[Closed] scottish sectarianism

The ignorance of the irish struggle is astounding at times

What the Irish struggle has to do with a game of football....i don't know?

seosamh77

I suggest you should - your ignorance is breathtaking as is your naivety.

The ignorance of the irish struggle is astounding at times, what religion has to do with the IRA i don't know.

Murder of Protestants for being protestant?

I have no ideqa how to explain it to you as your ignorance, neivity, stupidity are so deep that I would have to start your education all over again 🙄

Murder of Protestants for being protestant?

I have no ideqa how to explain it to you as your ignorance, neivity, stupidity are so deep that I would have to start your education all over again

I've been working abroad for a long while but this thread made me come back to here.

Bigotry is weell and truly alive in Glasgow.

When I moved here in 1996 I just didn't get it.

Going to a new job went like this...

"who are you?"
"I'm me, who are you?"
"What team do you support?"
Me; "Brechin City"
Him; "................ you must be a ****ing Jew then,"
Me; "ooooooooooooooooooooooooookay then"

It's bananas here and very much alive.

Will I stop it? No.
Willl I change anything with my reasoning in arguments that come up? No.
Will it change? I doubt it - it hasn't in the 15 years I've been here...
Is it getting any better or worse? - definitely better but there are many who hang onto their parents/families ways...

what's teh solution? - I don't know?

A lot of 'football fans' blinkered - I can't fix that and I don't know how it will bw 'fizxed'.

In 15 years of living here it is improving but there are small pockets of communities who do keep it going - ever been to 'little ulster'? what a weird and horrible place that is...

Will it ever go away? Probably not but it is getting smaller...

What the Irish struggle has to do with a game of football....i don't know?

So the IRA did not murder protestants for being protestant? Those songs do not celebrate the murder of UK citizens?

Poppies are a symbol of the dead of the first world war - as poppies grew in the churned up ground of the battlefields and are are blood red.

Your ignorance is astounding.

Btw where have i denied anything about IRA songs, I sing them myself and make no apology for it.

You stupid pathetic little man

Not just the first world war, TJ. These days, anyway.

what do poppies have to do with a game of football, or the british army

Outwith the Ugly Sisters they have absolutely nothing to do with football.

and as celtic is a cultural focal point for the glasgow Irish

So a Scotsman who may have Irish heritage is Glasgow Irish? That's a new one on me? Am I Dundee Irish as that's were my surname originated?

It wouldn't have taken genius a to predict that in 1888 at the formation of celtic

What was relevant in 1888 may not be relevant in 2011.

Yossarian, agreed.

Now, let's leave the bottom feeding idiot alone.

poly

I am however rather intrigued by your closing remark. So you recognise there is almost no significant difference between what goes on in Scottish Catholic and Scottish Non-denominational schools from either a religious or a pedagogy perspective - why then do you think it is a good thing to segregate primary school pupils according to beliefs that at the age of 5 they almost certainly can't have properly considered and evaluated on their own?

The West of Scotland isn't belfast, I've been over and seen the peace wall, the falls and the shankill etc, we live in a different society, we aren't segregated communities. there are a few enclaves here and there aye, but it's nothing lik over the water, so i really don't think the segregation aspect holds up, as a child as soon as i left school, I played with every one of my neighbours, the question of religion didn't come up.

Imo in an open society we should surely all be able to respect each others wishes? Sometimes that means parents want to send their children to a religious school, fine by me.

Place is full of Arabs tonight! Wonder what the other 5497 are doing tonight. BTW seosamh77 you are trolling yes? Poor show imo,you could have chosen a better subject.

Place is full of Arabs tonight! Wonder what the other 5497 are doing tonight.

😀

now i don't doubt for a second that these things are available in non dom schools,

However as you are basically a terrorist I don't intend to waste any more of my time debating the issue.

So the IRA did not murder protestants for being protestant? Those songs do not celebrate the murder of UK citizens?

I've never once condoned the murder of anyone.

However as you are basically a terrorist I don't intend to waste any more of my time debating the issue.

So a Scotsman who may have Irish heritage is Glasgow Irish? That's a new one on me? Am I Dundee Irish as that's were my surname originated

If you don't want to define yourself as such, no, be what you like. you know this is half the problem in glasgow, the absolute refusal of scottish society to recognise our Irish heritage. Quite staggering actually as that's where most Irish immigrated to.... It's amazing that you can be Irish american,, New york Irish, Boston Irish, even London Irish but not Glasgow Irish, or Scots Irish.

Football fans in simpleton shocker !!!

This thread has taken a fairly ugly turn guys. I'm not sure who started it but can we just calm down a bit.

Edit...can't be bothered anymore.

Bummer...i didn't notice those options in the Census.

This thread has taken a fairly ugly turn guys. I'm not sure who started it but can we just calm down a bit.

I am a Northern Irish protestant, which should skew my opinion towards some of the above polemics, but singing IRA songs most certainly does not automatically make you a bigot.

There is some nonsense typed on this forum, usually by the same fools.

jezzz,

Brief history lesson as i understand it, Ireland has been under the control of the British crown for centuries, the actions of Oliver Cromwell, through to modern times have led to ill feeling!! The Irish are a Catholic nation, in an effort to enforce control Protestants loyal to the crown were settled.

If you want you can tell the religion and origin of an Irish person from their surname.

However Ireland has always been a poor country and catholics were denied rights, this in part goes back to the Tudors and Bloody Mary etc. and the british mistrust of Catholics, where ever you go you will find the descendants of irish catholic emigrants. They were often employed as navi's and this is where a fair few travellers find their past.

Easter uprising led to the partition in due course, and with it in more time the troubles, i suggest you read and understand the consequences of the british armies response to the uprising. But there has never been a single Catholic or Protestant movement, different groups have always wanted to subvert the cause for their own aims.

If you look you will find that the IRA was in talks with the NAZIs because of their aims. Not because of political ideas, but to get the british out of Ireland. You have the IRA the provo's, the Real IRA, the INLA, look at who Sinn Fein are, and on the Protestant side the DUP, UDF, etc it is all a mess.

And for most through all this they want to live a life, but the Catholics were denied jobs, breeding further resentment, the use of Internment without trial.

Others will know more, and can fill in details, but centuries of distrust, abuse, and suppression take time to undo. The belief that songs and marches are of no consequence fails to understand how deep the hatred run, they are songs that have real meaning, and they should not be forgotten but they should not be regarded as innocent, they are not.

And even today Catholics are barred from the marrying into the british royal family, a dynasty imposed to prevent a catholic sitting on the british throne.

Is singing "Flower of Scotland", which celebrates a Scottish victory on the battlefield against the English and then exhorts the audience to "rise again", also bigoted and the sign of a terrorist?

To be fair our national anthem isnt overly nice to the Scotch...

Is singing "Flower of Scotland", which celebrates a Scottish victory on the battlefield against the English and then exhorts the audience to "rise again", also bigoted and the sign of a terrorist?

not really the sign of a happy united kingdom is it? weapons change, i suppose you could say that Alex Salmond's actions are the rise again, a movement towards a free scotland?

I just realised that the definition of bigotry-

"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices"

is TJ summed up perfectly 😆

It's Scots not Scotch

@waderider lol

anyway, back to my question from this morning. There are racist/sectarian bigots in Scotland but the numbers would never be great enough to lead to a civil war/insurrection in the manner of Irish History breaking out, that about right. So even if Scotland were to get independence and no longer be able to blame the English for there problems they would not turn upon themselves?

mrmo - I hope that enhanced national pride arising from independence might go some way towards solving Scotlands national ills.

It's Scots not Scotch

I know, I'm just being daft.

Just a bit of banter which many of the old firm can't take part in. I'm a Rangers fan, have been for years but theyre not my main team, Im a Black and White Geordie through and through, season ticket holder and I just go upto Ibrox when I can. But the on the whole looking in, the bigotry is disgusting. I've got loads of friends who are Celtic fans and I enjoy the banter of who's on top, but the people you meet that just dismiss you out of hand because you're a Rangers fan is a joke. And I fully assume the same thing happens to Celtic fans too.

i went and watched the Dundee match the other night with my housemate and her friend, who turned out to be a Celtic fan from Dublin. He was rather angry when he found out I was a Rangers fan but we chatted and although he was getting wound up with the score he was never out of order with me. He did mention that he wanted to glass a couple of Rangers fans in the pub, in Newcastle. Bizzare.

Anyway, we left, I shook his hand and said it was nice to meet him, good banter, 3 in a row and all that and we went our seperate ways. He later texts my housemate to say he still likes her but he can not be friends with me because of who I am, what I support and what I've done to his family, race and religion over the past 400+ years. I'm only 25!

What a ignorant bigoted fool. I'm not religious, I've got plenty of Catholics in my family, I'm not from Ireland, and I've never met his family. And I wasn't planning on being best friends with him anyway, he was an aquaintance.

I doubt the bigotry will ever disappear from the old firm, nor will it from NI, but the fact that swaithes of fans flock over the irish sea to bring their problems to Ibrox and Parkhead its not really a surprise. I'm in no way saying this is caused by that fact, just adding to an already existing problem.

And that poppy banner at that game at parkhead in November was an absolute disgrace. I do not believe the club knew nothing about it due to the sheer size of it, coupled with the fact they dont allow the british legion to sell poopies outside the ground.

olympus - i think we can all agree, that guys a cock, and not unique in the celtic support, like I say we have our ills.

This thing is, he wasnt, on the face of it. He was a nice bloke, we had a laugh and seemed to get on, but then this irrational hatred obviously comes to the fore and he just cant get past it. Once I'd left I wasnt a mate's mate anymore, I was a Rangers fan, the enemy or whatever. Completely irrational, and sadly you just can sort stuff like that out.

Yeah, we're all loike dat.

Remember kids, Catholic Schools brainwash you into being an IRA terrorist.

The Daily Mail says so.

I am a Northern Irish protestant, which should skew my opinion towards some of the above polemics, but singing IRA songs most certainly does not automatically make you a bigot.

No it doesn't [i]necessarily[/i] make you a bigot (although in 30 odd years I've found it to be a pretty good indicator) but it does make you an apologist for thugs and terrorists. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the origins of the IRA back in the early part of the 20th Century are (and there are those who know way more than me on that topic) the fact is that is what the IRA became and that is what singing those means today.

gonefishin - what you say makes a lot more sense, and is a defensible position.

Time can whitewash history, and so a song about the Original IRA perhaps carries less baggage than it used to. Each incarnation of the IRA (Official, Provisional, Continuity, Real) probably has less support than the prior, and has been less morally or socially justifiable (read more evil). The songs are about the original IRA and as such the songs are now more like folk music. Just because they are often misappropriated doesn't mean every rendition is by bigots. Not in the dictionary sense anyway. You could argue some folk who sing them have strong political views, but a total inability to see their viewpoint can in turn make you a bigot.

Tolerance is a very difficult thing to cultivate, it seems to me that Scottish Football is so polar and tribal I just wish the old firm would disappear. Glentoran and Linfield aren't much better. But the problem is wider than just football of course, that's just a shop front for it.

Here's what I think right now. Not that it really matters to anyone here...

I've been a Celtic fan since I was a nipper and too young to understand all the ****ing bullshit that surrounds this petty, moronic Old Firm issue. I love watching Celtic play and I can't help getting a visceral thrill when they win, particularly against Rangers.

I know and like lots of people who are Rangers fans. They are intelligent, rational people. Sadly the same can't be said for all their fellow supporters. Nor can it be said for all my fellow supporters. Buried in all this week's media clamour is a story of a Celtic fan jailed for 3 months for racist abuse of El Hadji Diouf. Quite rightly so.

Celtic fans will always take the opportunity to point out the frequent misdemeanours of Rangers fans like the laying-to-waste of Manchester in the 2008 UEFA Cup final. There is the ever-present spectre of sectarian singing; accusations most frequently levelled at Rangers fans for the Billy Boys. However, I cringe just as much when I hear The Boys of The Old Brigade being sung at Celtic away games.

Recent events have just sickened me though. That a group of people are so ****ed up over this that they send bullets and bombs in the post, or turn up to a training ground with a firearm is a very dangerous escalation of a hatred which makes me ashamed to live in Scotland. The "third world" jibes and tags from ill-informed trolls have an unfortunate ring of truth, I'm afraid.

Anyone who insinuates that Neil Lennon "brings it upon himself" by being a bit prickly or confrontational, or by being a Catholic from Lurgan is an apologist for the behaviour of the cretins who are escalating this to a very dangerous level. It's a bit like excusing the behaviour of the moron who abused El Hadji Diouf because he "brings it on himself" by being an aggressive arse. It also has echoes of the "she deserves to be raped, dressing like that" attitude.

Much as I love my football team, I think the best thing for society is for Rangers to beat Killie on Sunday. If it avoids someone being murdered in Glasgow, then it's the best outcome. Sad to say, but I think Celtic need to leave the SPL and be forever separated from their Old Firm twin. Let them both seek their separate fortunes in different leagues and never the twain shall meet.

I think you're right Stuartie.

My sister lives just outside Glasgow and a guy she works with is a Celtic fan, as is his 5 year old son. The little nipper is Celtic mad and while out with his dad one day in Glasgow city centre, they bump into none other than Neil Lennon. This bloke plucks up the courage to stop Lennon and ask if he'd mind getting his photo taken with the little lad. Lennon agrees and squats down next to this little 5 year old now with a massive grin.

While my sisters friend is taking the photo, countless people walk past and say "you f** f*n c***"

I think its very hard for an educated, sane person to grasp this ludacris mentallity. Saying that, Nicky Campbell was on radio five and said "He thought that the Hearts fan would have been a Rangers fan in a Hearts shirt" the media LOVE the sectarianism and inflame it no end.

If I was ultra-rich, I think it'd be quite entertaining to invest £1,000,000,000 in Partick Thistle and turn them into an Old Firm dwarfing peace 'n love juggernaut. Just for a laugh.

BH8; David Murray tried to buy Ayr United before he bought Castle Greyskull and all it's fittings.....He was knocked back by the board! Thank God,I am from Kilmarnock and would never had heard the end of it from the shoe thieves (err Ayr supporting members of my family)

And even today Catholics are barred from the marrying into the british royal family, a dynasty imposed to prevent a catholic sitting on the british throne.

POSTED 8 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST.

I liked this bit the most,but what do I know about history? Only have a post-grad in the subject (Immigrants and Exiles;The Migration of the Gael) Now tell us that the one about how the famine was caused by uncaring British Landlords,and was [b]introduced[/b] to clear the land (I have heard this theory before)

@duckman, so as an historian, you will know well that history is not a fixed science, and as they say is written by the winners. But it can also be written by the losers. Why was William of orange invited to sit on the british throne in place of the rightful James Stuart. I say rightful as by birth he was first in line, William was further down the list.

Truth does not matter to a great extent, it is feeling that matters. Would you say that the british apparently denying aid to the irish during the famine did not cause ill will, the pointlessness of many of the famine roads, the mass emmigration from the west of Ireland, the continued export of grain throughout the famine period, or to look at other time points that the actions of Oliver Cromwell, the easter uprising, etc are all irrelevant? Like the epic of gilgamesh if you look at any story there is often a truth, but over time it is distorted to suit the aims of the teller. For both Ireland and Scotland i guess the need is to find that truth and unwind the propaganda of both sides and move forward.