Project 5 watts per kg.

What’s IF stand for?

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/normalized-power-intensity-factor-training-stress/

And if you do get your FTP to 5w/kg. Get a TT bike and go and compete at the nationals

You’d need to be very aero with only 350w to play with these days.

How many hours a week can you dedicate to training? Bearing in mind that a sudden increase in volume / intensity isn’t going to end well.

I’m just a snippet over 4.5w/kg weighing 71kg and train ride about 10.5 hours a week. My racing buddy is just a snip under 5 w/kg but trains 16 hours a week. Plus a full time job, things get tricky!

It’s also difficult to shift any fat and get stronger. Do one and then the other.

I currently ride about 8 per week, but not structured. I’m upping it to about 10 for now with some polarized structure. In 8 weeks I’ll up it to about 15-20 per week for 6 weeks as I’m off work. After that it will have to drop to 10 again for a while.

I currently ride about 8 per week, but not structured.
I’ll up it to about 15-20 per week for 6 weeks

Get FTP or die trying.

Based on the above I’m predicting the latter 😉

OP how will your plan work for the whole of the next 12 months? I’m Primarily thinking about winter months…

Right now the next 3-4 months probably make it seem doable, lots of miles through a summer full of eating right and being outside with lots of daylight hours available (He says looking out the window at wind and drizzle) but by the end of october/beginning November people’s motivation often starts starts to waver with shorter days and colder weather.
So what are your plans to maintain progress through the the winter?
Will you be Zwifting the whole winter away or are you planning a more varied winter training program?

For my own part I know I need to mix things up much more than I have before and that means finding a way to keep doing structured activities that aren’t too weather dependant, So by late September the Garage needs to become a bit more of a budget exercise space and I will be running, swimming and possibly doind kettle bells/circuits just to vary things, the MTB will probably not get ridden between Nov-March and it’s going to be Turbo, Road and CX.

Maintaining 8-10 hr/week cycling in the depths of winter could well prove enough of a challenge, 12-16hrs/week will be hard even with a Turbo/rollers, so what value could substituting other activities/sports maybe add? does this fit with the whole “polarized structure” thing too?

Anyone got any suggestions to keep a winter exercise regime interesting and varied?

Anyone got any suggestions to keep a winter exercise regime interesting and varied?

Buy some good quality clothing and lights and go ride outside

ZWIFT!!!!!!! If it doesn’t motivate you- buy a bigger TV 😆

What fifeandy said. Or get a job that lets you go out during the day.

does this fit with the whole “polarized structure” thing too?

No.

ZWIFT!!!!!!! If it doesn’t motivate you- buy a bigger TV

Am going to do a bit more Zwift racing this winter for a bit of variety and motivation. I know someone who does very well on mostly commuting miles and Zwift racing (he’s one of the country’s top testers, I think he might be the worlds no 1 ranked Zwift racer, and is in the 5.5 w/kg region.)

OP how will your plan work for the whole of the next 12 months? I’m Primarily thinking about winter months…

Right now the next 3-4 months probably make it seem doable, lots of miles through a summer full of eating right and being outside with lots of daylight hours available (He says looking out the window at wind and drizzle) but by the end of october/beginning November people’s motivation often starts starts to waver with shorter days and colder weather.
So what are your plans to maintain progress through the the winter?
Will you be Zwifting the whole winter away or are you planning a more varied winter training program?

For my own part I know I need to mix things up much more than I have before and that means finding a way to keep doing structured activities that aren’t too weather dependant, So by late September the Garage needs to become a bit more of a budget exercise space and I will be running, swimming and possibly doind kettle bells/circuits just to vary things, the MTB will probably not get ridden between Nov-March and it’s going to be Turbo, Road and CX.

Maintaining 8-10 hr/week cycling in the depths of winter could well prove enough of a challenge, 12-16hrs/week will be hard even with a Turbo/rollers, so what value could substituting other activities/sports maybe add? does this fit with the whole “polarized structure” thing too?

Anyone got any suggestions to keep a winter exercise regime interesting and varied?

I’m not that far into putting this together yet. Weight off first whilst maintaining power. Then when I am at 70kg I’m going to up the intensity. My focus is diet right this minute as that’s been the piece of the puzzle that REALLY needed to change in order to lose excess flab.

I managed about 10 hours a week through this winter, bit of commuting, couple of night rides and a long weekend one. But totally unstructured.

Come next winter it will have lots more HIIT involved alongside low and slow base miles.

This current phase is all about weight off and maintain my leg mass though.

There’s been some conflicting opinions on here as to whether this is a sensible option, but it’s the one I’m comfortable with and going with.

This current phase is all about weight off and maintain my leg mass though.

There’s been some conflicting opinions on here as to whether this is a sensible option, but it’s the one I’m comfortable with and going with.

Doing it the other way round would probably be the ‘normal’ way to go, although with less obvious short term gains. Think Wiggins, Thomas, Dumoulin, all had the power to begin with and then cut to get the W/Kg.

There’s been some conflicting opinions on here as to whether this is a sensible option, but it’s the one I’m comfortable with and going with.

It’s ambitious 🙂

I think the key is steady progression and think about load / recovery cycles. And plan in terms of a few years work, I’d say from where you are to where you want to get to is at least 3 years increasingly hard work (for weight as well as power) where the gains get smaller and harder to achieve the further you go.

I’d be concerned that if you did the volume you’ve got planned over the next 14 weeks or so, even without trying to combine it with rapid weight loss, you’ll end up mentally burnt out or injured or sick.

I think you’re right. Will be happy with 4.1 w/kg in the next 12 months. Doesn’t change the end goal though

I’m not that far into putting this together yet

You need a progressive plan in place before you start anything. How do you cope with a structured setup? Have you tried it before? Are you happy to eke out 0.5-1% gains per week every week whilst feeling like death or are you the person that likes to see a big step up now and then during a lower-volume week?

Good luck to you, you’ve a long road ahead. Plenty of solid advice on this thread (makes a change tbh!)

I think you’re right. Will be happy with 4.1 w/kg in the next 12 months. Doesn’t change the end goal though

From where you are, I think 4 w/kg with a rough split of 300W / 75kg would a reasonable 12 month target. Think the next 6 months will tell you a lot about how achievable it all is.

Anyone got any suggestions to keep a winter exercise regime interesting and varied?

4.50am alarm – different tune each day
5am – start on turbo or rollers which box set
6.15am – swap to turbo or rollers
7.45am – stretch now or this evening

6.30pm – turbo or rollers which box set
7.45pm – hi dear how was your day trough, trough, trough zzzzzzz

4.50am alarm
5am – oh goody today’s Z3 so music instead of tv etc

Doing it the other way round would probably be the ‘normal’ way to go, although with less obvious short term gains. Think Wiggins, Thomas, Dumoulin, all had the power to begin with and then cut to get the W/Kg.

Plus training with all that extra weight round your belly will help keep the legs big.

chilled76, if you have the time and put the effort in, there is no reason you couldn’t be at or very close too, where you want be by the end of the year.

I went from just winning (a long time ago) the Scottish 3/4 development RR series, to mixing with and beating elites on the road the next season.

I went from around 68/69kg (10% body fat) to 64/65kg @ 5’8″
I was doing around 15-25hrs on the bike with 2-3 gym sessions a week.

One thing I would recommend is, use a heavy mtb (buy a fat bike, thats what I use now) with fat draggy/flat tires for your commute and possibly some training sessions on the road, just that extra bit of resistance really helps build the strength.

Remember, its about quality, not quantity when it comes to workouts.

I was doing around 15-25hrs on the bike

Remember, its about quality, not quantity when it comes to workouts.

😯

25 hours isn’t ‘quantity’ ?

I’ve no clue what you lot are on about but good luck OP 😀

What exactly do you think I’m doing to shift the weight? Eating slim fast shakes and not training?

It sounded like you were “cutting”, and from the few weight lifters i know, it consists of trying to kill yourself through a shitty diet and trying not to black out.

And in agreement with the last few posters, power first, weight later, it’s far far easier that way round. It’s what every pro i know does every year. Ignore weight until a few weeks before the season starts. Then even a minor dip in food will see weight falling off. Though it’s all relative (Usually only talking 4 or 5 kilos), and doesn’t work for everyone.

For a nice solid 5W/kg FTP, no. Just barely enough. 😉

What exactly do you think I’m doing to shift the weight? Eating slim fast shakes and not training?
It sounded like you were “cutting”, and from the few weight lifters i know, it consists of trying to kill yourself through a shitty diet and trying not to black out.
And in agreement with the last few posters, power first, weight later, it’s far far easier that way round. It’s what every pro i know does every year. Ignore weight until a few weeks before the season starts. Then even a minor dip in food will see weight falling off. Though it’s all relative (Usually only talking 4 or 5 kilos), and doesn’t work for everyone.

Hey apologies for the slightly arsey response matey. It’s just I posted the diet changes in my original post.

Not coming at this from a bodybuilding cut stance at all.

I agree power first then cut second… but that also works in cycles. Having ridden quite a lot and fairly hard for the last 12 months with not much weight loss I want to start with a cut for now.

Not coming at this from a bodybuilding cut stance at all.

Probably some confusion because you’re using the term “cutting” that’s usually associated with bodybuilding. I’ve never really heard it apply to cycling. I’ve always thought it to imply fairly unhealthy short term weight loss to prepare for competition.

Even most pro cyclists don’t seem to be ‘cut’ like body builders are.

That’s because they aren’t on drugs.. or at least ones that mimic copious amounts of testosterone.

Single figure body fat % isn’t natural whilst retaining muscle.

Even most pro cyclists don’t seem to be ‘cut’ like body builders are.

How you get there aside, at that extreme I suspect it would be detrimental to performance. All a bodybuilder has to do is hold a pose for a few minutes, not ride a bike hard for a few hours for several days.

Have any of you read graeme obree’s training manual?

It’s really rather good, plus his ways are quite affordable as they don’t rely on expensive gadgets.

No but I’m really interested to read it.

Interestingly when doing zone 2 work I generally don’t use a hr monitor, I just breath through my nose and if I have to start breathing through my mouth I back off.

I’ll have a look at this.

I’ve read a few of Joe Friel’s books but not read any wider than that.

Thanks

I suspect “cut” to a cyclist would mean emptying as much out of the skin bag as possible so you don’t have to lug it about.

Cut for a body builder (not weight lifter, my mistake) is to show off the structure of the muscles. i.e. make the skin, erm, skin tight 😕 😐

And most of the pros will only dip into single figures for big events or at the end of long events, it’s bloody hard to keep up the required food intake for 2 or 3 weeks. And it’s hard/not very pleasant trying to maintain single digits.

It’s certainly not something i’d want to do again, not without a proper diet plan and some slightly more accurate way of measuring what work i’d done and what food i was eating. (no powermeters when i was racing, and very little nutritional help from many teams, just a matter of shoveling as much food down your neck as possible, or not if you thought you weren’t climbing well. 😕 )

Ultimately what will determine if 5 W/kg is attainable is your physiology/genetics. Training will enable you to reach your physiological limit but it can’t change that limit. Your limit may be 280W or 350W or 400W. If you’re reasonably well trained already, i.e. riding regularly, but perhaps not in a structured way, you can expect some fairly modest gains.

Here are some old numbers from Alex Welburn (Torq MTB rider) for context to what you are aiming for:

5 sec 1094 17.2 w/kg
1min 662 10.42 w/kg
5min 430 6.7 w/kg
20min 345 5.4 w/kg
FTP (calculated from 20) 328 5.17w/kg

If you can hit 5w/ks and have skillz then you should try your hand at the Nationals

Here are some old numbers from Alex Welburn (Torq MTB rider) for context to what you are aiming for:

Interesting numbers that show different ways to go about it. That 5.17 w/kg probably would make him pretty decent but not great at a flat time trial, but puts him into the nationals in XC at 63.4kg. If you just want a high w/kg then you can get higher numbers by sacrificing a few kg for a few watts, and that might you quicker or slower, it depends on your chosen discipline (I’ve been 5kg lighter than I am now and, it’d be hideous but I could probably lose that and not lose too many watts, I’d be quicker at XC but it’d probably make me slower at time trials.)

And I expect with the shorter effort max, Alex would have much greater ability than average to put out repeated efforts at a high percentage of his max and be able to recover well still riding near his threshold.

Yes – XC is about repeated 1-2 min efforts in much of the country.

That guy’s 1m power is pretty high.

Following this thread with interest! Good luck OP 🙂

I am too, simply ‘cos it’s simply nice to see someone chasing a goal.

Best of luck to you.

My goal is 4.5.

Here are some old numbers from Alex Welburn (Torq MTB rider) for context to what you are aiming for:

5 sec 1094 17.2 w/kg
1min 662 10.42 w/kg
5min 430 6.7 w/kg
20min 345 5.4 w/kg
FTP (calculated from 20) 328 5.17w/kg

If you can hit 5w/ks and have skillz then you should try your hand at the Nationals

Those are quite old numbers 😉 Just saying and lighter without loosing muscle, my current threshold is around 5.5/5.6 W/kg, I also don’t want to hi-jack the thread with the physiology of XC. If anyone has questions just send us over a tweet etc
@Alex_Welburn

Burn…!