My point is that I don’t keep cheap Allen keys hanging about the workshop. Same with chain tools – the only chain tool I have is a Rohloff one, and no-one uses that but me.

its not so much, cheap allen keys these days, it the shit cheap allen cap bolts that manufacturers keep insisting on fitting out their bikes with that would probably round off first, also it doesnt matter how much you spend on tools, a crap mechanic will always ruin them, which is why i can understand shops not lending out expensive tools, but you have to admit, how petty is it for a shop not to lend the op a 4mm ak, after spending good money in that same shop,any workshop should have at least a few sets of allen keys lying around, especially a bike shop where a 4mm ak is used quite often.

4mm ak wats the cost 50p, if a shop cant afford that to lend to a customer who has just blown £50 in their shop, then they dont deserve any customers

This is my view. Cycle Surgwry have turned from a really good little bike shop into a corporate chain interestedonly inprofit. Which is why I no longer use them, other than to use their customer pump at their Holloway road branch. I won’t spend money in there though, because of theur attitude. I understand their staff churn rate is very high; not surprising really.

My point is that I don’t keep cheap Allen keys hanging about the workshop.

I don’t know what sort of bike shop you rn, but if you don’t have a few cheap tools to lend customers who spend money in your shop, then youre not the sort of bike shop i’d do business with. We’re not talking about Snap On ratchet sets or Park Headset presses etc, were talking aobut a 50p alen key. If the Op came in and demanded to use the frame alignment jig or facing tool for free, then of course, you’d tell them to get lost. But an allen key? Thats just petty. A good bike shop has some ‘sacrificial’ tools to lend customers, it’s part of a good customer servicce based business model. Offer something the onlinmes can’t. And if you dont, then quite frankly, you deserve to fail.

Would have fixed it for him myself, don’t lend any tools.

Agree with LoCo – I’ve usually got an Allen key in my hand, I’d happily tighten up a bolt if someone asked nicely. In fact did that a couple of times today.

Why don’t you just get some cheap basic tools to lend customers? What’s wrong with that? Are ypu in the busness becasue you love and bleive in promoting cycling, or do you just want to make money.

Because I don’t think I’ve ever lent a tool to someone who has spent money in my shop.

Because I don’t think I’ve ever lent a tool to someone who has spent money in my shop.

Then you’d never get my business. I’d go somewhere else, who would lend me the tool. Are oyu one of those bike shops who woudn’t lend someone a set of tyrel levers and a pump, if they’d bought an inner tube from you to fix their puncture?

Ben’s ‘bikeshop’ isn’t a bikeshop as you’re visualizing it, I think. 😉

Ben’s ‘bikeshop’ isn’t a bikeshop as you’re visualizing it, I think.

Sow hat sort of ‘bike shop’ is it then? 😕

In the old shop (before I had a normal shop as a neighbour) I’d get two types of non-customers – unprepared roadies, and people with cheap badly-maintained bikes. Both types would want things tightened or tyres pumped up, neither type would offer any money for such services or ever come back to spend money later.

It’s a waste of my time – I spend lots of time helping out real customers. Bolted a crank back on for one today, and rebuilt another person’s Brompton with new gears and brakes with parts at cost price.

Sow hat sort of ‘bike shop’ is it then?

The kind of shop that can custom-build you a bike from scratch, starting from raw tubes, but doesn’t fix punctures. Unless I like you.

We’re talking about a customer who’s spent money in the shop though. Not a ‘non-customer’.

rebuilt another person’s Brompton

Ah, so you don’t love cycling then. 😉

In the old shop (before I had a normal shop as a neighbour)

The kind of shop that can custom-build you a bike from scratch, starting from raw tubes, but doesn’t fix punctures. Unless I like you.

So, you’re nothingl like Cycle Surgery then. Very different type of business. That’s fair enough. I really don’t see how anyone can defend CS here though, they just seem petty and mean. I’ve sadly witnessed ths too often to make me want to do business with them, or reccomend anyone else to them.

Bromptons are brilliant, between helping those people I was finishing off a couple of upgraded Bromptons with Hope discs, one with a Rohloff, the other with an Alfine 11.

Bromptons – made in London, improved in Glasgow 😀

When you’re not gilding turds, what else do you do? 😉

i didnt realise allen keys were so precious, if the mechs on here are so frightened of loosing a 4mm ak, weld it on a long chain, like the banks do with their pens, ive forgotten the ammount of allen keys ive lost when lending them to apprentices,and i still lend them out,the op wasnt talking about lending tools, it was one 4mm ak, if people on here are so tight with their allen keys, try going to tool fairs, where you can pick up allen keys for pennies, that shop has probably lost far more than the cost of a set of allen keys, because next time the op will buy his next £50 worth of bike gear elswhere,so who looses in the long run, the mech with his precious allen keys, when the shop closes due to bad customer service,it takes a long time to build up good customer relations, but it doesnt take long to loose them to the internet shops

Oh, just the usual 🙂

Building unusual things:

Fixing things:

Nice. That tandem is like an MC Escher design, I can’t quite get my head round it! Don’t understand how that trike works either.

The tandem was a fun thing – lots of work to build though.

The trike is a Racerunner – it’s for people with balance or movement problems, to help them run on a running track.

This is a particularly nice Abelour, but I don’t think I’m that inebriated! What’s the deal with the twin wheel froent end?

Re the trike; the rganisation I work for uses adapted cycles for people of all physical abilities, so that sounds interesting. Do you have a website we could look at?

The owner likes tricycles – for stability at low speed, especially climbing big hills. But wanted a Rohloff hub, and liked the idea of front suspension. Also liked the idea of having something that’s never been made before ever 😉

(There have been a few tandem trikes with two front wheels, but using stub axles not forks)

Have a look at http://www.racerunning.org – there are production machines but they’re pretty heavy and clunky, this was for a young woman who’s competing at a pretty high level, and she wanted something as light as possible, so it’s made out of 0.9mm Columbus steel with carbon forks and ultralight wheels. It also splits in half for transport.

Bencooper; that’s fantastic. Exactly the sort of thing we’re inttrerested in. I’ll pass on this info, thanks. I take back my previous comments, although my anti-brompton stance remains firm. 😉

No, you’re not a ‘normal’ bike shop. And all credit to you for that.

Would you pull up outside Kwik fit and ask to borrow their tools to fix your car?

I would have fixed the chain then returned the multi tool saying that it didn’t fit..

Would you pull up outside Kwik fit and ask to borrow their tools to fix your car?

Why do people keep using pointless and irrelevant comparisons/scenarios? How about a better comparison, like you’ve just spent money at Kwkfix, and are about to leave, when you notice a numberplate screw is loose. Would it be such a big deal to ask to borrow a screwdriver for a few seconds? No. And this is the sort of situation the OP was in.

No your right its not comparible. But neithers yours.

You ask to borrow the screw driver and he checks his box of loaner tools and he doesnt have one to lend thus says no sorry.

Work shop tools are not the salesmans to give out,

Is it only me that carrys a selection of hex/screw driver bits in my camel back?
Never know when your going to need one..

No your right its not comparible. But neithers yours.

Of course mine is! Any decent bike shop, with a proper comitment to customer service (customers; the people who keep the bike shop in business) would have a selection of basic tools available for customer use. Ours has. In fact we even have a space outside with a selection of basic tools, where customers can do their own quick repairs for free. And our customers return because of our good customer service. And thy tell their friends. Etc. But then, we’re very different to Cycle Surgery.

Depends if you have the space to have customers half disassembled bikes lying all over your shop.

Im all for customer service but bending over too far just creates a rod for your own back. Prefer to offer customer service in the form of informed advice , short wait lists on repairs ( worked in one shop that was 6 weeks wait – that was rediculous and im not sure how they are still in business) and a good selection of stock of emergency needed bits. How ever the bulk of our work was repairs.

Infact another competitior local bike shop tried to approach it by bending over to far for the customer, he was well loved on stw for his free / very cheap repairs and his cheap prices/price matching.

He went bust after about 5 years once the money ran out. ( that was after taking over a shop that had been established for 15 or so years)

Im not saying be a **** but in a town centre shop that gets all sorts of customers we cannot be replacing tools that have been stolen time after time every other week. Once a year we topped ours up- one time we even had the chain on our loaner pump at the door cut when we were busy!!!!

Ps no garage mechanic i know – kwikfit or other wise will loan you tools – no ifs no buts , infact a couple of them you might geta few old broke tools launched at your head as you retreat for the door behind a torrent of abuse. They are good conciencious sklled guys and are always very busy – their lack of tool loaning doesnt seem to be doing them any harm…20+ years in business

Would you pull up outside Kwik fit and ask to borrow their tools to fix your car?

Why do people keep using pointless and irrelevant comparisons/scenarios? How about a better comparison, like you’ve just spent money at Kwkfix, and are about to leave, when you notice a numberplate screw is loose. Would it be such a big deal to ask to borrow a screwdriver for a few seconds? No. And this is the sort of situation the OP was in.[/quote]

Sorry, still does not compare.

The OP had issues with his drivetrain, not a loose bottle cage.

If you were at Kwik fit and just had a new battery fitted. Then discovered you had a flat, a spare tyre and jack, but no wheel nut wrench.
You are going to take the tyre away to be repaired as you have a mate that will plug it for you.
Would you then ask to borrow the tool you need and jack up your car in the Kwik fit car park?

So where do folk think the line should be drawn?

I had someone in recently asking me if she bought a £4 lever & puncture kit would I show her how to fix a puncture.

I had other stuff to do but talked her through it – thankfully she had a clue and was OK,but loads of times I’ve seen this go pear shaped with a full lesson, bike on the floor for 20 minutes, all for free.

I’ve also had chain tools returned broken.

I’ve been asked if I would show someone how to fit disc brakes if they bought them elsewhere.

OK these Qs are different to the OP’s Q but I think they are worth asking.

What a bunch of ****,

If you would not lend someone an Allen key to use with their splitter so they can fix their chain.
You deserve to have your business fold and wife run off with the fella who collects the trolleys at asda.

And find yourself living in a bedsit eating cold value beans from the can whilst receiving picture texts from said trolley collector of your wife performing sex acts on him while he’s wearing you dressing gown .

What a bunch of ****,

If you would not lend someone an Allen key to use with their splitter so they can fix their chain.
You deserve to have your business fold and wife run off with the fella who collects the trolleys at asda.

And find yourself living in a bedsit eating cold value beans from the can whilst receiving picture texts from said trolley collector of your wife performing sex acts on him while he’s wearing you dressing gown .

Not get you oats last night then? 😯 😀

So where do folk think the line should be drawn?

I think hoping for anything more than the minimum from Cycle Surgery, is like expecting freebies from Tescos. As in pretty slim.

No one, including the OP, seems to know if this is company policy, store manager policy, individual lazy/arrogant personal attitude or a customer that really does not warrant any extra effort.

When I used to spanner I would be willing to help if I had the time.
When I worked as an instructor I would make every effort to make a kid’s bike roadworthy as long as it did not impact on time for the group as a whole.
If I ran a shop i would be happy to keep loan tools available, but it would seem reasonable for those who use them to donate their excess Ikea tools.

I would not run a shop as I know how jaded one becomes due to the unending requests for free help.

I used to get most job satisfaction from running council funded bike workshops, especially where the bike owners could not afford their own repairs, and some element of teaching could be included.

. But then, we’re very different to Cycle Surgery

Yep. They’re a hugely succesful, long established, multi million pound turnover business that employs hundreds and gets thousands of people on bikes, and has thousands of loyal, happy customers. I’d imagine you’re not.

One act from one member of staff doesn’t reflect the whole company.

Sorry, still does not compare.

The OP had issues with his drivetrain, not a loose bottle cage.

All he needed and asked for was a 4mm alen key. Not a chain tool. I don’t know why this is so difficult for some people; it’s simple good customer service. What is wrong twith that?

Why do people keep using pointless and irrelevant comparisons/scenarios?

This was the point.

Yep. They’re a hugely succesful, long established, multi million pound turnover business that employs hundreds and gets thousands of people on bikes, and has thousands of loyal, happy customers.

It’s a company that’s gone from a nice, friendly independent local bike shop, to a faceless, soulless corporate ‘money is everything’ chain which employs people on minimum wage with very little benefits (very high churn rate and poor consistency). Even Evans are better in terms of customer service. ‘Happy customers’? i could tell you hundreds of stories where this isn’t the case. Not to mention the number of **** ups ‘proper’ bikes shops have to sort out. Maybe they prefer the Starbucks type business model. It’s not one I wish to support.