Doubt there will be anymore defectors now and personally I don’t want any.

Wakefield is here though, it’s done for good or bad and I’m content to let the other back benchers tear the Tory party apart from the inside.

If his move has caused more of them to defend Boris as a survival instinct (as reported), all the better. They get themselves further tainted by association.

Hopefully enough so that Labour can form a majority government.

Or maybe Labour MPs could join the Tories? That would have the same effect, and it would probably be easier.

After all there’s no point getting hung up on ideology

Or maybe you accept that now Brexit is apparently ‘done’, normal service is resumed and you can only win from the centre, as Boris is now finding out

Ideology is not really for most people, from whichever direction

Inside Croydon, posted on the interweb, looks like an invaluable, independent and impartial news source Ernie.

Yup, it is binners, fiercely independent and utterly merciless. No one can expect any favours from them.

Glad you found the link interesting, I’ll post more if I see any that I think you might also find interesting.

Although now that you don’t post on this thread anymore I don’t know whether you will see them?

Or have I gone too far back and you’ve changed your mind since yesterday?

it’s done for good or bad

Including whether he is the Labour Party candidate next general election?

Blimey that was quick. It’s not surprising that he was so keen to join Labour, specially as the seat will almost certainly go to Labour next election anyway.

Ah you were trying to be funny. 😂😐

I live in Bury

Is that what you call Ramsbottom when you’re trying to sound more ‘salt of the earth’? Even when you’re not posting here any more.

Including whether he is the Labour Party candidate next general election?

Honestly not being argumentative here and really not shopping for a “fight” as I’m fully aware of my hypocritical position but also prepared to live with it at this juncture. Get them out.

Yep, if it transpires he is fighting the seat in 2 years I’m ok with that.

My single concern is that he must win the seat, no more. As long as that is the outcome I’ll continue to hold my nose.

Blimey that was quick. It’s not surprising that he was so keen to join Labour, specially as the seat will almost certainly go to Labour next election anyway.

Bury South has always been Labour, but was quite unique at the last election.
It’s not referred to as Manchester’s kosher moat for nothing. It has an enormous Jewish population (one of the largest in Europe) and guess what… they weren’t massively enamoured with Jeremy Corbyn. Who knows why? It’s a complete mystery

I think the polling just published today is more reflective of the constituency than the result of the last election and you’re probably best looking at as more a judgement on local opinions to the labour party, pre and post Magic Grandad

I think the polling just published today is more reflective of the constituency than the result of the last election and you’re probably best looking at as more a judgement on local opinions to the labour party, pre and post Magic Grandad

I know you think that he’s the messiah and some kind of living god, but the Jewish population of Prestwich passed their judgement on Grandad at the last election and I personally credit their opinion more than the Corbyn fan club in North London

This is the extent of the magic grandad effect from the last election and now. Much as Boris has been a contributing factor, so has the beardy allotment dweller

Whichever way you try to spin it, there has been a big shift in the opinion of the large Jewish population of the Labour since Grandad has departed

Quite frankly IMHO they’re the only people who are qualified to pass judgement to pass comment on the Labour Party and antisemitism

Bury South currently projected to go Labour by 24.1% if an election were held today. pic.twitter.com/kdWMfwHH1Y

— Election Maps UK (@ElectionMapsUK) January 19, 2022

Binners, please stop bringing up Corbyn, it’s 2022 now!

Thank you binners for taking so much time explaining in great detail how the seat might go to Labour next election, I guess my comment “specially as the seat will almost certainly go to Labour next election anyway” didn’t provide clear evidence that I was aware of that.

Interesting comment about the “beardy allotment dweller” btw, I guess the great thing about Starmer is that he has neither a beard nor an allotment.

Binners, please stop bringing up Corbyn, it’s 2022 now

I’m merely explaining the unique position of Bury South at the last election

I live in Bury. I have lots of Jewish friends, who told me their opinions. I’m merely explaining the massive part Corbyn had in losing this previously safe Labour seat.

It may look very different in Islington, obviously, but I don’t have much interest in how it looks from down there. I’d rather deal with reality.

Yes binners you were pointing out that, according to you anyway, it’s the fault of the Jewish community that Labour failed to win Bury. Presumably if it didn’t have such a large Jewish it would have returned a Labour member of parliament.

But you ought to be careful though mate, you could get expelled from the Labour Party for blaming Jews for the poor election result.

I live in Bury. I have lots of Jewish friends, who told me their opinions. I’m merely explaining the massive part Corbyn had in losing this previously safe Labour seat.

Hard agree. I resigned my party membership appalled at the comments from the aftermath the EHRC, having concluded their inquiry: ““We found specific examples of harassment, discrimination and political interference in our evidence,” the EHRC said in its foreword, adding: “But equally of concern was a lack of leadership within the Labour party on these issues, which is hard to reconcile with its stated commitment to a zero-tolerance approach to antisemitism.” and of course Corbyn’s obfuscation and vacillation over Brexit. I made sure that the person on the end of the phone at Labour HQ made careful note of my reasons for cancellation.

In January 2020, I applied to rejoin. I’m happy to report that I’m paying my subs again.

But you ought to be careful though mate, you could get expelled from the Labour Party for blaming Jews for the poor election result

Except I’m not blaming the Jews though, am I? I’m squarely laying the blame at the feet of Jeremy Corbyn who fostered an environment that made them about as welcome as a fart in a space suit

You can’t do that then be surprised when you lose the seat

I’m sure everything looks different from Islington North though. That being the centre of the ****ing universe, after all

Their opinions are obviously twice or four times as valid as us poor uneducated fools who actually live in places like Bury

What would we know? We defer to your superior, patronising, ill-informed condescension obviously more informed position

Maybe London Jewish members are different, or, much more likely, left-wing Jewish members are different.

The only Jewish Labour Party members I’ve talked to or heard talking in meetings have been strong Corbyn supporters.

But then I rarely go to meetings where right-wingers are likely to speak so I am perfectly willing to accept that right-wing Jews might have different opinions.

I don’t subscribe to the view that all people of a certain race think and act in the same way. I judge people on the basis of them being individual human beings, not on the basis of their race.

Except I’m not blaming the Jews though, am I?

Yes you are, you specifically said that the reason Bury went Tory last election was because of a large Jewish community.

I assume that as a Labour Party member you voted Labour so did not agree with the (alleged) conclusion of the Jewish community.

You are blaming them. People have been expelled from the Labour Party for less than that. Claiming “I wasn’t being racist” isn’t good enough. You blamed Jews for voting incorrectly.

The only Jewish Labour Party members I’ve talked to or heard talking in meetings have been strong Corbyn supporters.

Well maybe have a walk around Prestwich – one of the biggest Jewish communities in Europe – and ask people what they think of Jeremy Corbyn

You don’t really need too. The last election in this previously safe Labour seat compared to today’s polling tells you everything you need to know

Like most people in London, of all political persuasions, it might be worth acknowledging that other parts of the country actually exist

You voted Labour didn’t you?

Did you vote Labour because you aren’t Jewish?

That sounds very racist.

Yes you are, you specifically said that the reason Bury went Tory last election was because of a large Jewish community

They expressed their opinion at the ballot box. Specifically about the culture in the Labour Party under grandad

You or I can say what we like. It’s their opinion that matters. Ours is frankly irrelevant. We don’t get to judge as we aren’t on the receiving end

Carry on defending Corbyn if you like. You’re a fully paid up member of the cult, after all

Maybe come up to Whitefield and try it there? Can I watch?

You voted Labour didn’t you?

Did you vote Labour because you aren’t Jewish?

That sounds very racist.

Racist? Say what now?

I can’t even comprehend what that nonsensical gibberish is even meant to mean, comrade

I take it that it’s an insult, but I’m just guessing.

Who knows?

Carry on defending Corbyn if you like.

I have done no such thing. Are you hallucinating?

I am challenging your claim that all Jews share the same political opinion.

And I have questioned whether you voted Labour last election because you aren’t Jewish.

I am challenging your claim that all Jews have the same political opinion

I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest the vast majority share the same opinion of Jeremy Corbyn and his associates. Certainly in this part of the world. The election result and recent polling would support that

And I have questioned whether you voted Labour last election because you aren’t Jewish

Eh? What on earth are you on about? Do I also have to vote Labour as I’m not Nigerian?

I voted Labour because I’m a Labour Party member and support the party even though at the last two elections I thought the ‘leader’ and all those around him, and all his disciples are… erm… shall we say “less than perfect”

We all know what the option is. We’re living it

Except I’m not blaming the Jews though, am I?

Yes you are, you specifically said that the reason Bury went Tory last election was because of a large Jewish community.

You voted Labour didn’t you?

Did you vote Labour because you aren’t Jewish?

That sounds very racist.

I’ll be honest, I’m no fan of the way binners bangs on on this thread and the circular arguments it creates, but jeez Ernie, those two comments are utter bollocks to the point of trolling.

Ideology is not really for most people, from whichever direction

Lmfao.

If houses prices took a crunch let’s see what the asset class thought about ideology.

It’s just that most people ignore the poor and the associated problems of society unless it affects them directly.

I had no idea you were being serious when it is so clearly the right-wing that is hellbent on treating Labour Party members as the enemy, instead of focusing on the Tories.

As i said in my clarification – I did not mean the left of the labour party – I meant the whole of the left in UK politics – ie including the right wing of the labour party.  Yes its the right of labour driving the useless and counter productive infighting now but as long as I have followed politics the infighting in the labour party and amongst the left of Uk politics has hampered the labour party.

Why the labour party is so hamstrung by infighting I do not understand but its been like that all my life.  At times its been the right of the party as the aggressors, At times the left.  Sometimes its even been sectarian in Scotland

Scottish labour is pretty much dead because of this as they allied themselves with the tories rather than making common ground with the SNP to fight the tories

Is that what you call Ramsbottom when you’re trying to sound more ‘salt of the earth’? Even when you’re not posting here any more.

He doesn’t even live in the same constituency!

It’s also worth remembering that the former MP – Ivan Lewis – was suspended from Labour over sexual misconduct allegations. He subsequently resigned and ran as an independent, splitting the Labour vote and even encouraging people to vote Tory.

But yeah, it’s all Corbyn’s fault of course.

Bury South has always been Labour

No it hasn’t, it was Tory from 83-97. Anyway aside from the obviously ridiculous spectacle of labour welcoming a right wing Tory c*** into it’s ranks, which bizarrely you lot think is great, Starmer’s politically naive ‘coup’ has done an amazing job of rallying Tory MPs behind the leader they were about to depose. Totally f****** clueless!

I have questioned whether you voted Labour last election because you aren’t Jewish.

sorry, I’m still meditating on this gem of a koan…

I just about get used now to the antikeirs mainly say the opposite of what they mean, and then it’s an effortless jink, jink round a couple of corners and I’m lost again. Anyway, what was it about Corbyn?

Starmer’s politically naive ‘coup’ has done an amazing job of rallying Tory MPs behind the leader they were about to depose. Totally f****** clueless!

It was not Starmers coup although he could have told him to eff off

IMo this is good for labour – the longer the lying incompetent drunkard stays as leder the more damage he does to the tories d the better labours chances are at the next election

Anyway aside from the obviously ridiculous spectacle of labour welcoming a right wing Tory c*** into it’s ranks, which bizarrely you lot think is great,

…and then a fully non-ironic statement. No wonder I’m confused 🙂

I think most people posting on this thread have mixed feelings, with “hold your nose” being the consensus given he’ll have voted as whipped.

Replies to the tweet you posted a page or so ago about this shoring up support for Johnson were of the view that his staying (longer) would be good for labour. fwiw. Though personally i think he should never have had anything to do with government and the sooner he’s gone the better.

Ernie, those two comments are utter bollocks to the point of trolling.

That’s your prerogative MDTD, you are entitled to think what you want, so am I.

Binners fully and enthusiastically supports the anti-Semitism witch-hunt in the Labour Party and yet he himself makes a wild and false suggestion that all Jews share the same political views and vote accordingly.

I have no doubt that there are right-wing Jews who were strongly opposed to Corbyn, especially his views on Palestine. But I also know that there are left-wing Jews who very strongly supported Corbyn.

I reject the very old and tired racist nonsense that all Jews are communists, all Jews are capitalists, all Jews are Zionists, all Jews are right/left-wing, etc etc.

There are Jews in the Labour Party and there are Jews in the Tory Party.

Binners cannot suggest that all Jews are anti-Corbyn, as he has very clearly done. People have been expelled from the Labour Party for less than that. Would it be acceptable for a Corbyn supporter to make that claim? Of course not.

Furthermore binners suggests that Jews in Bury were correct for not voting Labour, you can only assume that if he was Jewish he would not have voted Labour.

I’m not sure what message the attacks on Wakeford send to Tory voters they want to win back.

If Labour can’t attract a broad range of voters (and MPs) , they will remain in opposition forever

Except I’m not blaming the Jews though, am I?

Yes you are, you specifically said that the reason Bury went Tory last election was because of a large Jewish community.

It’s not really blame, it’s an attempt to understand what happened. It’s a completely different thing to ‘blaming the Jews’ as an antisemitic historical phenomenon. You should know that.

Binners cannot suggest that all Jews are anti-Corbyn, as he has very clearly done.

koans thick and fast!

I’m not sure what message the attacks on Wakeford send to Tory voters they want to win back.

Oh I dont know that maybe labour isnt a hard right party? I mean why bother voting for a shallow imitation?

I am not sure what message confusing an politician with “Tory voters” in general is meant to achieve either?
Aside from buying into the normal hard right press line of confusing categories together?
He could have rebelled easily enough. After all the only punishments available to the whips are to withdraw support for the next election, no government job or the ultimate option of pulling the whip. None of which should really concern someone already thinking of switching parties.
So sorry but the poor him approach doesnt really work.

the attacks on Wakeford are just “noises off” and will not reach those ex tory / potential labour voters.  the folk who might switch labour / tory are not the sort of folk who are interested in politics or think deeply about it or they would not be tempted to switch

He could have rebelled easily enough. After all the only punishments available to the whips are to withdraw support for the next election, no government job or the ultimate option of pulling the whip. None of which should really concern someone already thinking of switching parties.

true and well put

It was not Starmers coup although he could have told him to eff off

Yeah, whilst I enjoyed the spectacle, on reflection I think he should’ve done. It’s not exactly a victory for democracy, given that he will now be voting in Parliament on a entirely different basis to the one upon which he was elected.

It’s not really blame, it’s an attempt to understand what happened.

Starmer would not tolerate a Corbyn supporter claiming “we lost Bury because of the Jewish vote”, they would undoubtedly be expelled from the Labour Party for that.

Binners attempt to lump all Jews as anti-Corbyn is false.

attempt to lump all Jews as anti-Corbyn is false.

He says “vast majority” not “all”, so depends what you mean by “vast”. Polling suggests 93%

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/overwhelming-majority-of-british-jews-would-prefer-no-deal-brexit-to-jeremy-corbyn-government-1.490590

I’ve not looked into the figures under this story, but I’d say it’s evidence in favour of “vast”?

Not sure what post you are reading Ernie, because you seem to be missing binners point quite spectacularly!

Either that, or you are trying to put words in somebodies mouth to make your own point instead of debating theirs.

He said the vast majority of Jewish voters he has spoken to <b>from that constituency,</b> not all Jews. Unless you read something I missed?!?!?!