I really don’t see the problem if it’s for position in a race, it’s just tactics. It’s not like it’s someone stopped for a Mars bar blocking a great bit of downhill trail when you’re out for a fun ride.

molgrips – Member
Yeah I’d have grumbled. When there’s a traffic jam it really isn’t fair to queue jump like that.

so, overtaking someone who’s stupid enough to stay on the main line when there’s more of the course inside of the tape which isn’t blocked is not fair? do you not understand the point of a race?

No need for any communication unless lapping.

It’s all fair in cross racing, in fact it’s all fair in any racing, you don’t have to sprint at the side in a road race, getting a well timed wheel is half of the skill, as is knowing when to attack and when to defend, or when to just sit in waiting.

Isn’t this like many other forms of racing? I mean you’re doing multiple laps, there’s a best line and you go for it first. How you take that line is up to you. If that prevents the slower riders behind you passing then so be it. It’s actually very controlled and it might be a very close friend you’re battling. But and it’s a big but I will never do anything to help others beat me, that would be racing to loose.

Think a lot of this has put me right off trying cross racing.
Getting in the way on purpose should just earn you a

I don’t mean to be rude, but what do you expect a rider in front of you in a race to do?
Obstruction is natural in cross, the whole course is taped off and quite narrow 2M? and the race line within that is narrower still. So tell me, if you’re in front why should you move off that line to let someone behind you past. They had the opportunity to get there first and didn’t/couldn’t take it. Long and short you’re winning the race.

pjt201 – Member
molgrips – Member
Yeah I’d have grumbled. When there’s a traffic jam it
really isn’t fair to queue jump like that.

so, overtaking someone who’s stupid enough to stay on the main line when there’s more of the course inside of the tape which isn’t blocked is not fair? do you not understand the point of a race? I do believe moly is havin’ a laugh here !

oldgit – Member
So tell me, if you’re in front why should you move off that line to let someone behind you past. They had the opportunity to get there first and didn’t/couldn’t take it. Long and short you’re winning the race

I wouldn’t move off my line but I wouldn’t deliberately use more of the track than I would use if somebody wasn’t trying to overtake. That’s dirty

(mind you, I was never quite good enough as a footballer, at least partly ‘cos I didn’t do all the holding and pushing that was “required”)

wouldn’t move off my line but I wouldn’t deliberately use more of the track than I would use if somebody wasn’t trying to overtake. That’s dirty

TBH I’d be more concerned with my forward momentum to even think about blocking on purpose. Come to think of it, I’ve let riders past if I’ve thought they’ve come down on me quickly. Then I sit on their wheel and let them drag me along, until I’m ready to pop out again.
I also find that riders that have struggled to get past often flap and crash once they have overtaken!

I get my crosses mixed up so remind me is this the one where people not quite good enough for downhill all crash into each other or the one where confused roadies run around carrying their bikes across a muddy field 😉

second one. i think this is a good place for this video

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt5h-rnsF6I[/video]

^^^^
Brilliant, well he was definitely a confused roadie!

So is this the sort of incident that features as a major incident in a cross race? Someone shouting ‘Riding’? I don’t really know much about cross, but it seems like a relatively innocuous sort of occurrence. Just imagine if he’d shouted something really mean. 🙂

Chap in that vid would have been fine if he’d realised he wasn’t skilled enough to ride & just carried the bike like oldgit does

a genuinely fast rider would be able to pass without you really knowing.

how ever if you intentionally blocked me more than twice(and i mean i call on your left and you move left) id just ride into you.

His biggest mistake was calling out, only needed if you’re lapping people, in which case they should move out the way to let the leaders through. If you’re just racing for position, you want the good line, get there first. Simple.

I’ve done lots of international cross races and there’s no politeness at all, you leave the door even slightly ajar, never mind open, you’ll have half a dozen foreigners blasting through it. an inch wide hole between your bars and the tape is considered a gap when racing in Belgium!

There’s no harm in communicating, but if he thought he was coming through then, well, enough people have said it.

More importantly that gif of the bloke bunny hopping the steps took on a whole new dimension when I spotted that his entire audience consists of a border collie.

If this bloke shouted ‘Riding’ I’d get out of the way. Just so I could watch him.

Looks like a spaniel to me.

I’ve done lots of xc and 12/24 hour events and don’t think I’ve ever had the rider in front try and slow me up like that
I know its a race but , if you can’t ride get out the way.

Seems I might be missing somthing about how cx is

If this bloke shouted ‘Riding’ I’d get out of the way. Just so I could watch him.

Watch him losing 3-4 bike lengths because he has to scrub off speed to bunnyhop?

It looks impressive, but it’s not the fastest way up.

Seems I might be missing somthing about how cx is

As people keep saying, it’s a race. No one gives away an advantage especially not in a short race, and there is no right of way just because you choose to ride. If you think you should be in front, get in front and don’t ask to be let through.

Cross comes from road racing and the tactics still apply.

It looks impressive, but it’s not the fastest way up.

this is why I’d never make a decent racer, I’d rather be the bunny hopper than the runners 🙂

I’ve done lots of xc and 12/24 hour events and don’t think I’ve ever had the rider in front try and slow me up like that

12/24 hour races are very different as you’re probably not actually racing the person your passing or who’s passing you, so very bad form to hold people up and calling is accepted practice.

Really for shorter xc races? Often had riders in front slow up the race through bits where it’s not really possible to pass, that’s just racing.

It looks impressive, but it’s not the fastest way up.

He’ll have got away quicker than the guys re-mounting, so in reality lost nowt. Chapeau to him… doing it with style.

I read the title as ‘riding has no place in cross’ – which actually seems to have been quite appropriate. 🙂

Another view, just as impressive http://instagram.com/p/gg3BfXKAl2/

The runners are dropped completely even before they remount

He may lose some “distance” in that clip, but not “time”. The gap is just physically smaller as they have slowed, just like corner bunching in motorsport.

orangeboy – Member

I’ve done lots of xc and 12/24 hour events and don’t think I’ve ever had the rider in front try and slow me up like that
I know its a race but , if you can’t ride get out the way.

Seems I might be missing somthing about how cx is

Short races are different from long races.

In an endurance event the gap between places could be minutes. Not blocking makes sense as they will eventually pass on a long wide climb. In CX it is often wheel or bike lengths, the front of the field isn’t spread out as much so if you let someone past you then they will probably beat you. You don’t let gaps open on the basis you’ll close it over the next hour because by then they’ll be taking the course down and it will be over. You follow wheels, use tactics fight up until the finish line.

Shouldering is a tactical decision. If you want to ride it then fine but if you want to win then you do what is fastest over the race. There are times when challenging your riding ability is fun but why pay to enter a race to do that, you might as well just go riding.

I should also mention that a lot of the guys I race with are/have become good friends. However, when we race it is to win. I’m also looking for a podium not 37th which I think makes it a bit more cut throat.

I think he wanted us to move over as if someone riding has right of way over someone running.

Don’t see a problem – not suggesting you jump off the course for him but if there’s room let him passed. Racing tactics are bollocks, the top of climb “stalls” and blocking people. It’s a human powered race the fastest & fittest person should be the winner not the **** who uses all the gamesmanship exploits.

Using all the space inside the tape seems neither exploit nor cheating so that was a weird one theotherjonv

Were are on a small rock spinning in the vast emptiness of space. This is all fairly irrelevant TBH… 😉

Don’t see a problem – not suggesting you jump off the course for him but if there’s room let him passed. Racing tactics are bollocks, the top of climb “stalls” and blocking people. It’s a human powered race the fastest & fittest person should be the winner not the **** who uses all the gamesmanship exploits.

Are you a tester? Maybe mass start racing isn’t for you.

I should also mention that a lot of the guys I race with are/have become good friends. However, when we race it is to win.

Spot on. It’s a race. You have respect for each other but you aren’t afraid to pull a hard move or two in order to finish in front of the other guy.
Bar one very recent experience this has always the way I’ve found racing has panned out.

Are you a tester? Maybe mass start racing isn’t for you.

no, I’ve only done low grade racing before (stuff proper racers probably wouldn’t consider racing) and most people have been pretty chilled out about it, but I know of someone who had the stalling at the top of a hill trick pulled on him several times by the same person in the same race. pretty galling.

Falling for that trick once is acceptable, from the second time onwards he should be expecting it and leave more of a gap so all it does is slow matey-boy down. For every tactic there is a counter-tactic.

no, I’ve only done low grade racing before (stuff proper racers probably wouldn’t consider racing)

like a sportive?

like a sportive?

trick question? Sportive isn’t a race. No like hit the north, brownbacks and keilder100 I was probably being overly cynical but figured some racers may be condescending of these types of races (or atleast the section of the field I’d be in, ie middle of the arse end 🙂 ).

Have to say that as the girls get to race in with the vets whilst Fred and Joe Bloggs are busy living out their ancient rivalry I have to get past both of them to be able to chase down the woman in front which can be a bit frustrating.

Although I am also trying to put Fred and Joe’s shenanigans between me and the girl behind so I guess it can cut both ways.

CX is very often races within a race. The top 10 guys almost always put a lap on me, but I will still be fighting for position against other guys.
At a recent cx race, I was on the last half lap, battling to catch up and had finally overtaken somebody I had been chasing last lap or so. So when a rider behind called to come through, I stayed on my same line. No way was I pulling over to let him pass and risk the rider I had just overtaken to jump I front too.
He bawled a bit, but I was racing too.
If a faster racer wants to pass me, even if he has lapped me, it’s up to him to provide a way through and not expect me give up my race.

Not quite –

11.8 When being lapped, it is the responsibility of the lapped
rider to surrender the racing line.

If you’re being lapped you should make every effort to let the faster riders through, even if it disrupts your race (yes, I have done this myself).

It’s racing. Using ‘tactics’ is part and parcel, but if you’re excessively negative, you’re just masking your own lack of ability. If you’re in a race, you can pick lines around corners which might not be the fastest, but you’ll make it impossible for others to pass. Similarly, if someone picks a ‘racing line’ round a corner, you might squeeze through on the inside and get in front cleanly, even though you hold them up because their line choice was faster overall. You might also end up cornering side-by-side, leaning on each other. That’s fun 😀
What’s not done is to swerve across the track on straight bits to block someone who’s trying to overtake by simply riding faster that you. Speed up, yes, but switch people? Not nice. Likewise, repeatedly ‘stalling’ at the top of a bank? You might get a reputation. Or a smashed rear mech.

LS – Member

Not quite –

11.8 When being lapped, it is the responsibility of the lapped
rider to surrender the racing line.

If you’re being lapped you should make every effort to let the faster riders through, even if it disrupts your race (yes, I have done this myself).

Maybe I will just adopt tactics next time them if thats a more acceptable practice .. 😉

I should also mention that a lot of the guys I race with are/have become good friends. However, when we race it is to win.

same here.

I’m not an overall contender, but I am racing for an overall podium in my age group, currently I’m 3rd so the racing is cut throat. When a new guy comes along and mixes it, it can get very very close with the lead changing constantly. It’s a proper battle, but when it’s over you can guarantee those blokes will seek each other out to shake hands. And not once ever have I seen an improper move.