[Closed] Smoking Childcare - is it wrong?

Pay a professional

Is sh putting your daughter at any significant risk? She is not sitting in a room with her smoking like a chimney is she?

I suggest you chill out or you will need some other childcare. Sounds like the MIL is actually making a real effort not to smoke in front of the kid.

Have a chat with her. The worst that can happen is you are divorced, disowned and killed. Not too bad!

Give over!

When I was a kid everyone smoked. Everyone. My mum and dad, the milkman, the bloke in the shop, the bus driver, the passengers, the lollipop man, the teachers at school.

I work with nurses who remember having to put out their cigarettes before attending to patients ...on the coronary care ward.....

Grannie has a fag. Get over yourself..

Hamlet miniatures you say? 😆

I'd report her for smoking shit cigars myself. If she's going to pass on secondary cancer which you obviously believe, then she might as well do it with a decent Cuban jobbie. 😉

and we had leaded paint and proper leaded petrol, and fireworks, and we put asbestos on bonfires.

You need to chill out a bit fella, life's an adventure...as long as you're allowed out...

I tend to agree with the above however my wife didn't like my mum doing something similar so I asked her nicely (she does only babysit one morning a week though). She seemed to understand why I asked her to stop.

Although im an ex-smoker, when my son was born 4 years ago, I stopped smoking in the house, always went outside for a fag and he's never seen me smoking.
I dont want him to breathe my smoke and I dont want him to see me smoking and think its acceptable later in life.
It really annoys me when i see these young mums swanning about fag in hand whilst pushing the baby in the pram. Clearly they dont GAS

i like all the "in my day" posters who are fooling themselves they arent "in my day" posters.

Its not that it may smell its teh fact your child will very quickly get used to the smell of cigarettes and may even become accustomed to nicotine. Ive never touched a fag in my life and never will but i can happily stand near smokers (as long as its not cigars) because ive always socialised with older people and generally they smoke.

I know people whoes family smoke and guess what? They smoke. They do drugs. They drink excessively and their life is going nowhere. People i know whoes families dont smoke are, in my experience, far more successful.

If it was my child i wouldnt let a smoker near them. Buy her some nicotine gum....

Maybe I need a beer - my wife says I need to chill out too.

Shame the fridge is empty.

I'm sure our Health visitor stated that due to smoke etc clinging to clothes and hair etc they reccomended leaving 45 minutes between having a fag and handling a baby!!!

Tricky one. I asked my mum to only smoke outside and give it 10 minutes before she picks my son up when she visits. You can always smell the smoke on smokers breath right after they have had 1.

she seems to be doing her best only you can decide if this is enough. I would tut and let it go personally. Your wife MUST raise the issue with her mum not you. What does she think? Probably matters a bit more than internet forum users.

The health aspect isn't the issue.

It is that someone the child loves and admires smokes and learns from that. It is important the sprog doesn't see Gran smoke. Beyond that - not a biggie.

interesting point Stoatsbrother.

The research says its bad to smoke and then go near kids as its carried on the clothes and breath.

Personally my son won't go near anyone who smokes because its a disgusting habit.

im the same i dont want my little one to see my misses smoke to the point she has now packed up and only smokes when out drinking(i dont get it but meh) but as said it seems she is trying but tbf u can only go so far when there putting herself out for u

its a grey area really only you no whats best for your baby.

cheers guys

Some interesting factoids:

Smoking around a baby is known to significantly increase the risk of cot death and is thought to be the main risk factor.

A smoker continues to breathe out carbon monoxide and other byproducts for two hours after a single cigarette.

A single cigar in an unventilated room produces the same toxins as around 40 cigarettes.

also increases your childs chance of asthma as well as making it more likely for your shild to smoke. I'd either lay down the law or pay a nursery/childminder

FFS - she is not smoking in front of the kid. It would be different if she was.

wrong tandem, smoke on clothes etc also affects the child

she might as well do it with a decent Cuban jobbie

Wouldn't that fall apart in your hands and be really hard to light? It'd probably smell a lot worse too.

should I say something?

No, your wife should.

It is that someone the child loves and admires smokes and learns from that. It is important the sprog doesn't see Gran smoke.

TJ and his ideas, what a shocker!

Wouldn't that fall apart in your hands and be really hard to light? It'd probably smell a lot worse too.

😆

No, that would be a Scawtish jobbie

[i]The health aspect isn't the issue.[/i]

Presumably, though, that's only true if you've decided to ignore a large quantity of medical evidence?

So let me get this right - your MIL is good enough to look after [b]your[/b] child while you go to work and in your opinion has the blatant audacity to have a fag before you arrive in [b]her house[/b] so as not to smoke in front of your child and you are complaining! I'm amazed that your missus (oddly not mentioned in any of this) managed to survive being brought up by such an uncaring Mother and isn't a nicotine ridden wreck.

As you hate and find smokers so disgusting, you have no option but to find, and presumably pay, for someone else to look after your daughter.

#
doctornickriviera - Member

wrong tandem, smoke on clothes etc also affects the child

How significant in reality? Clearly smoking in front a a child so its passive smoking is not good but really how significant is this?

How significant in reality?

Daily Mail (I know but it's late and I can't be arsed googling pubmed etc):

"Up to 90 per cent of the nicotine from cigarette smoke can stick to walls, clothes, hair and skin, Georg Matt, a professor at San Diego State University, found.

His early research suggests the chemicals from this 'third hand smoke' can be swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin of non-smokers, putting babies at particular risk.
The youngsters absorbed the harmful chemicals simply from touching furniture in a smoker's house, or hugging their mothers after they had a cigarette."

-- http://www.****/health/article-399589/Even-smoking-outside-harm-baby.html

As most of the others have said if you don't like it then pay for some childcare yourself.

The funny thing is though that most childcare is provided by young ladies who actually smoke quite a lot. They will not smoke in front of your children, but after their breaks they will come back in to the nursery or whatever place you leave your child reeking of fags, which is bad news according to some.

As for Granny smoking encouraging the little one to smoke. Well, unless you come from a really deprived area where smoking is the norm then I can't see this happening. There is so much anti-smoking rhetoric taught to children nowadays I can't see it happening.

Graham - but how significant? I am sure it is possible to detect but is it really going to make any difference?

Nothing in that article says how high the levels were and what increase in risk this is.

compare it to the risks of artificial fragrance in air fresheners - known to be toxic. Or Carbon monoxide from car exhausts?

I'd buy my mum fags if she would childmind to save me the 620 a month I currently pay

I agree with the fact that second hand smoke is bad and as an ex-smoker I apologise to those who have had to breathe in my smoke 😳

However, the nicotine on the walls and skin makes me wonder about what these babies are doing in these smokers' homes? I know that when babies reach a certain age they stick things in their mouths, but they do not go around the place licking the paint and people's skin! Plus, nicotine isn't the baddie when it comes to health problems although it certainly does not help with the addictive properties of smoking.

LETS BAN EVERYTHING!!!!!! NOW!!!!!

There we go. sorted! Yawn

Can't stand the stink of smoke myself - it killed both my parents painfully.

Take a look at your wife. Is she ok? Your mil raised her, and no doubt will do an equally good job of looking after her grandchild.

Settle down. 🙂

Give over!

That's what my mum would say! 😀 (Before giving me a clip round the ear)

In my vernacular, it would be 'be'ave yerself!'

Some interesting factoids:

A smoker continues to breathe out carbon monoxide and other byproducts for two hours after a single cigarette.

A single cigar in an unventilated room produces the same toxins as around 40 cigarettes.

Some other interesting factoids:

You car is killing the planet.

Your bike is made using sweated labour, at least to extract the raw materials.

The environmental effect of that material extraction is killing the planet.

Etc. I think you get the picture.

Fair comments, speshly the bit about cot death and that. People shouldn't smoke around babies and young children. Which apparently isn't the case here anyway.

If you're that concerned, don't let your child stay with her nan, thus depriving them both of that relationship.

Or get yer kid one of these:

[img] [/img]

And paint over the visor so they can't see nanny being evil.

The funny thing is though that most childcare is provided by young ladies who actually smoke quite a lot. They will not smoke in front of your children, but after their breaks they will come back in to the nursery or whatever place you leave your child reeking of fags,

Grandmother is probably thinking 'it was normal doing this round the daughter (your SO) when she was growing up' and 'I'm doing them a favour anyway'.

Plus when you are not there. Are you sure she doesnt light up with your own daughter in the house? no one would know and after all its her house etc.

Then theres the fact that your impressionable daughter is growing up/seeing 'Nan lighting up.

Drop her off at a Nursery. They don't passive smoke around children there.

my mother told my gran (dads mother) that if she didn't stop smoking she would never see me again (first grandchild) she stopped then and there and now says it was the best thing that ever happened. this all happened wehen i was about 3 weeks old (one week out of hospital)

try it 😈

My sister in law used to fetch her Dads Cigs and light them in his mouth for him.
Fast forward 20yrs. He now lays in a bed all day every day.

mastiles_fanylion - Member

The funny thing is though that most childcare is provided by young ladies who actually smoke quite a lot. They will not smoke in front of your children, but after their breaks they will come back in to the nursery or whatever place you leave your child reeking of fags,

Is this a fact? Or something you have just assumed out of thin (nicotine filled) air?

Just something I have seen a few times and linking it in with what was said higher up the thread about the toxins lingering on people's skin and clothes, which a child can then breathe in.

My sister in law used to fetch her Dads Cigs and light them in his mouth for him.
Fast forward 20yrs. He now lays in a bed all day every day.

So your sis-in-law's Father was a lazy bugger 20 years ago and still is by the sounds of it - or is there a relevant point to your riveting family anecdote?

Thank you for saying its riveting. I was thinking of serialising and making into a play for you 8)

Feel free but only if it includes your sis-in-law and bed scenes not involving parents 😉

Just something I have seen a few times and linking it in with what was said higher up the thread about the toxins lingering on people's skin and clothes, which a child can then breathe in.

As I said previously, we asked my mum not to smoke (she would have one before coming in to our house) and it was immediately apparent she had been smoking (which is why we asked her to stop.

Feel free but only if it includes your sis-in-law and bed scenes

Thats the 3-part DVD boxset.

However, the nicotine on the walls and skin makes me wonder about what these babies are doing in these smokers' homes? I know that when babies reach a certain age they stick things in their mouths, but they do not go around the place licking the paint and people's skin!

Our 5 month old will bite your nose given half a chance (fortunately no teeth yet). And likes a good chew on an arm if she gets bored. Other people we know with babies have similar experiences.

Graham - but how significant? I am sure it is possible to detect but is it really going to make any difference?
Nothing in that article says how high the levels were and what increase in risk this is.

Agreed. I did say it was a Daily Mail article so it was fairly fact-lite.

I'd love to spend an hour dredging through pubmed papers to find some more definitive answers but sadly I've got pesky work to do. Feel free though 🙂 A quick search on "third hand smoke" turns up some promising ones:

"Given the rapid sorption and persistence of high levels of nicotine on indoor surfaces-including clothing and human skin-this recently identified process represents an unappreciated health hazard through dermal exposure, dust inhalation, and ingestion."
-- Formation of carcinogens indoors by surface-mediated reactions of nicotine with nitrous acid, leading to potential thirdhand smoke hazards. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20142504

"There is no safe level of exposure to tobacco smoke. Thirdhand smoke is residual tobacco smoke contamination that remains after the cigarette is extinguished. Children are uniquely susceptible to thirdhand smoke exposure."
-- Beliefs about the health effects of "thirdhand" smoke and home smoking bans. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19117850

Smoking shows up as a possible contributing factor in 9 out of 10 case of SIDS (aka cot death).
My dad smokes cigars and isn't allowed near our five month old during or for about an hour after one. Some will say this is overkill. It probably is. But one of the mums in the Mrs baby group woke up to a dead six month old and that really shook us, so we'd rather be overly cautious!

Obviously with older children, only exposed to second or third hand smoke, the immediate health risks are far far less catastrophic. But I'd still prefer to minimise the unnecessary toxins that my children are exposed to, even if it means offending relatives.

Some other interesting factoids:
You car is killing the planet.
Your bike is made using sweated labour, at least to extract the raw materials.
The environmental effect of that material extraction is killing the planet.
Etc. I think you get the picture.

Yep, but simply dismissing such factoids as typical middle class handwringing doesn't make them any less true. 🙂

Controversial point: the rate of SIDS in the population is dropping, except in the lower income brackets. One possible theory is that this group are more likely to dismiss medical advice than the handwringing middle classes.

But one of the mums in the Mrs baby group woke up to a dead six month old and that really shook us, so we'd rather be overly cautious!

m_f: yep, I feel queasy at the thought of it. I can't really imagine much worse. It must be absolutely devastating.

^^^^

Agreed. That must be a truly horrible experience to have to go through.

Never heard of "third hand smoke" before. You learn something new everyday, don't you?

Yes - we all have the capability to cope with loss (I lost my father last year so he never got to see our girls) but to lose a child like that must completely hardwire you mentally and change how you look at the rest of your life.

Graham - so you are basing your position on "no such thing as a safe level" fair enough. I am wondering if there really is a significant increased risk from occasional third hand smoke. If your positionis no risk is acceptable then there clearly is an increased risk - but is it i:10 or 1:10 000 000 ?

I wonder if the risks of this third hand smoke are really significant. Like yourself I can't be bothered to research it more - I had a quick glance at the refs yo provided neither of which answer that question - its probably unanswerable anyway.

Ta.

I think that where there is a risk that is very easily removed (ie smoking) there isn't a compelling reason to allow it.

Graham - so you are basing your position on "no such thing as a safe level" fair enough.

Yeah pretty much. Hopelessly naive I know, but as a balance of risks it boils down to: would I rather expose my baby daughter to substances that I know to be harmful (even if the actual increased risk of harm is probably pretty tiny) or would I prefer to keep her away from them and risk upsetting my father?

He'll forgive me 🙂

Cons: Puts child at an increased risk of health problems or a later dependency on smoking, might upset the carer

Pros: The child will see how cool smoking is
[img] [/img]

im in no way condoning smoking around a child , however since this is a thread about worrying about nasty contaminates finding their way into your child, id like to add a few more to freak you out;

coal fired power stations produce more radiation then nuclear ones. this is let out of the chimney vents rather then collected into yellow barrels.

MDF contains such high levels of toxins that one exposure so dust given off by it is deemed too much. it 'off-gases' when in your home, these gases are carcinogenic, being mainly made up of formaldehyde

air pollution causes in excess of 50,000 early deaths a year in the uk. mainly from power stations and cars. this is more then passive smoking, obesity or traffic accidents (Commons Environmental Audit Committee report 2010)

just some food for thought

In 12 years time she'll be snogging someone you don't approve of.
In 17 years time she'll be having sex with someone you don't approve of.
In 20 years time she'll be married to someone you don't approve of.
In 25 years time she'll be having children and bringing them up in a way you don't approve of.

In between those times she'll drinking more alcohol than you approve of, taking drugs that you don't approve of, staying out later than you approve of.

If you're concerned about Granny now, you gonna have sooooooooooooo much fun to come....

Smokings cool as its put behind the sweety counter - lit brightly right infront of your face when you pay for your paper in the morning.

Talk about temptation for people who have quit.

Shopkeepers bleat about 'losing money' if its under the counter.

Funny, alot of them around our way seem to be practising Muslims who also sell pornography.

@jonah: I don't allow her to work in coalfired powerstations or B&Q either. 🙂

Ah yes, only Christians should sell jazz mags....
In one way you're lucky, at least you're not horas father in law...

I have to keep telling my Mum to curb her language sometimes. Not real offensive, just mild cursing, "bloody" this & the occasional "pissing" that; when she's wound up. (usually by the Daily mail).
She's sadly too old now for looking after kids, but think yourselves lucky. At one point we were coughing up over £1k a month.
Get the Wife to have a word, but from what you said I'd not be too concerned.

I guess it puts a new light on the saying "Granny had a big Cuban in the garden".

hora - Member
Smokings cool as its put behind the sweety counter - lit brightly right infront of your face when you pay for your paper in the morning.

Talk about temptation for people who have quit.

I see it as a test hora when I go into the newsagent now.

I see them there in their silver, gold or brightly coloured boxes looking like some kind of ingots of precious metals and then when the shopkeeper asks "do you want anything else?" I give myself a pat on the back when I reply "no thanks!".

I stopped going into my local shops for a couple of weeks after I stopped to avoid the temptation!

I have to keep telling my Mum to curb her language sometimes. Not real offensive, just mild cursing, "bloody" this & the occasional "pissing" that; when she's wound up. (usually by the Daily mail).

Then she emailed me once to stop swearing on Facebook as my nieces are friends. I said (IIRC) ****damnshit**** (in my defence, Leeds had just been beaten heavily). Which, correct me if I am wrong, not even a swear word. 😆

1 She is doing you a favour and saving you money
2 She appears to be making a reasonable effort not to smoke near the kid

Personally I would'nt expect any more in the circumstances.

Some of them have new lighting - almost LED-white backlit/downlit to draw your eye/create attention.

Always at the same eyeline as the person behind the counter as well so if you look at the chap/lady you are also looking at them...

[img] [/img]

Hora. That makes no sense at all. On that basis you'd be compelled to buy everything shiny you ever looked at. That'd be ridiculous! You'd be changing your bike frame or your car every week.

Oh.... hang on a minute.....

I think the only safe option is to barricade yourself into a hermetically sealed environment and pray.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose ]Even the bananas are dangerous!!![/url]

Can't we power the world using bananas then?

And the methane from cow farts obviously.

It's the way forward I tells ya.

Fancy Marble tonight or tomorrow pm? I was in there last Sat night enjoying a few whilst reading a paper in peace 🙂