Fair enough, it’s not sectarian though, simply a pet name used by everyone! I’ll leave it at that.

An anti-sectarian charity and the courts consider it sectarian so it is a bit more than a pet name.

The original context might not have meant that but then neither was fenian but both terms are now used as the basis of sectarian insults.

Omar Little – Member
Fair enough, it’s not sectarian though, simply a pet name used by everyone! I’ll leave it at that.
An anti-sectarian charity and the courts consider it sectarian so it is a bit more than a pet name.

The original context might not have meant that but then neither was fenian but both terms are now used as the basis of sectarian insults.nil by mouth talk pish, always have.

seosamh77 – Member

nil by mouth talk pish, always have.

I wonder why you feel that way?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-sectarianism/page/4

About halfway down

seosamh77 – Member

nil by mouth talk pish, always have.
I wonder why you feel that way?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-sectarianism/page/4

About halfway downyou not get bored of this? btw, I still don’t deny it, nor feel the shame that you think that I should… now go away.

ps Omar Little, anybody that thinks the term fenian is even remotely offensive to celtic fans clearly hasn’t a clue.

I wonder why you feel that way?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-sectarianism/page/4

About halfway down

Admitting to:

Fighting with cellic fans

Singing ‘ra songs

That’s worth a 😳

So an opportunity for a sensible debate about the issues on a mountain biking forum ends up in sectarian mud slinging.

This would be why I hate Scottish football and the old firm in particular

you not get bored of this?

Nope,never.
Nor do I want/expect you to show shame…. But it gives a very good reason why you might be dismissive of an anti-bigotry charity.

duckman – Member
you not get bored of this?
Nope,never.
Nor do I want/expect you to show shame…. But it gives a very good reason why you might be dismissive of an anti-bigotry charity.

I’m dismissive of all the sectarian nonsense surrounding scottish football.
Scottish footballs problems are the same as Scottish societies problems, ie too much bevvy.. but carry on blame big bad celtic and rangers fans and a few songs, keep the masses happy while ignoring the bigger issues.

If they are going to go down a division or two in Scotland, why not use it as the opportunity to join the English league. They could replace one of the teams about to go bust down here.
In the past when both Glasgow clubs wanted to join the English league they wanted to go straight into the EPL as they would be giving up their Champions League places. Rangers are out of Europe until they sort themselves out so they may as well kill two birds with one stone. Assuming the English Leagues would want them and the vast amount of traveling fans.

seosamh77

I’m dismissive of all the sectarian nonsense surrounding scottish football.

Which is why yo are happy to sing sectarian songs and to deny their sectarian nature.

TandemJeremy – Member
seosamh77
I’m dismissive of all the sectarian nonsense surrounding scottish football.

Which is why yo are happy to sing sectarian songs and to deny their sectarian nature.They aren’t sectarian, I view them as historical and as part of my heritage. It’s that simple, fair enough you don’t understand them, you clearly have a completely different background to me. I’m sorry if you get offended by them, but we/I don’t sing them for your benefit.

Anyhow, this is diverging from the point(laughing at rangers demise ), lets agree to disagree.

Have you ever stopped for a minute and considered how utterly pitiful this whole pathetically mindless sectarian drivel appears to pretty much everyone outside Glasgow?

Maybe you should

Assuming the English Leagues would want them and the vast amount of traveling fans.

See above comment

binners – Member
Have you ever stopped for a minute and considered how utterly pitiful this whole pathetically mindless sectarian drivel appears to pretty much everyone outside Glasgow?

Maybe you shouldI have no interest in how it appears to you.

clearly

I view them as historical and as part of my heritage.

Some Rangers fans view their songs and hatred of catholics as their heritage.

Is it ok for them to sing their songs and dish out abuse at Celtic fans?

They aren’t sectarian, I view them as historical and as part of my heritage. It’s that simple, fair enough you don’t understand them, you clearly have a completely different background to me. I’m sorry if you get offended by them, but we/I don’t sing them for your benefit.

Unfortunately for you they are and the singing of them at a football match is a criminal offence for which people have been successfully prosecuted.

Is it ok for them to sing their songs and dish out abuse at Celtic fans?

Yes.

Unfortunately for you they are and the singing of them at a football match is a criminal offence for which people have been successfully prosecuted.

Can you show me the law where it states Irish songs are illegal? Looking for the specific part here…

Seosamhh77, there was a time when I was quite in to football, and Celtic in particular. Patter like yours is exactly why I could no longer give a toss. What possible positive outcome do you foresee from your line of argument? No one outside Glasgow cares (especially on a cycling forum), and anyone that did care (or was indifferent), now doesn’t as a result of your painful repetition.

Brycey – Member
Seosamhh77, there was a time when I was quite in to football, and Celtic in particular. Patter like yours is exactly why I could no longer give a toss. What possible positive outcome do you foresee from your line of argument? No one outside Glasgow cares (especially on a cycling forum), and anyone that did care (or was indifferent), now doesn’t as a result of your painful repetition.

If you look back, I never brought this up, neither did I want to speak about it.

ps, you’re not missed.

seosamh77 – Member

Unfortunately for you they are and the singing of them at a football match is a criminal offence for which people have been successfully prosecuted.

Can you show me the law where it states Irish songs are illegal? Looking for the specific part here…

The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 will come into force tomorrow (March, 1) to stamp out offensive and religious hatred at football.

The legislation responded to calls from Scotland’s police and prosecutors and gives them additional tools to crack down on sectarian songs and abuse at and around football matches
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2012/02/offensivebehaviour29022012

ps, you’re not missed

😆

THE Lord Advocate has issued fresh guidelines about what songs and chants will be illegal under the Scottish Government’s new anti-sectarian legislation in a move that has angered fans.

The guidance would seem to clarify that fans singing some of the most well-known songs sung on the football terraces will now face arrest. It is understood Mulholland’s guidance outlaws songs like the Billy Boys, The Boys Of The Old Brigade, the so-called Famine Song, and the chant “Ooh Ah, Up The Ra”, which is sung by Celtic supporters.

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/politics/fans-anger-at-anti-sectarian-guidelines-that-will-sterilise-match-culture-1-2194917

TandemJeremy – Member

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2012/02/offensivebehaviour29022012Your point? I’ll looking for the law, not a press release.

You know, I have a Glasgow(ish) Catholic upbringing but no real interest in football, other than an inherent bias towards the green and white half of the city (plus a passing interest in the wee red and yellow part).

I’m proud of both my Scottish and Irish heritage.

I find myself agreeing with seosamh77 here. I don’t see anything particularly sectarian here. As someone with an Irish Catholic background, “fenian” for example is not offensive to me. It’s just that it’s normally followed up with something which is. Same goes for “tim”.

In the same way, friends who support Rangers don’t find “hun” any more offensive than “bluenose” or similar, as far as I know (maybe I’m wrong).

Celtic fans singing Irish songs is neither offensive, nor illegal. Singing IRA songs is both, and rightly so. “The Fields of Athenry” is probably less offensive to a protestant than, for example, “Flower of Scotland” is to an Englishman.

Turning that around, there are Rangers/Ulster songs which are offensive (actually, I’m not that easily offended – let’s just call them distasteful) but if they want to sing Follow, Follow or whatever, then fine.

I don’t know what some folk want? Total silence at games? Complete abandonment of history and tradition? 😐

As I said, I don’t even have any real interest in football, I just find some of the attitudes here a bit weird.

This sort of stupidity perfectly sums up all that is bad about the old firm and a lot of the west of Scotland in general.
We’ve always done so it’s ok.. Laughable.. And utterly pointless trying to engage.
Would post up a link to the official list of banned songs and I’m sure there’d be some old favourites in there seosamh77 but I honestly can’t be bothered trying..
Oh well.

The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012

Along with the Guidance from the lord advocate that clearly shows singing the songs you think are acceptable at a football match is an offence

http://www.copfs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/LA%20GuidelinesOffensiveBehviour.pdf

stevomcd

seosamh77 stated in the previous post that he considered “the boys of the old brigade”acceptable – its clearly an offense to sing this at a match under the laws above.

TJ, I’ve read these things, I’m still looking for the part that says you will be jailed if you sing irish songs. It doesn’t exist.

I think he has a fair point as well Stevomcd; but it’s not one that will ever be considered with his approach IMO.

As I said, I don’t even have any real interest in football, I just find some of the attitudes here a bit weird.

It’s not weird at all, it’s a a convienient cover so they don’t have to deal with the real issues in scottish society, but ho hum..

Brycey – Member
I think he has a fair point as well Stevomcd; but it’s not one that will ever be considered with his approach IMO.

As I said, I’m not particularly wanting to speak about it.. Brick walls and all that.

I’m still looking for the part that says you will be jailed if you sing irish songs. It doesn’t exist.

There isn’t a law that says you’ll be done if you scream obscenities at the police whilst staggering home from a skinful, but you’ll find a public order law will cover it.

Similarly, I dare say there’s no specific law to saw don’t shoot squaddies when they’re picking up a pizza but trust me, it’s illegal

TJ, I’ve read these things, I’m still looking for the part that says you will be jailed if you sing irish songs. It doesn’t exist.

You’re not really talking about Danny Boy or Dirty Old Town though

Sad state of affairs for the humble supporter again , the man that lives and breathes the club, turns up and pays a large chunck of his weekly wage just to be at the game is getting **** buy the moneygrabing coroprate idiots ..

The wider picture of this for all the sneering celtic fans is utimately your club no the whole league is **** .. there is hardly any money in it anymore anyway so who now will want to pay and watch a one horse race.

It is a specific offence to sing sectarian songs at football matches. this includes “the boys of the old brigade” which seosamh77 tinks is acceptable.

TJ – that was in a separate thread though?

I’ll admit, I’ve had to go and google the full lyrics to see, but I actually don’t see anything particularly harmful in that particular song. Borderline maybe, because of the IRA references – but the context is historical, rather than celebrating terrorism.

Can’t quite think of a loyallist equivalent – The Sash maybe?

Probably fair to say that either has little place in football.

Probably fair to say that either has little place in football.

Neither Does god save the Queen or Flower of Scotland then, should we ban those too? one is offensive to the English the other to the Scots.

Honestly that’s how silly this argument is.

Rangers gone? Great news. Celtic next, please!

Isn’t Dirty Old Town about Salford??

It’s not weird at all, it’s a a convienient cover so they don’t have to deal with the real issues in scottish society, but ho hum..

In what way is objecting to you glorifying the IRA at a football match avoiding dealing with the “real” issues in Scottish society? Please enlighten me,as you ARE one of those issues.