https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44933009

So am I reading this right, teachers might get up to 3.5% pay rise but schools get no money to pay for it and the kids education suffers?

Tories really do know how to make the majority suffer dont they…obviously when education continues to go down the pan the majority will blame the teachers for taking all the money!

Standard government policy. Point out to public the massive pensions, plentiful holidays, low working hours and union backed rights held by the lazy public sector THEN start the pay negotiations knowing the general population are pissed off by lazy, corrupt, moaning public servants who just take take take.

One of my teacher fiends is jumping up and down with joy on Facebook beating on about how she’s struggled for a few years only getting 1% payrises and how it’s massively overdue.

She isn’t liking it while all of us in the private sector have been listing our pay rises for the last 5 years to her (most are under 0.5% every year!) and then pointing out that any extra cash she will receive will effectively be taken from her pupils.  Not a bad way for her to start her 6 weeks holiday where she earns extra by doing a bit of marking while sat out in the sun or at a pub.

Not having a downer on teachers but they sometimes need a bit of realism put in their lives.

Most teachers I know can see that workload will increase as teachers will cost more and theres no new funding. The retention problems are caused by work load not pay.

Also the pay award has not been announced yet and it will **** school budgets next year as the school wont have planned it in.

Having said that I’m sure I read recently that private sector pay has on average increased more than the public sector for the last number of years.

Not having a downer on teachers but they sometimes need a bit of realism put in their lives.

Yep if only there was a massive black hole in the budget that could have paid for all of these properly.

If you want realism with teachers you should try looking at how hard recruitment and retention is in many key subjects like maths and science. A 3% pay rise wont help this in the slightest.

Don’t also forget that 3.5% is a headline getter actual rise for majority will be less.

My actual take home is only slightly more per month than 10years ago (due mainly to paying more into pensions for less out at the end) Scotland pay deals are meant to come into effect April. 2017s came in in Feb 2018. As far as I can tell 2018 pay negotiations have pretty much collapsed.

The Tories are also trying to drive a wedge into National Pay Scales…you can have 3.5% but schools get no more money. Like the 2% a couple of years ago that no one got.

Good/bad news before the summer recess?

Obvz, it’ll be forgotten come term time Sept.

Jesus christ how many holidays?!  get out on yer bike teach and stop worrying.

As with most things on planet Tory, there’s no money for certain things, in this instance funding the teachers pay rise, but never any problem when it comes to pouring billions into an ideological money pit

The Great Academy Schools Scandal

Jesus christ how many holidays?!

Gold plated pension!!

Jesus christ how many holidays?!

Divide and conquer….

MPs jeez how many holidays, subsidies and massive pensions

I’ve been in my public sector job now for 9.5 years. The first year I got 2% and I’ve got 1% each year since then. Anyone know how to work out how much less I get paid in real terms since I started?

I can cope with it and I like my job but there have been a lot of good people leave as jobs have been cut and wages frozen. It’s been difficult but the last year or two have been especially challenging.

But im not a “headline grabbing” civil servant so I won’t be getting the 3.5%.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

my wife’s a nurse and was delighted at getting a wee extra 1% in her wages this month.

She isn’t liking it while all of us in the private sector have been listing our pay rises for the last 5 years to her (most are under 0.5% every year!)

Are your friends a bit, well, shit? They seem to be doing a lot worse that the national statistic for employees in the private sector?

Jesus christ how many holidays?!

What most folk are not numerically literate enough to appreciate is that teachers are not paid for their holidays above the statutory minimum annual leave. Teachers in maintained state schools have contracts that state they are paid for a finite number of annual hours at a given hourly rate. The number of hours are worked out on a nominal (laughable) length of day and then multiplied by the number of days in term time in a calendar year. Yes, teachers are paid in 12 equal monthly instalments, but that is for accounting and budgeting simplicity. So, give teachers grief for having long holidays but you need to appreciate they elect to do a job where they get periods of unpaid leave to do with what they like. You could try and negotiate that with your employer too – plenty of people do (annual leave salary sacrifice schemes). You’ll just get paid less for it over the course of a year, just like teachers are.

Bloody public sector workers demanding lower than inflation pay rises! Where to they expect the money to come from!!!!

Oh wait… I remember now, we’re the worlds 5th largest country by GDP.

The only way you can pay more without cutting other things is to tax more.  Ironically many teachers will be in the pay band where if you were to introduce the sort of tax increase that is really needed they would pay more!

I do wonder if the idea of nationally set pay bands for the likes of teachers is logical.  If we accept that the cost of housing is grossly disparate around the country and even other costs of living are variable why would we pay a teacher in Middlesex the same as one in Middlesbrough?   If you apply the same logic to other civil servants could it not provide a financial motivation for establishing their departments in areas with greatest economic deprivation and thus help to balance out the country?

Not having a downer on teachers but they sometimes need a bit of realism put in their lives.

Mine has, after 10 years being “the best teacher I’ve worked with” (her last 2 heads), she’s packing it in to do almost literally anything else. This is due to the constant stress and pressure, no money in schools and people constantly taking the ‘p’ about the holidays she takes. Right now she is unemployed, that’s how bad it is. I worked in what is often seen as a stressful job and let me tell you, it’s a walk in the park compared to teaching.

Forgive me for being precious on this subject.

If we accept that the cost of housing is grossly disparate around the country and then set out to make it worse.

Should we pay a nurse less if they live in Hull for doing the same job? Where do you mark out the North South divide? Do we expect massive shortages on one side of the line and a glut on the other?

The only way you can pay more without cutting other things is to tax more.  Ironically many teachers will be in the pay band where if you were to introduce the sort of tax increase that is really needed they would pay more!

There is a 3rd way and that is to spend the cash now allocated to pay for replacement services that the EU provide, a space port, one sub and a few other things goes on public sector wages and other critical funding. Burn down parliament for the insurance money and a few other things…

“Are your friends a bit, well, shit? They seem to be doing a lot worse that the national statistic for employees in the private sector?”

No, just a combination of some hitting a wage ceiling and others prioritising families and free time over career progression.  I’ve somehow managed to dodge the wage freeze at my work in the 10 years I’ve been there by taking on extra duties and responsibilities but I’ve also cut down my working days form 5 to 4 as I get my weekly 39hrs in easily.  If I worked a 5th day all year I’d earn another £10k but I value the time off more.  My basic hourly wage has still risen less than inflation over those 10 years though.

You’ll just get paid less for it over the course of a year, just like teachers are.

I think the argument works both ways.  Yes the “public” might jealously grumble about teachers holidays, but teachers jealously grumble about those in other jobs who earn more – but work an extra six weeks every year.

No, just a combination of some hitting a wage ceiling and others prioritising families and free time over career progression.

Ah so worth putting that alongside your assessment of private sector pay rises then 😉

Oh wait… I remember now, we’re the worlds 5th largest country by GDP.

The GDP of the country might be nearly £800bn a year….but that is still £18bn short of what we’re spending…and that has come down from about £50bn a year. Glad you said 5th largest economy and  not 5th richest. We’re certainly the 5th largest, but not the 5th richest. We’re way down the list of the worlds richest countries. So there isn’t any ‘spare’ cash kicking about to give anyone generous payrises or budget increases. We’re closer to Tesla than Apple.

We’re way down the list of the worlds richest countries. So there isn’t any ‘spare’ cash kicking about to give anyone generous payrises or budget increases. We’re closer to Tesla than Apple.

Not without some structural changes, perhaps this is the time to recognise that the heard is more important than the individual

Married to a teacher, seriously not a job I would want to do. There’s an awful lot of stress, a lot of ungrateful rude and even threatening parents, hours are pretty bad. Whilst it may be seen as a 6 week holiday to most, I can assure you it isn’t. Unless my wife and her teaching friends are unusual, there won’t be any marking going on in the pub beer garden.

My wife will be working during the summer holidays. Yes, like the vast majority of people she will also be taking time off to have the family holiday. She will be back in work towards the end of August. She did break up on Friday, so will have a good 3 weeks off. Easter holidays, she generally has a lot of work on, while she won’t be in school everyday, she will be working most days including weekends (starts to lead up to exam silly season).

In our house Sundays are a write off, I tend to ride on a Sunday morning so wife entertains our children. She will then work from about 5pm until 11pm. She tends to get to work at 0730 most days, leaves work at 1700, then works from 2000 until 2230 most nights. Report writing time the hours are a lot worse. School trips, additional stress, not a fun break for the teachers.

Next term the number of Teaching Assistants per year group has been reduced. This is additional work load for the teachers. My wife accepts that teaching is a vocation, she is very intelligent, good academic qualifications, could easily be earning a lot more in the private sector for a lot less work. However its her choice to work educating the future. How many more years she will keep putting up with it, not sure. I’d have jacked it in by now.

There’s a lot wrong with the school system and how the pay and work load is divided up. But this isn’t down to the teachers getting a pay rise. Certainly over the last 10 years my wife has been saying how Academy Schools seem to be very top heavy with leadership roles. Usual story of too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

I used to always think teachers had it easy, then I married one and my eyes were opened to the reality.

Rant over…

Arr the good old beat the public sector pay again. Everyone in the private sector likes to bang on about how they have not received any pay increase and the public sector get gold plated pensions blah blah.

I think we need to have a reality check the public sector educate our children, they care for us when we are I’ll, run into burning buildings, run towards terrorist attacks etc if we really were a great country we would pay these people what they are worth.

The private sector likes to bang on about how great it is but they are not able to operate public sector areas with out getting it wrong, G4S Olympics balls up, academy schools, private prison etc all paid for by us from our taxes.

Most in the public sector who look after our elderly, children, help when we are in need etc. on the whole, they do it because they care and want to have a positive impact upon people and their lives. I have never met a teacher, nurse or fireman who has said, ‘yeah I’ve gone it to it because the money is great’.

As an ex-teacher (left due to work life balance), I feel we really let down our public sector workers. They look after us and care for us, surely it is about time we look after them?

My Sis is a headmistress in a local to her Comp. She’s got a PhD in Applied Maths from Cambridge and was courted to enter the City by large Insurance firms looking for Actuarial skillz, but she chose teaching becuse she loves teaching.

You can’t compare a real job with teaching, becuse like most people who go into teaching its more a lifestyle choice than anything else.

Locality of school/home/travel/holidays/working day all factor into the intangible equation, add a salary on top and it all looks pretty sweet career choice… and it is for the vast majority of teachers.

Her school day starts at 0830, finishes at 1415 and most teachers head home within 30secs of that 1415 exit. She’s got dept heads and teachers to manage and the wider PTA/Governors and also the support staff. In effect it’s a fully functioning business model, and should be run like one.

Ive given up on the taking the piss out of her holidays, purely becuse she undertakes teaching Maths to the underprivileged/unruliness of Fenland kids during her “holidays” yes it’s a LEA initiative but under pinned by Cambridge Uni who supply the education facilities and media and curriculum. Ok, so she gets paid for it, she adds 1/3more to her yearly salary for undertaking this work. She has the time, the initiative and undeniable stoicness that if she didn’t do it, no one else would.

I admire her, but she could have retired 10 years ago if she’d gone into the City….

year on year pay cuts with increase pension contributions then a few yrs of below inflation rises I’m so chuffed for be getting another below inflation rise.

I’d also like to personally thank you all for my gold plated pension that I pay £400+ a month for, only 39 bin days to go until I bathe naked in your money.

Thanks again

if we really were a great country we would pay these people what they are worth.

We we are not a great country though.

And what do you think “they” are “worth” ?

2 questions

– they, who?

– they, worth?

You won’t be the first to define the former, but the latter many intellectuals have been engaged in this conundrum over the last 70 years or so… If you have a “worth” figure I’m sure we’d all love to critique it.

Without even reading the details it sounds like the wonderful package the NHS has been offered and accepted with a headline grabbing 3.5% increase.

The reality is that most / the majority will get 1%, pay more in to the pension and pay scales will be ‘simplified’.

So in essence like the NHS ‘deal’ people won’t actually be much better off

Most teachers I know can see that workload will increase as teachers will cost more and theres no new funding. The retention problems are caused by work load not pay.

This.

I know of few jobs as intense as teaching/early years, and then once that 5+ hours a day is done you have a load of usual office/paperwork/planning to do. Most teachers I know spend first week of any holiday just sleeping/recouperating/collapsed in a heap, then last week of summer prepping for term, similar at Easter and Christmas, plus evenings, weekends etc.

Also remember that Scottish teachers already earn a less than Englandshire teachers – only a few hundred at basic level, but thousands and upper payscale and senior level.

Hi Bikebouy,

I can see that the head might not need to be in school until 0830 and can leave at 1430. But for the general teacher a school has to factor in “breakfast clubs” and after school clubs. School gates open at 0815. Classroom’s needed to be prepared. Parents may (quite frequently) request meetings with the teachers both before and after class depending on the parents availability. Be interesting to know in your sisters school, who deals with the clubs, parent meetings, class cleaning and prep etc.

Meetings / Updates from management all tend to be after 4pm. School kids leave at 3:30, gives the teachers 30 mins to clean the classroom or have any after school parent meetings, then attend the meeting.

Not overly sure its a lifestyle choice for the majority. Teachers still have to commute, sort out their own children etc. In fact most of the “older longer serving” teachers have a similar commute to other Private Sector friends. My wife has a weeks residential next term, that’s “optional”, the reality is she will have to do it, our own children will have to be sorted out somehow.

My wife doesn’t in anyway whine or moan about her pay or her conditions. But she does get fed up with the usual comments about “how many holidays”. I’m in the Private Sector, working in the City, I’m well rewarded financially and in terms of managing my time. Absolutely no way would I swap jobs.

The GDP of the country might be nearly £800bn a year….but that is still £18bn short of what we’re spending…and that has come down from about £50bn a year. Glad you said 5th largest economy and  not 5th richest. We’re certainly the 5th largest, but not the 5th richest.

The media and politicians have got this all stitched up…

GDP is a pretty pointless metric with a negative trade deficit. (Which have had since 1989)

The UK’s GDP primarily measures public spending … the more public spending the bigger the GDP.. it doesn’t say where the money comes from… so for the UK this is primarily how much we spend that we can’t as a nation afford to spend.

A lot of people in the UK are going to be very upset as this plays out longer term…

if we really were a great country we would pay these people what they are worth.

Indeed. Free market forces are always the answer. Tax cuts all round!

Don’t go into teaching if you are just going to moan about it all the time :-).

So a 3.5% pay rise for me but no money to implement it so it will just mean more cuts and a harder job which will have only a more negative impact on recruitment!