So I bought a Defender PT3

No offence Wool, but you’ve either got more money than sense or you deserve to loose it if you give up that easily.
Like I say I’m a mild mannered man who see’s the best in people but considering there is £12.5k at stake I’d be there with a Stihl or a court order.

If you paid by credit or debit card,a chargeback does seem to be a valid option for you. Have you tried this yet?

Edit: just read the latest post above, go and have a word with the bank and see what they say,but I also thought that a bank transfer was non reversible except under very specific circumstances

Transfer or debit card, I see no differnce and would be putting pressure on the bank.

chargeback?? we did a bank transfer to pay, thought it was lost??

Sorry, but think you are correct. Chargeback only applies to certain cards.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback

Theres a big difference between a bank transfer and a card payment. Card payments typically allow you some redress if the goods purchased are not as described. Bank transfers typically do not.

Transfer or debit card, I see no differnce and would be putting pressure on the bank.

Youd most likely be wasting your (and the banks) time

Fraud ? You gave him 12.5k in return for a defender. You got junk and have no defender.

Did you pay a deposit on a card? If so you may still have an option via the card.

Youd most likely be wasting your (and the banks) time

Why?
Chargeback is covered by law on a credit card but not on a debit card. Chargeback on a debit card is covered by goodwill, as, I suspect, would a transfer (the principle is the same).
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback

I’d be camping in his workshop until I got the money or the vehicle back I think. STW real life pitchfork and torches event, anyone?

its not done under “goodwiLL” ,its part of the card scheme providers (visa,mastercard, amex etc, essentially not the bank themselves)t&cs that all banks and merchants operating under the scheme have agreed to work under.

there is no such t&c’s covering “bank transfers” such as those made under faster payments.

think about it…. youd be getting fraud left right and centre if a bank transfer could just be reversed after the event, a bit like the various western union money transfer scams.

its not done under “goodwiLL” ,its part of the card scheme providers t&cs that all banks and merchants operating under the scheme have agreed to work under.

there is no such t&c’s covering “bank transfers” such as those made under faster payments.

think about it…. youd be getting fraud left right and centre if a bank transfer could just be reversed after the event, a bit like the various western union money transfer scams.
Fair enough, the experts at Money Saving Experts got it wrong. Their bad!
Have you told them?

Wool, for **** sake get a grip mate. You either aren’t telling us the whole story or you’re rolling over and taking this way too easily.
If you’re not confident in dealing with him yourself ask for help. I for one would be quite happy to come along with you to give some moral and if neede physical support in getting something back from him.
I’m not being an Internet braggart suggesting strong arm tactics, just thinking you don’t seem to be able to get results and maybe someone impartial may be able to help.
I do however have access to an impressive array of tools that could be used to gain entry to anything up to and including police cells (‘in theory’) if the worst came to the worst……

nothing I said contradicts that moneysaving expert article, I agree with them

bank transfers are totally different to payments made by card.

I am neither an internet braggart, but am really frustrated at this and will help if I can, in whatever way.

bank transfers are totally different to payments made by card.

Debit or credit cards?
But yes, you’re right on all counts and it’s not worth talking to the bank.

Payment was made with a bank transfer only…..

credit card payments are different to debit card payments which are different to bank transfers under bacs/chaps/faster payments.

they are 3 different mechanisms(and the various bank transfer types are each different again) with different rules and regulations, some of the rules are also enforced by the law of the land (section 75 for credit cards), some are just t&c’s of the contract that participants signed up to when they agreed to take on one of the roles of either bank,merchant or consumer.

but essentially under the faster payments rules once a payment has cleared into the “target” account, it cannot be reversed. whereas the same is not tru of debit card payments made under the visa debit scheme.

Right the way I see it is this

You paid for the 110 the money cleared title passed to you

It’s yours as he hasn’t paid you back

Go get it and all the bits, if he refuses get the bailiffs to recover it

Wool, I hope you are still getting some professional advice?

Can I just caution against the go all “bombers” on him approach.

If you threaten or commit assault, theft or criminal damage the Police will not give a monkey’s what money he owes they are more likely to simply arrest and possibly charge you for the relevant criminal offences and tell you to follow proper civil process for the debt. You will potentially get a criminal record too if you over step the mark to the extent some posters are suggested.

“Can I just caution against the go all “bombers” on him approach” Agree bombers would only cause more problems and I have enough of those……

He either refunds you or returns the defender as it is not his even if the Name on the V5 does not necessarily mean that person is the owner of the vehicle.

When you have the defender back take it to small claims to get it rectified or a refund once in court, show the paper trail with the bounced cheque.
If the defender is now in bits and it wasn’t when you took it back then claim for that as well.

If you don’t get any joy at least you have a vehicle that’s still got value all be it not what you’ve paid for it.

Wool’s Defender is being broken into bits and will probably be sold/disappear as such. The meccano-ness of Defenders is also their downfall at times.
I doubt Mr defender seller is stripping it to put a new chassis under it out of an act of doing right by Mr Wool

Dont the BBC love this sort of thing with that cheeky chappie Dominic..

Company trading fraudulently
Company keeps liquidating and re forming as something else
Unayed bills / stolen stuff…

Worth a punt perhaps…

Whatever the state the defender is in get it off him *now*.

He doesn’t own it you do regardless of who has the paperwork

The longer he has possession of it the more chance he’ll sell it on either whole or in bits to cover his next bill.

Turn up with a truck and take possession. Take all the paperwork and if he calls the police prove it’s yours until he issues a refund that clears into your account.

It’s an awful position for you to be in but you need to be pro-active now with regards to limiting your losses.

I am stunned that a bloke can rip off a punter for 12k and still be in plain site in 2016.

Just to get a point of reference, has the OP been to the police?

I said on page 3 of this thread that you were mad for not banging his door down.

The fact you still or on here, saying ‘oh, well, that’s that gone then’ is the reason he is still trading and no doubt ripping off other punters.

What would it take to get some action from you?

RNP offered to help rebuild your car, for no other reward than to be a nice guy; what do you need to motivate you?

Hmmm..

I’m now resigned to the fact that the OP doesn’t want a resolution and is happy to loose £12.5k.

I find that odd.

BOL.

I think its sad that the victim now seems to be on the, rather unfair, end of further victimisation on here.

Its clearly a troubling time and its not always possible during these to see the wood for the trees.

OP – Its clearly a terrible situation. Have you spoken with CAB? Whilst there is a little back and forth – cancelled cheques, address changes etc – its imperative you get your timeline of events detailed so that you have an evidence base to show if there isn’t an amiable outcome (this looks unlikely).

The vehicle is still yours. If its in pieces now then is this not a case for the police?

I think its sad that the victim now seems to be on the…end of further victimisation

Don’t be so wet.

Victim is a state of mind; if you keep rolling over you will remain a ‘victim’. Something needs to change in the OP’s approach or he will continue to be shat on by this chancer who probably can’t believe his luck. Cash and the car back? Amazing!

I asked what would it take for Wool to get up from the floor and take some positive action.

Unless (and this is quite likely) there is some crucial fact that is not evident, I believe a good firm kick up the arse is long overdue.

I’ve watched this thread from Part 1 through to this desperate conclusion.

There isn’t that much that is too complex on a Defender to fix. Even a front chassis member. I’m up for a get it back and fix it up session with Rusty.

The business has a website. Some Google reviews may help deter his next unwary ‘customer’.

I think its sad that the victim now seems to be on the, rather unfair, end of further victimisation on here

We are basically watching someone being swindled out of £12.5k, and seemingly doing nothing to stop it. I think this is where the frustration is. No-one is picking on or victimising the OP, more trying to jump start them into some kind of action.

This is mental.

Forget about shaming him so others wont be caught out, he couldn’t give a toss. It won’t make a jot of difference.
A local company here, not garage related, currently has 42(!!!) Trading standards complaints for contracts totalling over £100,000.

Still trading, charming folk who haven’t trawled the internet for his name into handing over cash and getting ripped off.
He’s in the same business as me so I see his work regularly as I’m called to fix it. It’s highly dangerous, how he can sleep at night I have no idea. It utterly baffles me how nobody has gone down the bombers route on him, it’s really the only language worth speaking in these cases. Some folk are just wired wrong.

Wool, quite simply your car has been stolen and you know who has stolen it – report it to the police and your insurance company. The latter will want to get it back.

OP needs to watch “Falling Down” with Michael Douglas and grow a pair.

Can’t believe anyone could take this so meekly.

Come on Wool DO SOMETHING!

Dear all thanks for your support and offers of help with my situation on this but the phone calls in the middle of the night and emails to Mr Stott is not helping me or him sort this rather large problem out, if you could please stop it I would be grateful. Looking like it might be sorted will keep you posted.

Looking like it might be sorted will keep you posted.

….as a result of the aforementioned behaviour, perhaps?

the phone calls in the middle of the night and emails to Mr Stott

Someones taking things a bit too far! 😯

Looking like it might be sorted will keep you posted

That would be great news.

Maybe the lovely Mr Stott is feeling a bit uncomfortable with the extra attention?

WOW this place certainly looks after it’s own