Not Labour, because Corbyn is great but he still wants a horribly destructive hard Brexit

??? He clearly doesn’t. He would try and stay in single market.

Not Labour, because Corbyn is great but he still wants a horribly destructive hard Brexit.

Have you even read the Labour manifesto? It clearly suggests a soft Brexit approach.

He has dismissed free movement – that means hard Brexit.

I don’t see where people who think the Tory’s have been good with the economy are coming from. Consistently, stated growth targets have been over estimated and then revised. A mantra of “look at the mess we inherited” has been thrown at anyone who has questioned their economic strategy. The sub-prime financial crash we had to deal with doesn’t seem to figure, just the Labour leaving note.
The Tory’s may have brought the deficit down a little but at the same time they have put £700 billion on the national debt whilst public services have been decimated.

Same at home. You get into debt and to pay it off you have to alter your lifestyle with less disposable income. Its simple maths. Labour borrowed us in house with large equity, conservatories, audis on the drive etc, the Conservatives are criticised for the debt reduction plan.

Can Corbyns slightly more believable plan result in a better middle ground? Whomever wins, we are in for a tough time financially.

Will go through the thread and tot up percentages for each party so we can see how that compares to the result. A bit like the EU Ref poll 80/20 Remain vs 52/48 Leave except much more biased away from the likely result

Given the size of STW form user base and it’s likely composition its clear right leaning/voting members don’t feel comfortably in posting here.

In my opinion there is only one party capable of forming a credible government and running the country. Those that follow Lord Sugar on Twitter a long tine Labour supporter know what he thinks (£58m Chapeau and thank you 🙂 )

Cougar – I have not stated any where that I will vote Tory..

My wife has voted labour (for the first time ever)

I am still undecided.

I stand corrected, apologies.

I voted just after 7am. Place was empty.

Still, I am pissing in the wind, but at least I did my duty etc.

I live in a very safe tory seat, can’t vote for them due to brexit bollocks so if I vote it’ll be to help someone save their deposit

A tactical SNP. Voted Green in the past.

Anyone but they Tory bawbags.

Just voted Labour in a hopefully safe Labour seat in Manchester.

Just met up with my brother for a big fry up, and then we are heading for a day of boozing in the finest tradition of election days of old.

I’ve voted, interesting overhearing a couple of the mums chatting “I’ve always voted conservative but…” I wonder how well the polls are accounting for unprecedented times in supposedly safe seats, or whether such sentiment is very localised

Only had the Con, Lab & Lib Dem on our ballot. Voted Vince. Three times.

Given the size of STW form user base and it’s likely composition its clear right leaning/voting members don’t feel comfortably in posting here.

You’re probably right on the last bit (a stopped clock twice a day), but i reckon you don’t understand the leanings of the user base – I expect it is far better educated and far more outward looking than the population

Not one person we know is any better off now than they were 7 years ago,

A quick mental check.

Who’s done well over the last 7 years that I know…

My Wife’s friends, Husband is Tax Partner for one of the biggest Accountancy Firms in the land. They’ve bought a fancy holiday home, moved up from BWMs to Porsches, ‘earned’ another quarter million on their home.

My Parents, made big tasty 6 figures sums since 2010, mostly because they’ve been living in the Middle East since 2005, used their money to buy property here.

Us! I’m earning almost double what I did in 2010, but that’s a bit of a technical victory as I’m making less than I did in 2009 (inflation corrected) and a whole lot less than 2008. My Wife was a nursing student living off her bursary in 2010, now earning a 22k a year to keep dying people comfortable – she does get one of those ‘golden’ NHS pensions, it only costs her 7% of her salary, between flat wages, childcare costs and raising housing costs we have less disposable income now than then.

Most of my friends are pretty much where they were – we’ve spent our 30s treading water, most of us have lost a job, or two since 2010. Thankfully real suffering has been rare, but worry hides around every corner – I don’t know anyone who’s looking for a better job because they want to, if they’re looking it’s because they’ve just lost one or worry they might.

right leaning/voting members don’t feel comfortably in posting here.

Why not? If they can’t stand behind what they believe in and debate it what are they hiding from?

It would be better if more right wingers would join the debate to add to the perspectives and widen the debate.
Although it would probably just provide more evidence of how selfish and uncaring they are – I jest

Tory.

I’ve voted for both parties in the past and was a big fan of New Labour on many issues but Corbyn’s manifesto seems too radical for such a politically and economically dangerous time.

I wish there was a viable third party.

I can’t help but wince at the stupidity of those who will vote simply to oust a Conservative as opposed to objectively think about who they would like to see in charge.

I’m quietly enjoying the irony of anyone mentioning Brexit as a reason to vote Labour as they seem to have forgotten just how anti-EU comrade Corbyn is and how May campaigned to remain. I voted to remain but now that we are leaving, I don’t want Corbyn anywhere near any negotiations.

Hopefully, when Cons. win with a smaller-than=predicted majority, people will be ready to have open dialogue and consider why they won and why we are leaving the EU as opposed to simply dismissing those with different political ideas as ignorant or racist or stupid or nasty or selfish.

Isn’t voting Conservative to try to force a debate about wider, more centrist politics a complete waste of time, given how far right of centre they’ve swung?

I wish there was a viable third party.

I think there is a definite need for this, reading all the comments, i think the Tories have gone too far to the right, with many ex-UKIP etc joining them and that Labour are often seen as the pre-Blair model and too socialist.

What i do hope there will is finding some way to tackle the absolutely terrible media bias and blatant false reporting and lies for both the main parties, it really has hit a ridiculous level.

I think that it is interesting to see how the leaders have changed in peoples eyes between the EU referendum and the GE also, Corbyn was far to quiet during the Brexit vote and i think lost a lot of supporters as he seemed to be seriously lacking whereas May seemed strong, but as the GE has loomed and they have both been given the opportunity of TV airtime, that May hasn’t done herself any favours at all, whereas many have warmed a lot to Corbyn once they’ve heard him speak.

I’ve voted for both parties in the past and was a big fan of New Labour on many issues but Corbyn’s manifesto seems too radical for such a politically and economically dangerous time.

Remind us again how we got to such a dangerous time? Yep those are not the people to trust to get out of it.

people will be ready to have open dialogue and consider why they won and why we are leaving the EU as opposed to simply dismissing those with different political ideas as ignorant or racist or stupid or nasty or selfish.

Dream on…

🙁

I can’t help but wince at the stupidity of those who will vote simply to oust a Conservative as opposed to objectively think about who they would like to see in charge.

I’ve objectively thought about who I would like to see in charge. It’s “not the Tories.” So that’s what I voted for.

I’m quietly enjoying the irony of anyone mentioning Brexit as a reason to vote Labour as they seem to have forgotten just how anti-EU comrade Corbyn is and how May campaigned to remain.

Corbyn may be a Euro-sceptic, but he can’t be any more likely to have us doggedly crashing out of the EU than May is. May’s stance is clear – if it gets to the crunch time and we’ve got absolutely nothing, we’re still leaving – and if they get back in it’ll hand her that on a platter. If Labour / LDs win and they think the same, the mere fact that we’ve objected and it’s changed hands might give them cause to reconsider.

I said right at the start, voting for the party I want to win is a wasted vote, so I’m voting for least worst.

+1 to all of Cougar’s post – was just about to write something very similar. I’m not sure about Corbyn’s personal stance, but at least the motivation of the Labour party re Brexit appears to be reasonable (everything the Tories want to do appears to be driven by the interests of the few, not the many).

See my comment a little further up – it seems it’s not just STWers who don’t want the Tories in charge, and I should also note that I’m not the only ex Tory voter on here who would vote for anybody else but them this time.

Oh yeah, and,

how May campaigned to remain.

In a democracy, the electorate don’t vote on individual policy, we vote for representatives who act on our behalf in the country’s best interests. May clearly thought that staying in the EU was in our best interests. So now, she is wilfully pursuing an end goal that she believes is not in our country’s best interests and will not be swayed from it. And she’s the best choice here? Do me a quaver.

I reckon you’re misunderstanding the Maybot’s motives here – she’ll support whichever side she thinks will advance her own personal cause. I don’t believe she has any particular preference – or if she does it certainly wasn’t influencing her direction then or now.

May clearly thought that staying in the EU was in our best interests.

Dunno about that. Her campaigning for remain was somewhat halfhearted not unlike Corbyn although unlike him she did do a few things which could be seen as deliberate sabotage.
I think the main fact though is Dacre and Murdoch support comes at a cost and her brexit “strategy” will reflect that.

Corbyn was far to quiet during the Brexit vote and i think lost a lot of supporters as he seemed to be seriously lacking whereas May seemed strong, but as the GE has loomed and they have both been given the opportunity of TV airtime, that May hasn’t done herself any favours at all, whereas many have warmed a lot to Corbyn once they’ve heard him speak

was the referendum governed by the same media rules on impartiality?

I find it hard to believe that only in the last 6 weeks corbyn has suddenly found his voice.

More succinctly,

People’s anti-Labour sentiment seems to be largely based around the notion that Corbyn might not be very good. And you know what, they could be right. (They could be wrong too of course.) But you know what? I’ll take “not very good” over “bloody awful” any day.

Over on FB, people are still bashing the LDs for not changing the world when they had a minority stake in the coalition and had to pick their battles. Phrases like “I can never forgive them for… (pick something, University fees.)” Yet few I can see are calling out May for her total and complete U-turn overnight over Europe. Some folk have very selective memories I fear.

Hopefully, when Cons. win with a smaller-than=predicted majority, people will be ready to have open dialogue and consider why they won and why we are leaving the EU as opposed to simply dismissing those with different political ideas as ignorant or racist or stupid or nasty or selfish.

A touching call for unity from the guy who ‘winces at the stupidity’ of people who don’t want a Tory government.

+2 for Cougar’s post.

I’ve already mentioned that I live in a very safe Conservative constituency, but I was the second person in my village to vote this morning. I can safely say that the vote share was at least 1:1 when I left the polling station.

I reckon you’re misunderstanding the Maybot’s motives here – she’ll support whichever side she thinks will advance her own personal cause.

Oh, no, I totally understand that and I agree with you. She’s clearly lying. my point was more about her outward appearance.

now that we are leaving, I don’t want Corbyn anywhere near any negotiations

Why?

Corbyn was far to quiet during the Brexit vote and i think lost a lot of supporters as he seemed to be seriously lacking whereas May seemed strong

Labour voters strongly backed Remain, whereas Tory voters defied May and Cameron. It’s odd that May is described as “strong” in such circumstances.

Given Corbyn or May as PM during the negotiations it has to be Corbyn.
May would be a disaster. She deliberately antagonises people rather than trying to find workable compromises. She u-turns and runs away when things get difficult. It’s hard to think of anyone worse.

I’ve not read every comment but the language used by the people saying they’re voting Tory has confirmed my expectations.

was the referendum governed by the same media rules on impartiality?

I find it hard to believe that only in the last 6 weeks corbyn has suddenly found his voice.

That’s kinda what i’m saying, I am voting Labour but readily admit that Corbyn looked weak through the EU vote, he wasn’t vocal enough. Yet since then and as we have got closer to the GE each time i have heard him speak I have warmed to him, he seems “genuine” which is more than i can say for any other leader, May is our PM yet struggles to anything more than regurgitate the same phrases and i think this has made her look weak in the closing stages.

This is clearly reflected in the polls here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/general-election-polls-latest-tracker-odds/

(especially interesting the very clear divides between the different age groups)

PJM1974

It would be a waste of time but that isn’t what I said. I’m not voting Conservative to force a debate. I agree with them more than I agree with Labour and I hope that an ensuing debate happens as a by-product.

For me, the ideal political situation is a centre-right government with a slim majority with a strong centre-left opposition. We have a too-far right (for me) government and a weak too-far left opposition.

mikewsmith

Mostly because of Brexit. I don’t think it’s fair to put the blame on the Cons for holding a referendum. If we were remaining, I’d have been more likely to give Corbyn a chance. If we were remaining, I suspect that both parties would have had more moderate manifestos and this wouldn’t be a GE for the least shit.

Cougar

so I’m voting for least worst

We all are. It’s a sad situation. As with the elections in the US, there was never going to be a good President, simply a least worst (of course they made the wrong choice).

I may have misunderstood, but surely we are leaving the EU. That much is certain. There’s no opt-back-in clause.

FWIW, it isn’t Corbyn as a person that puts me off the current Labour party but his quite radical go-for-broke manifesto. Having studied economics and politics (admittedly for 2 years, not 3) at Uni, I can’t help but believe in centre-right parties. I was a big fan of a lot of what Blair did for this reason.

Grum

You ignored the key sentiment which was the “anyone but” part of my misquote. Tactical voting and ‘anyone but …’ sentiments do make me wonder about a person’s intentions. I absolutely understand those who don’t want a Tory government but not those who would vote for anyone but. You should vote for what you believe in.

Mostly because of Brexit. I don’t think it’s fair to put the blame on the Cons for holding a referendum.

A shame May has put her cards on the table so quick – it’s a flounce and hard brexit she is aiming good luck when it happens.

I can’t see how any decent person who understands the issues facing the underpriviliged, the disabled, the unemployed could vote Tory. Tories are not helping those who need it.

I’ll be voting SNP

I may have misunderstood, but surely we are leaving the EU. That much is certain. There’s no opt-back-in clause.

With all due respect, I think you have. The guy who wrote Article 50 is on record as saying it was intended to be reversible. Whether parliament will uphold that and whether whoever wins today will actually do so, I can’t say.