Project 5 watts per kg.

That’s a climb our club races up though. I always hit max hr on it so I know I’ve flogged myself silly.

Interestingly if you look the previous two efforts had been exactly the same before I’ve had this month of clean eating and training.

One other thing regarding some of this anecdotal evidence I’ve noticed, the difference relative to the others I ride with speaks more volumes so far than anything.

Ftp test it 10 days. Will post up when I’ve done it, I’m really intrigued to see what the numbers are going to say.

…the 3rd quarter of any physical challenge is the toughest…

Personally, I find passing the half way point is a mental boost, and if I’m making my best effort, it’s the final quarter where I’ll be hanging on and really having to concentrate.

Any other tips on ideal pacing for the 20 mins? Gradual build-up?

It’s the same as pacing a 10 mile TT. You need to be warmed up properly beforehand, with some race level efforts. When you start the test, you want to get to your threshold level smoothly, without going into the red, and then maintain that effort to the end. In practice, that will feel like you are riding too easily when you start. I found it very interesting to use a power meter for the first time when doing this sort of effort, and see how easy the initial effort felt, even though I was actually hitting my sustainable threshold. Riding on feel, or with an HRM, I was obviously starting far too hard.

Regarding pacing for FTP tests, the sad and painful fact is that you need to do a lot of them.

Ideally you should be keeping an even pace, but therein lies the catch-22 situation. How do you know how hard to go at the start if you don’t know how you’ll feel at the end? Especially when you first start doing them and are probably seeing gains in both fitness and your ability to read your body. The answer is that you have to keep doing threshold efforts to see how you respond.

Importantly, if your last test was 250W and you set off at 270W next time and blow up – that’s OK! It’s all good data.

If you do a lot of fast tempo rides or races, you may find that the CP model in training peaks or golden cheetah can give you some indication of whether your ftp may have changed. That can give you a pointer as to how hard to set off.

Ultimately, you have to learn how to read your body.

EDIT: When I say you have to do a lot of them. I mean, initially, rather than forever.

I’ve got stava pb’s many % points ahead of my next best time just because it’s a flat out ride till you puke effort, againt a normal “hard” effort.

That’s me trying to get that KOM from you.

I just can’t put that much effort in on a stationary bike or on a flat road sprint. But on an off-road climb I’ll bury myself. Psychological of course.

Regarding FTP tests – there was (maybe still is) a massive TrainerRoad turbo training thread. The TR programmes do FTP tests every 4 – 6 weeks so that the next training block is based on your current value which hopefully has improved due to the training.

It’s also worth keeping a note of what you did in the 48hrs before you do the test so that each test is as close in initial conditions as possible. Testing the day after a long club ride is going to give different results to a test done after two days of rest.

Been intrigued reading this progress.

So much so I had a crack at a FTP 20min test this week.

Bloody knackered but managed to squeak out 3.04W/kg at an average of 268….

That’s at 88kg so I reckon I’ve got some work to do to get near 3.5 or even 4.

Keep working hard guys!

Crumbs, that 4 weeks has gone fast. I have my next one pencilled in tomorrow. Going to start at +7w and see how it feels.

Not at all sure about giving yourself ‘target’ values for an ftp test, its like artificial motivation that maybe helps you draw out a bit more than you would under normal circumstances, so doesn’t end up reflecting a real world ftp at all.

Only timer on display imo, not even speed or cadence when indoor as they can be mentally worked backwards if you ride the trainer a lot.

And OP must have tested too I guess?

I used to think that Fifeandy- although I can’t find the original article that inspired that thinking. But since then I’ve changed my mind.
For setting training zones, it needs to be a physiological maximum. With the 20minute test, I’d argue that you can’t ride harder than your FTP (well 105% obv) because if you can- that’s your new FTP (assuming it’s a steady state effort).

I also think the benefits you get in terms of pacing, more than outweigh any downsides (of having a target in mind).

I now have a very good platform for consistent testing with a very repeatable protocol so I’m pretty happy with the number.
And for Zwift racing categories, (the other reason I want to keep it improving)- my system is likely to give results consistent with those others have generated from the Zwift test which also has your watts on display live.

Well done to everyone making gains!

Bloody knackered but managed to squeak out 3.04W/kg at an average of 268….

Ignoring the rounding error (3.05 vs 3.04 🙂 ) 3.05w/kg is the 20min power, FTP would be approximated as 95% of this value, ie 2.89w/kg

With the 20minute test, I’d argue that you can’t ride harder than your FTP (well 105% obv) because if you can- that’s your new FTP (assuming it’s a steady state effort).

[mathpedant]Not 105%, a fraction more [/mathpedant]*

*hopes there are no silly mistakes after such a b*ll end post 🙂

Haha, nice work Dan.

CJR is a good student but gets distracted easily and must try harder.
C-

If you can’t do, teach 😯 😆

If it were possible to have some sort of negative FTP, then that would be me right now 😐

Humble pie for lunch 😆

Bailed on my test today (definitely not recommended!) as I got half way and blew up.

Could probably come up with a dozen excuses why it went wrong but ultimately my FTP isn’t what I had hoped today that’s for sure 🙂

Still, it was a good training session. Four high cadence intervals during the warm up, the ten minute (Vo2 Max 😉 ) ftp attempt and a frustrated 500w 1min effort to finish out the hour means I got something out of it.

Have been following this thread as I’m working to a goal of 4W/kg. Just wondered if the OP had tested recently? Curious to know what type of gains he’s seeing Vs the training. I’m not really doing specific work, just doing more riding and seeking out big hills (along with a much better diet)

Testing in the middle of next week, although I’ve got 2 big rides planned this coming weekend and an even bigger one planned the following weekend followed by a 180 miler the following weekend and a 100 mile mtb ride planned the one after (mid week I’m doing at least one chaingang ride too)..trying not to overdo it on the turbo and enjoy the summer.

Oh and apologies those of you waiting to see if I’ve gained in power. This first phase has been more about losing weight than upping the power, when I hit 72kg my focus is going to shift (hopefully this will coincide with the winter when I will be on the turbo more than outside).

I’m a steady 80kg at the minute and plan on mixing the diet up with some running as well to help keep it coming down from Monday.

On a rest week this week.

Will be testing middle of next week for definite though.

Ok drumroll…..

Just rolled in from an ftp test as we came home from hols early yesterday due to pants weather….

….

Based on trainer road 90% of two 8 min efforts averages with anaerobic burn outs before hand my current ftp is….

288watts.

Current weight is 80kg.

Previously I was at 273 with a weight of about 85kg. Not bad for 6 weeks progress imho.

Good work OP. Watching this with interest

Good work! a 5kg loss, and a 15watt gain is excellent!

I’d advise getting the EPO out, if you’re still aiming for 5w/kg…

I agree with your earlier comment though – aim high, and you’ll still do better than if you aim low. good luck!

Thanks, plenty more flab to come off yet before hitting the training hard.

Yah admittedly 5 is probably never going to happen, 4.5 may have been a more realistic long term target.

Focusing on getting down to 70-72kg at the minute, that will see me at 4 before the real graft has to happen!

Off to buy some smaller jeans this afternoon

Great work- well done you!

Well done on your progress. i am still following this thread with interest, and seeing what i can achieve myself. If i was your coach though i would be suggesting you focus on speed, and power. endurance next, then weight loss. some weight loss should come along the way as a function of the plan. keep up the good work. i have gone from thinking it impossible , to thinking maybe!

Just had a weigh in, 81.6, lowest for a long while. Strava FTP says 308 but haven’t done a test for months…!
Still, progress, hopefully.

Be careful what you wish for

May 2017 – 345W and 76kg – 4.54w/kg
August 2017 – 325W and 69kg – 4.71w/kg

I’m slower – a lot slower.

adsh interesting that. Is the weight and power loss not related to injury/sickness? Which would probably mean you’re less well trained now than you were back in May. Which, while not impacting FTP that much, probably means your ability to make and recover from repeated efforts is well down. Which probably makes you a lot slower.

That’s interesting adsh. You’re lighter and can produce more power so on the face of it you should be faster?

That being said, you’ve said you’re slower but haven’t said at doing what exactly. Unfortuantely FTP doesn’t gauge fitness which is about repeatable efforts rather than outright power.

Lighter, more power / increased FTP, but less fit? That would equal slower in your average XC race. You’ve lost a lot of weight in a short amount of time. Burned out? Over trained?

How / what events are you using to quantify being a lot slower adsh?

Ill and cutting every scrap of rubbish out of my diet so yes I’m not as ‘fit’ but I can produce the same percentage of my reduced FTP over my intervals.

There maybe a caveat – I’ve not done any hill repeats and my last session at Aston was damp and on HT which seriously impacts climbing grip.

And here we all are hoping that lower Watt/KG will make us faster!

r8jimbob88 – Member
That’s interesting adsh. You’re lighter and can produce more power so on the face of it you should be faster?

Check your maths, he’s lost a lot of weight, and some power.

Which will make you slower on the flat at least. W/kg is really a measure of climbing speed, the assumption being you’d sit in a group on the flat bits and gain more aerodynamically than the heavy/powerfull guys will gain trying to slipstream you up a climb. Then descending is more down to skill than (minor) differences in weight.

And here we all are hoping that lower Watt/KG will make us faster!

🙂

To be faster it really is a case of thinking about the specific demands of the racing you want to be faster at and training that. Weight and 60MP watts (FTP) are usually just pieces of the puzzle.

W/kg is really a measure of climbing speed

@ FTP it’s really only a measure of climbing speed up long steady climbs. For most climbs down South it’s much more about shorter duration power efforts.

That’s interesting adsh. You’re lighter and can produce more power so on the face of it you should be faster?

Actually, he’s lighter and can produce less power.
As has been discussed on several occasions, for most UK riding outright W trumps W/Kg.

Edit: Beaten to it, thats what I get for opening a bunch of threads in new tabs!

I suppose it would have been more accurate to say that increasing W/kg through losing quite a lot of weight and only some power has made me feel proportionately less powerful than a faster climber.

Edit – and this neatly proves the point above^. Where’s the Nutella!

May 2017 – 345W and 76kg – 4.54w/kg
August 2017 – 325W and 69kg – 4.71w/kg

Hutch used to try and race at sub 70 kg, spent a lot of time on diet, but ultimately found that, besides looking and feeling ill, his performance dropped off. His optimal race weight was about 72 kg if I recall. I think “too light” is a real thing. I’m 68 kg, and race weight could be as low as 64, but at that weight I’d be in the same place as adsh. And ill.

And well done OP. Steady gains. Mine is about 4.5 w/kg, and to be honest, I’m pretty happy with that. What I need is 5 min and 1 min improvements. My next race has nothing to do with FTP though 😉 . Keep it up, do some longer rides, enjoy the gains, go racing! 😈

I can echo the above….

I’ve gone from 70kg/ 316w /4.5wkg in week 0 to 68kg/ 339w/ 5wkg (allow me this rounding 😆 ) at the end of week 8.

In week 9-11(current week) I’ve had a constant barrage of colds, sniffles, sore throats etc with recovery taking a lot longer…

I’m going back up to 70!!

That’s a heck of a jump in a short time… this is turning in to the powerPROfiles thread 😉

Probably something more to do with the lead up to the test to be honest.
Week 0 – 14 hours no structure- 316w
Week 4 – 7 hours structured – 332w
Week 8 – 6 hours structured – 339w

That’s a heck of a jump in a short time…

Some of it likely due to getting stronger, but I’d also guess at one of two things…

a) having a very specific wattage target to aim for in a test is resulting in him pushing himself harder

b) he’s got better at doing FTP tests (maybe the 8 weeks have been focused on stuff that would improve testing ability)

I had specific aims for the FTPs, but they were pie in the air – my last test I was aiming to hold 370w for the 20mins – came no where near that. I didn’t get any better, they got harder lol.

Here was my plan the bit on the far right, Codes/hour(s):

My plan was aimed at 1 hour crits.

But I don’t want to pull attention away from the OP, I’ve got my own racing thread for that 😆