they get to be at the sharp end of it one day.

Rant over and sorry to be so negative.

Drac and the others on here involved in the NHS out ever were. You did and do deserve a medal and a pay rise if you are still in this maelstrom.

Sorry to hear about your Mum, I hope things go okay, it’s  going to be a tough time.

In terms of fixing the NHS, I believe it does need to be treated in the same way as a war is. Remove it from politics, set up a cross party  Cabinet and agree not to campaign on NHS in the future. Allow the cross party Cabinet to set 5, 10 and 20 year plans that are agreed and fixed, not to be used as footballs at the next election. Fixing the NHS is a medium and long term project, it does not fit with the relatively short term election cycles. Remove it from politics altogether. This is the approach taken with war cabinets, time to do the same with NHS.

Sorry to hear the news of your mum declining dude.

Agreed, the people at the front line are trying their best, but something behind it all is just broken. 🙁

Sorry to hear about your mum.  Hope the palliative care kicks in fairly efficiently.

I retired from the NHS hospital side in March this year.  I said at my leaving “do” that I was sorry to leave colleagues to the shitshow but I honestly think I was having a negative influence on the team by then as I was just so pissed off with it all.

I like Ol’ blue eyes’ idea as long as social care is included with it, too

It is hopelessly broken and far too big and complex to fix really, but what large organisation isn’t? I have never worked anywhere with more than 1,000 employees that was well run regardless of how well funded/profitable it was and I don’t think it’s possible. It’s just that the stakes are so much higher and more noticeable with healthcare.

All the best for your mum Poopy, sad to read of her situation. Yep, it’s hard to see a way out of the mess the NHS is in.  I’ve actually had some positive interactions with it recently, but as you allude to, that’s down to the good but beleaguered people in it, not the neglected system itself.

How are they ever going to sort this? It’s been utterly run into the ground as a political decision and it f****** disgusts me.

Sums it up well and as usual it is the people that work in it and have the most need of it that suffer.

I hope your mum gets the care she needs.

Remove it from politics, set up a cross party  Cabinet and agree not to campaign on NHS in the future. Allow the cross party Cabinet to set 5, 10 and 20 year plans that are agreed and fixed, not to be used as footballs at the next election.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment about long term strategy not political football there’s actually way too much interwoven with it to treat the nhs as an entirely special case:

– social care
– justice/policing
– education (for staff training and societal health) as well as student loans for staff
– emmigration/ immigration (for staff at least)
– even sport and active travel
– tax and pension policy (private health, incentives to work as older consultants etc)
– housing for nurses etc

and then of course it’s success has a feedback loop into the ability to keep people working and thus paying tax etc.

In many ways NHS is just a metaphor for the whole of the public sector, it’s just the bit we are most likely to encounter and think, well the staff are trying their best so it can’t be their fault.

As with many things, the way to fix it was not allow it  to get it into this mess in the 1st place.

It indeed need a long term solution.  Part of that surely needs to be sorting out the underlying relatively poor health of the nation to start with – fewer people to actually fix in the 1st place.  And in turn that requires long term changes to education (there’s a real link between education level, income level, and health – they are inter-entwined). And between health and active transport.    As I type these things, I can’t help concluding we desperately need to move further away from the American model of society and it’s behaviour, and towards a European (either Mediterranean or better still Nordic) one. At a time where Britain is becoming ever more Americanised. Americanizationalized as Dubya would have said it.

I can hear a politician* speech…. “the best way to fix the NHS now is to privatise it”

*with shares in private healthcare

Just for another perspective I was in A&E a few weeks ago and received 5 star treatment. I had a wee tumble of the bike, ended up in A&E. Quickly attended to, x rayed and CT scanned. Injuries quickly diagnosed. Wounds treated expertly. Transferred to HD for a night, discharged in two days. Follow up appointments have happened already. Wounds re-dressed by local health centre. Couldn’t fault them, first class service.

I’m not suggesting everything is rosy, just stating there is a lot of good work going on which I think we should appreciate and not talk down too much.

I’m not suggesting everything is rosy, just stating there is a lot of good work going on which I think we should appreciate and not talk down too much.

Couldn’t agree more, the people are amazing but the system they work in is in a state. It’s only by the grace of the people I’ve met today and all the thousands I won’t, that it is just about holding together.

I’ll never, ever blame the institution or the people that work within it for the current situation. Ever. <Thumbs up>

Bless hope you mum hope the palliative gives her and you all some comfort.

Yes, it’s on its arse it’ll take a lot to fix but it can be. The staff have always and no doubt always will be excellent, they genuinely have compassion for patients.

Drac and the others on here involved in the NHS out ever were. You did and do deserve a medal and a pay rise if you are still in this maelstrom.

Thank you. After over 34 years I retired in May due to ill health, the stress levels didn’t help but ultimately it was the things I have dealt with that haunt that made me say enough. I have a great little life now, I am not working and probably don’t need to not that I think I could.

I have a great little life now, I am not working and probably don’t need to not that I think I could

I hope you enjoy the hell out of it mate and glad you turned things around.

I hope you enjoy the hell out of it mate and glad you turned things around.

Thank you. Not there yet but way better than I was.

Sorry to hear about your mum OP.

Will take a greater mind than mine to fix the NHS, but it needs a holistic approach to the whole system.

Hope your mums ok fella. I can empathise. I was where you are a couple of weeks ago. My dad, who has stage 4 cancer, broke his femur as the cancer has now degraded his bones to such a degree. We got an ambulance then he lay on a trolley in A&E for 14 hours before they could find him a bed.

It was like a circle of hell in there! Every available space had people on trolleys waiting for treatment. You read the horror stories in the papers or watched it on the news, but it’s genuinely shocking to see first hand what a total mess it’s in

During those long hours the staff were all absolutely amazing. Compassionate dedicated people trying their best to work in a system which is clearly absolutely ****ed!

It absolutely boils my piss to think of the billions those bastards handed out to their mates during covid. Just the final act in the 14 year, ideologically-fuelled wrecking spree that they’ve carried out on the NHS!

Oh, thanks for all the well wishes all. Forgot to say and it’s honestly appreciated.

We’ll be in the corridor tonight till there is a bed available at some point tomorrow but we managed to nab a spot away from the front door not so no freezing cold wind every time the door auto opens now.

The through put of people is relentless. Going to be a long night and morning but at least I have a charger this time.

So I can do the important stuff. You know, post on STW into the early hours.

I would love to go home in all honestly, feel like shat but mums so out of it these days I’d only lay there worrying so no point. If she woke up with me not here she wouldn’t know what the hell is happening. If there was a spare bed here I’d definitely try to get some sleep on it. Never been able to sleep on a chair which is internally annoying at times like this.

binners
Full Member
Hope your mums ok fella. I can empathise. I was where you are a couple of weeks ago. My dad, who has stage 4 cancer, broke his femur as the cancer has now degraded his bones to such a degree. We got an ambulance then he lay on a trolley in A&E for 14 hours before they could find him a bed.

Christ, that makes this little outing seem like a day in the park. I wish your dad all the best too mate.

All the best to your mum @Poopscoop . It’s tough to be an onlooker when a loved-one needs help in the current health service.

During those long hours the staff were all absolutely amazing. Compassionate dedicated people trying their best to work in a system which is clearly absolutely ****ed!

Too right. It’s heartbreaking to see this calibre of professionals trying their absolute hardest, often at great personal cost, when the system is falling apart around them.

I was here last year with my mum so I can empathise.

ou read the horror stories in the papers or watched it on the news, but it’s genuinely shocking to see first hand what a total mess it’s in

During those long hours the staff were all absolutely amazing. Compassionate dedicated people trying their best to work in a system which is clearly absolutely ****ed!

This.

The NHS is woefully underfunded, woefully understaffed (“send them back where they came from”) and woefully mismanaged. They send me a letter to tell me they’re going to send me a letter, like WTF? Aside from anything else, my email address is on file. Meanwhile, I’m on a waiting list to be put onto a waiting list so that government can boast about how they’ve reduced waiting lists.

… but it needs a holistic approach to the whole system.

A lot of my work is about health system improvement. There’s an incredible focus on ambulance and A&E, when that often is just a symptom of the problems further downstream. There are endless projects aimed at solving little blockages in specific locations, because the people immersed in the business see those issues and the costs and timescales are relatively minor. They don’t often sustain long-term improvements of course. It is much harder to step back and make wholesale system change – and yes, modern election cycles really stuff that up.

A couple of my favourite quotes from a paper from the Institute for Healthcare Improvement (I actually asked a colleague to get the second one tatooed on her arm so she can show it to people when they suggest stupid project ideas):

“The key to execution is to plan and deploy a hospital-wide patient flow strategy. No single initiative or set of unaligned projects is enough to produce system-level results.”

“If each part of a system, considered separately, is made to operate as efficiently as possible, the performance of the system as a whole will be suboptimized.”

Cougar2
Free Member
I was here last year with my mum so I can empathise.

I don’t think you posted a great deal at the time but I’ve seen enough to know you’ve officially had a bit of a rough time mate. I hope you are heading into next year in a slightly better place than you were.

Sorry, deliberately being cautious with my words as I don’t want to put my foot in my mouth. I don’t know anything even close to detail on what you and yours have been through.

They send me a letter to tell me they’re going to send me a letter, like WTF?

I spent a bit of time looking at this when I was visiting my Dad. First letter said you’re booked for surgery next Wednesday… no clue as to what for, though (could have been for a few things). I decided that given there’s no mention of fasting it’s probably something minor with a local anaesthetic. Phone number provided rings out, so that’s hopeless.

Next day a letter saying you’re booked for an appointment on Tuesday to prepare for surgery on Wednesday – no mention of what for still. Hmmm, sounds like bowel prep appointment perhaps? But, a nurse will call on Monday to discuss the appointment on Tuesday. Great, so just five more days of waiting to find out. And, given he’s arranged to go away at the end of next week… will that still be possible? No clues.

Aside from anything else, my email address is on file.

If it’s anything like the shit show here, the excuses are:

– DOS-based system that was installed in 1992 doesn’t have the capacity to include email addresses.

– Health information (and financial information) is protected by privacy law to a level such that they’re “not allowed” to send to an email address outside their jurisdiction because someone else might access it which would be their responsibility. Pfffft. Imagine if banks took that attitude.

It’s heart breaking, I’ve been there when my nan died. She was discharged from hospital into a half way house care home and they just withdrew treatment.

She was dying anyway, but rather than give her a big shot of morphine to end it, she was basically starved to death over a few days. I still have nightmares about it.

If you’ve ever heard the phrase ‘death rattle’, its a real thing when your lungs are full of mucous and you’re basicaly drowning. It’s **** in-humane.

I held her hand though, the world is a very cruel place. I’m crying just typing this.

I hate people.

^^ Awful, truly awful and I’ve heard of people having similar experiences. I’m genuinely sorry if I’ve reopened this pain for you my friend.

I’ll not be going the way of dementia if that’s in my future. I hope to make a decision whilst I can to go out by a way of my choosing. I have enough meds to do it on any given month that’s for sure. It’s not a good find to be old and ill. If there ever was a good time of course.

A good friend with MS has already told her family she is going to be doing similar. She’s seen her uncles journey with the disease at first hand. I totally get it, she shouldn’t have to do it that way, hopefully laws change and she doesn’t but if it’s the only choice she has…

I’m sorry for over-sharing…  I’ve de-railed the thread a bit, it was actually quite cathartic to type that out, my apologies.

No need to apologise at all. I agree, it’s inhumane and unnecessary.

Two of my grandparents went a similar way, and one had been asking for them to end her life for quite some time. I do hope it’s not something people will need to go through in the future.

mattyfez
Full Member
I’m sorry for over-sharing… I’ve de-railed the thread a bit, it was actually quite cathartic to type that out, my apologies.

You’ve detailed nothing buddy, you are completely on topic.

No apology needed and I certainly won’t accept it for that reason. This thread was posted to help me tonight, selfishly, your and other posters replies have done that. If posting helped you in the slightest it’s kamas way of saying thanks for your support too.

You and others might not have realised it was support but it was and I thank you and everyone else too.

You post what you like my friend.

I don’t think you posted a great deal at the time but I’ve seen enough to know you’ve officially had a bit of a rough time mate. I hope you are heading into next year in a slightly better place than you were.

Sorry, deliberately being cautious with my words as I don’t want to put my foot in my mouth. I don’t know anything even close to detail on what you and yours have been through.

Appreciated, thank you. I think at this point any mouth/feet interface concerns have passed, but it’s probably fair to say that I’ve not had a great 18 months or so.

The catastrophic implosion of my mental health almost certainly spilled over onto the forum whilst I was raging at the world and for that I can only apologise. I’m doing the best I can with what I have, but it’s left me with no small degree of intolerance for people being dicks. Ironic I know, I’m probably viewed by some as an argumentative arsehole and that’s not a wildly unfair assessment, but what gets posted is a fraction of what ends up on the cutting room floor.

I have a lot to be thankful for, but sometimes things are just shit. I need to try to keep a grasp on the former.

Again, thank you. You’re going on Santa’s ‘nice’ list.

I’ve been there when my nan died.

I was having this conversation earlier today with a couple of old friends, only within the context of pets. It gets to a point where you think “who are we doing this for, exactly?” We treat animals better than family.

I’m doing the best I can with what I have

That is all that’s available to us all, you seem to be doing a good job so far.

I had my cytoscopy yesterday, seems that there may be some more scanning and flow tests before Christmas (woot). The nurse was kind and referrred to me as a younger man (62 next week) so there is that though!

We lost a grandparent the other week and in fairness, the staff on the ward were fantastic, couldn’t have been more helpful, friendly and accommodating. There was a little family room with teas, coffees and biscuits etc which we brought some stuff in to top back up.

I’m do very sorry to read this poopscoop.

This year I’ve had to make use of the NHS and everyone who’s dealt with me has been so professional. But at no point did I see the specialist that was listed on all correspondence. The staff I see now haven’t even had any lunch during my appointments ( they don’t have time).
But an observation- some members of the public don’t seem to help matters. Our ambulances seem to be called out too many times for minor reasons, some people are in A&E for silly minor ailments, also I’ve witnessed people walking in from the street into outpatients wanting to be patched up (one man just wanted a plaster over a cut), the a stressed OT (who was running behind with her patient list) obliged with a smile.

i can’t thank everyone enough for the hard (often thank less) work they do while working in our NHS.

“The key to execution is to plan and deploy a hospital-wide patient flow strategy. No single initiative or set of unaligned projects is enough to produce system-level results.”

“If each part of a system, considered separately, is made to operate as efficiently as possible, the performance of the system as a whole will be suboptimized.”

There is something to be learned from manufacturing operations here: in any flow-based system there is no point optimising anything that’s not a bottleneck. Indeed, optimising a non-bottleneck part of the process can make things worse if that part comes before a bottleneck – it just adds more pressure to the bottleneck. It is very hard to understand this from the inside though – each department wants to be as good as it can, and sometimes that’s actively harmful to the overall system efficiency.

After sixteen years in the NHS, I’m leaving a week on Friday.

I do feel like I’m abandoning the people I work with and the wards and departments I support, but for the sake of my mental health its got to be done.

The camels back moment has long since passed for me, my only hope is that with some grown ups in the room (very optimistic I grant) the NHS will receive the support and funding to slowly turn it around.

Need to start with social care and work back. IMHO

Very sorry to read about the trauma everyone’s gone through on this thread. All the best for your mum Poopscoop.

After sixteen years in the NHS, I’m leaving a week on Friday.

@jwt, thank you.

Mrs a11y’s about 25 years in frontline A&E and the prospect of working another 15 years or so fills her with dread. Current focus is on finding an ‘out’ from it as it’s implausible to continue doing what she’s doing up to retirement age. She’s voiced similar feelings that it feels a bit like she’d be abandoning colleagues etc but it’s really not something she (or you @jwt) should feel,ever. You’ve given your all, be proud of that.

Just a quick update. Mum never did make it to a ward but she’s on way home now. I came home a couple of hours back to get a bit of sleep and just had a call to say an ambulance is bringing her back.

I suspect this might become a regular new routine in all likelihood but as if now, this little adventure is over.