Scots dislike overtaking

I’ve been driving in Scotland for 13 years and have to say I don’t agree either.

Only ever had this when it was fully deserved. I head up and down to the borders from Edinburgh fairly often and have used the A702 quite a few times and can’t say I’ve ever seen this happen unless it was deserved.

I don’t tend to hang about either and will overtake as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

No idea why you are getting this treatment, not got an England flag on the car boot do you???? 😉

After years of driving north and south of the border, one thing that Scottish drivers are really bad at is:

On a motorway and you overtake a car and they speed up!

Even if you have caught up with them from miles back. So I have got into the habit if a car is slightly slower. I will sit behind for a while then overtake them at my original speed. Then they are fully aware they are speeding up, and tend not to.
It does happen south of the border by in Scotland it really is bad.

Monospeeders are everywhere, winds me up no end…..and relax…2..3…

Was your overtaking necessary?

Personal question really isn’t it, but the definition of necessary in this case is…?

White solid-bordered hatch lines are illegal to cross except in an emergency or if there’s a REALLY slow person <10mph, so the designation of broken white lines to me is “don’t generally use it as a lane but if it’s safe then you can use it if it’s necessary to overtake”. If it was not then they’d all be solid white as overtaking would not be allowed except in emergencies/exceptions. And the “if necessary” was only added in the last couple of years, until recently that bit was not present. There are areas of solid whites, the change to broken whites to me indicates it’s up to the drivers discretion of what’s safe?

I do agree that in Scotland drivers seem to be more courteous and generally better than elsewhere, so it’s not an attack on them per se.

No idea why you are getting this treatment, not got an England flag on the car boot do you????

😀 No, I did check that I didn’t have one on the number plates just in case 🙂

I don’t drive enough in Scotland for this comment to have statistical validity but I find the driving better there than in most of England.

I can confirm that people in Cheshire really, really, really do not like being overtaken. Sorry to sound like my dad but, when I learnt to drive overtaking was something people did routinely. As someone above said, if someone wants to drive slowly, I don’t mind at all. As long as they don’t mind me overtaking where I can do it safely and legally.

But it seems that Joe Public’s opinion has changed over time and overtaking is now seen as the actions of a dangerous lunatic.

I think the problem is, speaking as a regular overtaker, a lack of knowledge/understanding/application of the Highway Code

+1

I am constantly surprised that people do not understand the NSL properly. I suspect people also don’t like being overtaken as they see their own speed as the correct and most appropriate speed, and if you want to go faster, you are clearly in the wrong.

I can relate to the A702 comments. I always slow down through the villages, these idiots then creep ahead at a steady 45mph, so when I accelerate briskly out the other side and catch up with them, I am always hopeful that they will then realise that they should have slowed down.* Muppets.

* The reality is that the mono-speeders probably have no idea where they are, never look in the mirrors and have no idea that I dropped back through the 30mph section. Grr.

For reference on my road etiquette, 6 months back I did go for an overtake and checked in my mirror but then left it a bit long (couple of seconds) before making the move. A motorbike pulled out to overtake me from about 6 cars back and I spotted him as I pulled out, he’d had to brake to stay at a safe distance from me. I followed him home (he lived near me by coincidence) and apologised for not checking again in my mirror, he apologised for not indicating he was pulling out to overtake but I still consider that my fault. So while I’m not a saint/perfect, I am willing to admit when I’m an idiot.

Ah well, I’ll not get quite so defensive in future!

At least from the sound of it they aren’t speeding up to try & stop you from overtaking…..that has to be the most stupid reaction to an overtake.

Don’t get me started on overtaking……oh, too late.

What I find bemusing is when you overtake something and the person behind you takes this as a challenge that they have to overtake not only the vehicle you have just gone past, but you as well in the same manoeuvre. Shortly afterwards they slow back down and start holding you up.

You also get the idiots who decide they want to drive at 40mph, but will speed up to 60mph at any overtaking point to stop you overtaking, then straight back down to 40mph when the overtaking opportunity passes.

AND, the people who try & pre-empt where you are going and try to ‘block’ you, so you can’t ‘get past them’.
Going to Thetford last Sunday and on the approach to a roundabout that I am turning right at, I start to indicate. The bloke in front is looking in his mirror and thinks that I am going to use the ‘wrong’ lane at the roundabout to overtake him and then carry straight on, so moves over to the right of the lane, giving me less space to come alongside him when the road splits to two lanes at the roundabout. There’s enough space and he’s cheesed me off (very mature, I know) so I move to come alongside his car. As I do so, he indicates right and shunts over to the right hand lane. He then gets onto the roundabout (still indicating right) and proceeds to go straight over it….

The junction would put me off overtaking at the first one more than the hatching. Second one looks fine as far as I can see.

you think its bad in scotland try driving in Ireland, especially County Cork and the far south
Can’t even fart inside your own car there without some dodery old fecker that has never passed a test in their lives flashing you

For reference on my road etiquette, 6 months back I did go for an overtake and checked in my mirror but then left it a bit long (couple of seconds) before making the move. A motorbike pulled out to overtake me from about 6 cars back and I spotted him as I pulled out, he’d had to brake to stay at a safe distance from me. I followed him home (he lived near me by coincidence) and apologised for not checking again in my mirror, he apologised for not indicating he was pulling out to overtake but I still consider that my fault. So while I’m not a saint/perfect, I am willing to admit when I’m an idiot.

Ah well, I’ll not get quite so defensive in future!

if STW had some kind of “respect” rating, i’d be clicking furiously on it right now… fair play old bean 🙂

You also get the idiots who decide they want to drive at 40mph, but will speed up to 60mph at any overtaking point to stop you overtaking, then straight back down to 40mph when the overtaking opportunity passes.

I usually put this down to a very nervous driver because overtake spots are generally much wider and safer by definition, so they feel a bit better going fast. But they clearly are not considering the people behind, I agree.

I’d have to disagree, but to be fair there are *duffers* everywhere. From my perspective the Scots (*and French) [usually older people] appear to be among the last people on earth to understand that if somebody blips the left indicator a few times and slows on a straight that it’s an invitation to overtake, rather than an inviation to get closer and closer and slower and slower …….. it’s also a real shame that so,so,so few people will repay me the courtesy when I’m trying to crack on.

I did go for an overtake and checked in my mirror but then left it a bit long (couple of seconds) before making the move.

There are a lot of people who seem to drive without ever checking their mirrors ever! Must have had 5 or 6 yesterday pull out on me while I was overtaking car(s) which had pulled over to let me pass while I was on blue lights and sirens. Always amazes me that it never occurs to them that there is a reason the cars in front have all pulled over 👿

To the OP – when I go to Scotland I tend to want to get to my destination asap and therefore do a lot of overtaking. I can’t recall ever being flashed at or having someone ‘wave’ at me. I would suggest that as it happens regularly to you that there is probably something wrong with your driving and judgement.

My thoughts are that you probably missed something. Overtaking going past a junction is NEVER a clever thing to do. What about a truck coming out of the quarry and the driver doesnt look left? You’d be in a wee bit of bother then wouldnt you.

What George said. I have tried explaining this a few times to somebody I know who regularly overtakes other cars in built up area 30 zones. Cos all drivers look left before they turn onto a road to go left don’t they ?? As they are obviously expecting a car coming on the wrong side of the road at speed…

Given that this seems to have become somewhere to air pet grievances, I shall add mine 🙂

Tailgating, obviously. I just flip my mirror up these days – that way, all the stress dissipates very quickly.

And my favourite, as alluded to by stumpy^^^. Folk who drive at 70 on the straights, then slow down to 20 at the slightest sign of a corner. This is particularly applicable to the windy, narrow roads on the west coast of Scotland, where the corners can go on for several miles – they crawl along through the twists and turns doing 20, when 40 or even 50 would be perfectly safe, then the second the road straightens up, their foot is down, they move to the middle of the road and they’re glaring at you in their mirror.

You can be stuck behind this brand of twit for hours sometimes.

I realise that the above description may make it sound like I’m sitting 10 feet behind their rear bumper, hissing in fury. And yes, after 60 miles of this torture, I probably am!! And just for the record, it’s always tourists in hire / foreign cars, not locals (I usually get out of the locals’ way sharpish!).

I would suggest that as it happens regularly to you that there is probably something wrong with your driving and judgement.

Normally Id agree but I have put it out here for analysis/feedback.

My thoughts are that you probably missed something. Overtaking going past a junction is NEVER a clever thing to do. What about a truck coming out of the quarry and the driver doesnt look left? You’d be in a wee bit of bother then wouldnt you.

No, the wall is low enough for me to see any traffic coming up the lane, but unless the truck pulled out into the middle section (not really necessary even with a long vehicle, it’s a wide road) Id be prepared for it and stop.

What George said. I have tried explaining this a few times to somebody I know who regularly overtakes other cars in built up area 30 zones. Cos all drivers look left before they turn onto a road to go left don’t they ?? As they are obviously expecting a car coming on the wrong side of the road at speed…

Did you actually look at the road? As I say, not really important as I’m not on the wrong side of the road at all and the junction is aligned with the right turn lane, if they pulled out without looking they’d hit someone decelerating to turn right just as likely as someone overtaking. It’s totally different to overtaking in built up 30 zones, surely you can see that?! And regardless, that has absolutely sod all to do with the guy who’s 300 yards further down the road coming the opposite way.

Is your boot open?

Is your boot open?

Would be fairly obvious, I’d be being sucked out the back!

Probably at the speed you drive you maniac

In all seriousness it’s just down to what the locals are used to. You’re probably doing it safely, they’re just not used to seeing it done. I’ve witnessed the same heading for the ferry at Cairnryan.

Bring them down here and I’ll drive them into Manchester or Leeds at rush hour.

Maybe they were getting upset at you driving over the hatching?
Apparently the highway code is “unclear”

109. Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

* If the area is bordered by a solid white line, you should not enter it except in an emergency.
* If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
* If the area is on a motorway and consists of a triangle bounded by continuous white lines marked by chevrons, you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency. Now I always thought hatching meant a no go area. I was forgetting “should not” means “fine go for it” nowadays, only “must not” matters. Not having (much of) a pop at you CK, you checked it was safe to do so but was overtaking “neccessary”?(I’m guessing this was a point 2 situation)

*I’m making some assumptions here so don’t get upset if I got it wrong and I may have done the same in that situation, dunno, just offering a possible reason for other drivers upset.

7 years driving in Scotland, and I kind of agree with coffeeking. Drivers in Scotland are generally slower on NSL roads than they are in England, i.e. 5mph under the NSL rather than 10mph over.

Wouldn’t have a clue about overtake flashers though, cos I’m either in a car that doesn’t have enough oomph to overtake in the first place or one that’s so ridiculously fast that the light from their headlights can’t catch up to my rear view mirror.

I’ve witnessed the same heading for the ferry at Cairnryan

I had the dubious honour of watching an empty milk tanker overtake my mother driving at 35mph on the road from Auchenmalg to Port William when we were down there last time.

I vowed to take my own car regardless of the cost of fuel to save any future embarrassment.

Ox – its normally the oncomers who have a hairy fit and give you the digits.

I’ve made some overtakes on a wide single carriageway road where oncoming people have swerved towards the white line to illustrate their anger – quite possibly the most stupid thing ever.

Have taken a look at the pictures you provided and only thing I would be saying is that I wouldn’t be encouraging anyone to be overtaking in either of those places due to poor sight lines and hidden hazards. So basically you need to chill out a wee bit with your driving. Finally, you wouldn’t be gaining much time by overtaking on either of those stretches of road, but you are drastically increasing your exposure to risk.

Coffeeking, people here are generally just a bit more chilled and in a bit less of a rush. This is a good thing, you should try it (leave a few minutes earlier). I’d say flashing and aggressive behaviour is less common here too – so if you are getting it 60% of the time you must be driving too aggressively (for the local attitudes, I’m not saying you are actually unsafe).

You’ve rewritten the highway code to allow you to overtake a tractor on solid chevrons etc. The rule is an emergency – being stuck behind a tractor, cyclist, horse is not an emergency. That MIGHT be grounds for it being necessary on a broken white line, someone doing 40 on a two lane country road is probably not. Are double white lines just for guidance too?

Your overtake approaching the brickworks was probably niave. Little old lady may realise she’s going the wrong way and decide to turn in the entrance, or perhaps she’s going to pick up her son from work etc. However I’ve not really noticed many little old ladies flashing lights and flicking v’s so either I am much more polite to them or she wasn’t that old / you really upset her!

The two vans situation you describe could have been gesturing to each other rather than you.

Other situations might be someone using their lights “correctly” to say “I’m here” which you’ll often see lorry drivers do, as in “I’m here, feel free to pull back in now”.

When I first passed my test and thought I was a “superhero” I flashed lots of people. I rarely flash/hoot at anyone unless I actually have to break as a result of their actions.

There is of course another benefit to driving with a lighter right foot – with fuel approaching £1.50 a litre in some parts of Scotland – you’ll find its lighter on the wallet!

Bishopbriggs is bad for people doddling about- hard not to get annoyed sitting behind someone going SO slow!

You also get the idiots who decide they want to drive at 40mph, but will speed up to 60mph at any overtaking point to stop you overtaking, then straight back down to 40mph when the overtaking opportunity passes.

Just reminded me of an incident on the A7 (but the English end) at Christmas. I overtook a row of cars and as I past the last one (before the lorry) I obviously gave him a ‘shock’ as I was shifting at this point.

He immediately sped up and latched on to me flashing his lights, as I pulled in he dragged alongside and started with threatening arm-waving. At this point I put my foot down. He managed to keep up (now in excess of 120) until an oncoming corner forced him to drop, behind. He ran close behind for the next few miles before turning off.

He was driving a McRae rep. Subaru and built like a brick out-house – I wasn’t stopping to discuss the legalities of anything.

What the hell are you people doing on the roads – ffs.

Folk who drive at 70 60 on the straights and slam on their brakes when they spot the speed camera as they pass it, then slow down to 20 at the slightest sign of a corner. This is particularly applicable to the windy, narrow roads on the west coast of Scotland,

…..and the A68 !

Coffeeking…its not something else you’re doing, such as driving with your fog lights on, not indicating, driving with headlights that are adjusted too high, not leaving enough sideways clearance as you pass, leaving a trail of black smoke behind (my old diesel Citroen did that…good for tailgaters!) or plain just shifting at 90mph after completing the overtake?! Or, as you admit you get a run up, are you just passing too quickly and scaring the other driver, once he flashes you, its more likely an oncoming vehicle will join in to back them up! For oncoming cars to flash you they obviously think you are driving carelessly. (Hatchings example excepted as its quite common for people to treat them as if they are bordered with a solid line)

What really gets me is the long queues doing 40 on NSL roads but sitting far too close to each other, so if you overtake and try to get back in you have to cut it a bit tighter than they like due to the lack of space

Oh, your one of them! Unless you are on two wheels, why overtake when there is no space to pull in (as the highway code recommends) especially when you will need numerous overtakes to get to the front of the queue? The reason people are following each other two close is that they are all itching to get past as well, except you’ve decided you are more important and are going to keep jumping the queue, annoying everyone in the process!

I had the dubious honour of watching an empty milk tanker overtake my mother driving at 35mph

Probably made the tanker drivers day 🙂 I was grinning from ear-to-ear after managing to (perfectly safely) overtake a horsebox, in my campervan, towing a horse trailer, with a horse on board. 120bhp, the aerodynamics of two house bricks, and 5.5tons and we sailed past resisting the urge to wave 🙂 It did need a half mile dead straight to make sure we had the visibility to get past though…

…slam on their brakes when they spot the speed camera as they pass it, …This is particularly applicable to the windy, narrow roads on the west coast of Scotland,

really – my recollection is there are very few speed cameras on the windy narrow roads on the West of Scotland – or do we have different definitions of Windy, Narrow and West?

My 2p,

It’s certainly not *all* of Scotland.

I was on holiday there a year or two back, somewhere near, uh, Fort William I think. Whatever, it was pretty rural, most of the roads were single lanes with passing places (ie, two-way roads the width of a one way).

I’ve never seen roads work quite like it. You get twenty yards behind another car and they pull in to let you past. The passing places are quite long, so they can nip in without losing much speed if you’re quick to pass. With oncoming traffic, it’s practically a competition to see who can give way to the other first. The entire time, driving round there was a joy. It should’ve been utterly painful to get anywhere, but because everyone was so courteous it was an absolute breeze.

you think its bad in scotland try driving in Ireland, especially County Cork and the far south
Can’t even fart inside your own car there without some dodery old fecker that has never passed a test in their lives flashing you

My experience of driving round that area is that it’s impossible to be flashed at because no-one ever turns off their main beam.

Fully agree with OP, on the drive from Cambridge to FW for 10 Under the Ben, locals seem to really object to being overtaken on the A82. East Coast, eg A9, doesn’t seem so bad.

my recollection is there are very few speed cameras

I added that in reference to the A68 (my additions are in bold and not the OP’s) and can’t comment on the west as I haven’t driven there much.

I drive everywhere, all year, with my dipped beam headlights on. I regularly get flashed at because of the headlights. I’d rather be seen than unseen.

As for:

Is your boot open?

Would be fairly obvious, I’d be being sucked out the back!

Unfortunately I can’t recall the last time I was “sucked out the back”, but would have expected flashing headlights and gesticulations from concerned road users…

coffeeking – Member
I would suggest that as it happens regularly to you that there is probably something wrong with your driving and judgement.
Normally Id agree but I have put it out here for analysis/feedback.

What is the history of that particular stretch of road and why is there hatchings?
If you were in my neck of the woods and executing that maneuver at the Carrutherstown, Annan or Shawhead junctions on the A75 Gretna to Stranraer trunk road you may well get flashed at. All of those junctions(and more) have claimed lives.
I witnessed a near head-on collision recently caused by some impatient driver doing exactly what you did because the car in front of them left their signalling very late, started to move over just as the overtaking car was level with it forcing it into the path of the oncoming car. The driver of the oncoming Golf took evasive action and corrected the ensuing tankslapper very nicely.
I had been sitting back from the cars in front of me because I had seen this guy coming up behind from a fair distance away(I was`nt dawdling btw 😉 ) and had a bit of a “feeling” he might be taking a few too many chances.
Being a driver of some 40yrs experience and driving this road nearly every weekend you do see some nutters and know when to sit back and chill. You only end up stuck behind the next convoy of Irish lorries anyway 🙄
Recent experience of scary driving was on a visit down to Alfreton. Started to get worried when listening to the radio the very junction we were turning off at seemed to be permanently closed due to accidents 😯
Got there and found out why, what a scary place ❗ Spent all weekend with the map out avoiding that junction all weekend

Change your motor?

OK a few too many to answer to directly but here I go…

Coffeeking, people here are generally just a bit more chilled and in a bit less of a rush. This is a good thing, you should try it (leave a few minutes earlier).

I was/am fully chilled. There was not even a hint of a rush to me, I just don’t see the point in driving at 30 when it’s perfectly safe and possible to drive at 60. It’s hardly like I’m ragging around like a nutter 🙂 Kindly don’t make assumptions.

I’d say flashing and aggressive behaviour is less common here too – so if you are getting it 60% of the time you must be driving too aggressively (for the local attitudes, I’m not saying you are actually unsafe).

I rarely overtake, when I say 60% of the time I mean 60% of overtakes, not 60% of commutes 🙂 Maybe I’m just more happy overtaking than most peope around here, but I wouldn’t have thought so considering the surrounding hills and roads – if people didn’t overtake the dodderers round here no-one would get anywhere.

You’ve rewritten the highway code to allow you to overtake a tractor on solid chevrons etc.

Fair point on the solid lines, but that wasn’t the point of the matter, the broken lines were.

The rule is an emergency – being stuck behind a tractor, cyclist, horse is not an emergency.

Good point, but I’d not pass on a solid border anyway.

That MIGHT be grounds for it being necessary on a broken white line, someone doing 40 on a two lane country road is probably not. Are double white lines just for guidance too?

You’re mixing and matching lines and status. Broken lines are only a guide and can be crossed if necessary. Solid lines require specific exceptions (I just mentioned the wrong ones).

Your overtake approaching the brickworks was probably niave. Little old lady may realise she’s going the wrong way and decide to turn in the entrance, or perhaps she’s going to pick up her son from work etc. However I’ve not really noticed many little old ladies flashing lights and flicking v’s so either I am much more polite to them or she wasn’t that old / you really upset her!

You’ve mis-read again, the little old lady had no problems with the overtake, it was a guy coming opposite miles ahead. It’s not niave to expect people to operate reasonably on the road and drive accordingly.

The two vans situation you describe could have been gesturing to each other rather than you.

There was no two-van situation?

Other situations might be someone using their lights “correctly” to say “I’m here” which you’ll often see lorry drivers do, as in “I’m here, feel free to pull back in now”.

Very possible, I’d not thought of that situation. I suppose that’s distinctly possible with the general good standard of driving rule following. Curious.

When I first passed my test and thought I was a “superhero” I flashed lots of people. I rarely flash/hoot at anyone unless I actually have to break as a result of their actions.

I’ve never felt the need to flash/beep people, generally I can’t affect how other people drive so I save it until I need to be spotted.

There is of course another benefit to driving with a lighter right foot – with fuel approaching £1.50 a litre in some parts of Scotland – you’ll find its lighter on the wallet!

I get a regular 48mpg from a car that most people get 40-44 from, I get 60 on a motorway, trust me I’m not heavy footed most of the time, there’s not much point in a slow car – I save that for my slightly more nippy car and accept the 17mpg that gets.

What is the history of that particular stretch of road and why is there hatchings?

In the 3 years I’ve lived here I’ve never seen or heard of an accident there. It really isn’t a dangerous spot at all – you can see all accesses to the road clearly meaning there are rarely surprises and the road is wide enough for 4 cars abreast at a squeeze, it’s well lit and well drained with no potholes (amazingly).

I witnessed a near head-on collision recently caused by some impatient driver doing exactly what you did because the car in front of them left their signalling very late, started to move over just as the overtaking car was level with it forcing it into the path of the oncoming car.

That’s not caused by the overtaker strictly, that’s caused by a late signaller who didn’t check before signalling and manouvring. Not helped by the overtaker I admit.

Coffeeking…its not something else you’re doing, such as driving with your fog lights on, not indicating, driving with headlights that are adjusted too high, not leaving enough sideways clearance as you pass, leaving a trail of black smoke behind (my old diesel Citroen did that…good for tailgaters!) or plain just shifting at 90mph after completing the overtake?! Or, as you admit you get a run up, are you just passing too quickly and scaring the other driver, once he flashes you, its more likely an oncoming vehicle will join in to back them up! For oncoming cars to flash you they obviously think you are driving carelessly. (Hatchings example excepted as its quite common for people to treat them as if they are bordered with a solid line)

Tis possible some people get upset by a rapid overtake, but I’d not overtake above the speed limit so as far as I’m concerned it’s their problem not mine if they get surprised, they should look in their mirrors more and see me indicating to pass.

I’ll see if I can find time to respond to the other posts. Sniff – damn, you found me!