Probably a naive question about heroin and Afghanistan.

I’m going to have to admit I haven’t really looked in to this, so there’s probably some glaringly obvious reason why my idea won’t work, but…

Out of date figures on Wikipedia show that 87% of the worlds heroin comes from Afghanistan.
Up until recently, we, that is the UK and US government, had several thousand troops out there. I think there’s still some there now.
So, why not just fly over the poppy fields and spray them with Agent Orange ?
Failing that, send a bloke with a tractor and mower, plus an armed guard, out in to the countryside to cut it all down.

Where’s the flaw in my plan ?

While they’re at it, why not invade, er, I mean “send a peacekeeping force” to Mexico to do the same thing ?

They have tried encouraging the farmers with incentives to grow other crops but it’s not worked that well by the sounds of it.

If they just decimated everything and the farmers livelihood, even more would swap to supporting the Taliban, who would allow them to grow what they want. So it’d be counter productive.

So, why not just fly over the poppy fields and spray them with Agent Orange?

Because when all the next generation of children are born with three heads, the locals tend to get a bit upperty. And they’re a touchy bunch at the best of times.

You may not have noticed, but 10 years of occupation, thousands of pointless deaths, and billions upon billions of pounds spaffed down the drain have achieved absolutely sod all! The Afghans will go on doing what the hell they like, irrespective of us. And flooding western countries with smack is a very profitable wheeze

While they’re at it, why not invade, er, I mean “send a peacekeeping force” to Mexico to do the same thing ?

Because then you really would have a war on your hands. The country is full of coked up psychopaths who are tooled up to the teeth!

Much better to legalise it and let them get on with it.

While I am not defending any export/import of illegal goods, a large part of the Mexican economy depends upon the trade of narcotics. The paradox is that whilst there has recently been a huge amount of violence associated with the trade, there are many farmers/middlemen who make some money by growing crops they shouldn’t be involved with. I am sure the same is true of part of the Afghan economy.

Unfortunately I think we in the west have a huge amount of responsibility on our shoulders – by purchasing illegal goods, we create the demand for them.

No easy answers and I think the ‘Drugs War’ that has been, and is being fought, can never be won. Interesting experiment in Colorado at the moment, with their recent change of state laws.

If they just decimated everything and the farmers livelihood, even more would swap to supporting the Taliban, who would allow them to grow what they want

Actually the Taliban were reported as banning the growth of poppies. It became more prevalent again after they were ousted. Just one more part of the big mess.

They only grow it because there’s a market for it and it’s more profitable than any other crop. Those that advocate leagilisation are just adding to the misery.

Where’s the flaw in my plan ?

too many people with their finger in the pie.

Pawsy_Bear – Member
They only grow it because there’s a market for it and it’s more profitable than any other crop.

Those that advocate leagilisation are just adding to the misery.

[/quote]Why, the markets exist and have stood the test of time. So they aren’t going anywhere, what’s the point in allowing black markets to flourish?

I remember hearing a suggestion a few years ago that the big drug manufacturers should hook up with the growers in Afghanistan and use their output as the basis for high quality pain relief drugs.

Should be cheaper and a lot more pure than the synthesized stuff.

The Pinkster – Member
I remember hearing a suggestion a few years ago that the big drug manufacturers should hook up with the growers in Afghanistan and use their output as the basis for high quality pain relief drugs.

Should be cheaper and a lot more pure than the synthesized stuff.

there is a healthy legal poppy growing industry elsewhere in the world, the US is a fairly big grower too I think.

Where’s the flaw in my plan ?
too many people Goverments with their finger in the pie.

FIFY

So, why not just fly over the poppy fields and spray them with Agent Orange ?

Are you a troll or just stupid?

Last time the Yanks used Agent Orange it resulted in this…

even without the contaminants it’s ridiculously toxic.

bikebouy – Member
Where’s the flaw in my plan ?
too many people Goverments with their finger in the pie.
FIFY

yip.

There isn’t the infrastructure in Afghanistan to grow other crops and make as much money out of them. They can grow the poppies, produce the paste locally and then send it off to market with a man on a motorbike.

Other crops would need storage barns, processing plants, roads etc.

Cheapest option for the western world would probably be to buy up all the Afghan herion and burn it all (in incinerators, not on silver foil!).

Failing that, send a bloke with a tractor and mower, plus an armed guard, out in to the countryside to cut it all down.

Because that worked so well in Colombia.

I reckon most farmers would probably want to grow food for their families, but having Taliban and Us lot fighting in your field probably doesn’t help.

If I was a farmer I’d grow whatever I could that I could sell. Why would I care where it was going or ending up, I mean here are your soldiers **** up my country so have some heroin back in return, one good deed deserves another, isn’t that right?

Actually the Taliban were reported as banning the growth of poppies. It became more prevalent again after they were ousted. Just one more part of the big mess.

On the eve of the attack on Afghanistan Tony Blair stood in front of Number 10 giving an impromptu press conference in which he gave a list of reasons why Afghanistan was about to be attacked, among them was the claim that ‘95% of the world’s heroin came from Afghanistan’.

This was technically true (although the figure was probably nearer 75%) but what Blair failed to mention was that the heroin crop in Afghanistan was only being grown in a tiny enclave controlled by the Western backed Northern Alliance, and that heroin production had been eradicated in Taliban controlled Afghanistan, something which had been verified by the UN.

It was at that point that I realised just how deeply dishonesty is ingrained into Tony Blair’s character.

We used to sell it to the Chinese back in the days when we ran the sub continent. Did rather well out of it too…if I recall correctly we managed to acquire Hong Kong as a result.

Now we’ve given back hongkong and we’ve ignored a superb opportunity to once again become a NarcoState.

Political correctness gone mad…the Victorians would never have stood for it.

On the eve of the attack on Afghanistan Tony Blair stood in front of Number 10 giving an impromptu press conference in which he gave a list of reasons why Afghanistan was about to be attacked, among them was the claim that ‘95% of the world’s heroin came from Afghanistan’.

I seem to recall another one of the reasons he gave was to liberate women and champion their rights. Thats gone pretty well too.

I reckon most farmers would probably want to grow food for their families, but having Taliban and Us lot fighting in your field probably doesn’t help.

No, they’d rather make enough cash to buy food and have plenty left over for luxury goods.

Binners so far so good!

We so messed up that country, and then we have the nerve to have a go at Russia about Crimea! At least they didn’t blow the place to bits!

What luxury goods Molly?

No, they’d rather make enough cash to buy food and have plenty left over for luxury goods.

I’m not sure what you class as “luxury goods” but Afghan farmers tend not to have “plenty left over”, whatever they grow. There are few countries in the world poorer than Afghanistan.

While they’re at it, why not invade, er, I mean “send a peacekeeping force” to Mexico to do the same thing ?

The money, demand and guns are coming from the north.

So, why not just fly over the poppy fields and spray them with [something not as toxic as] Agent Orange ?

Because that worked so well in Colombia.

Afghan is 652,225 km². Poppies will grow pretty much anywhere. Spraying toxic shit over crops destroys the land long term, would be a massive recruitment boost for the resistance, and would just shift the problem to new areas of the country.

To quote the self-appointed Global Commission on Drug Policy:
The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world. Fifty years after the initiation of the UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, and >30 years after President Nixon launched the US government’s war on drugs, fundamental reforms in national and global drug control policies are urgently needed”

In 50 years we’ve proved that it’s impossible to control the supply side (the mess that’s been made of South and Central America) and impossible to control the supply side (drug use in consuming countries has risen).

Surely it’s time to try something different? Educate, regulate, tax and legalise.

Those that advocate leagilisation are just adding to the misery

fairtrade recreational drugs only duuuuude.

But yeah, legalising drugs will probably do the current farmers out of a job (as bigger more organised businesses start legit farming), or Boots will be screwing them over on prices ala supermarkets and dairy farmers. I’d guess there’s scope for improving their lot by removing them from drug gang’s operations tho.

seosamh77

Why, the markets exist and have stood the test of time. So they aren’t going anywhere, what’s the point in allowing black markets to flourish?

Because its there country not ours. Maybe you should go there and try to impose your view? You might be in for a shock of what is acceptable and even possible in Afghanistan. Its not like the UK. The Afghan government isn’t popular when it wipes out the peoples only income so it treads lightly.

Instead of advocating action to deal with the market and the criminal suppliers you want to impose suffering and misery on the poor people of Afghanistan who are the least able to make a living? Smacks of double standards based on liberal western attitudes. Remember drugs fuel many other criminal activities.

most of the morphine that the NHS prescribes comes from Turkey – if we bought it from Afghan and flew it in direct we would be on a complete win, we could even write off the cost of a few years of turkish production to allow the farmers to switch crops rather than creating a new black market supply

afghanis struggle to create any kind of crop trade, we should at least give them a break and buy the stuff they can give

At least they didn’t blow the place to bits!

The Russians happily blew Chechnya to bits and then blew it up a bit more.

The sensible thing to do rather than attempting to destroy production would be to remove the market for the product. Unfortunately heroin is apparently quite moreish.

you want to impose suffering and misery on the poor people of Afghanistan who are the least able to make a living?…Remember drugs fuel many other criminal activities.

It’s earning a living at the expense of enriching the narco-political gangster elite that perpetuate the suffering and misery in which you live. Quite a dilemma for the Afghan farmer.

The Russians happily blew Chechnya to bits and then blew it up a bit more.

The difference between Chechnya and Crimea is that the Russian government faced strong opposition in Chechnya, are you suggesting that “we” faced strong opposition in Afghanistan ? That doesn’t quite fit into Tony Blair’s narrative.

To add: If there wasn’t a need, farmers wouldn’t grow it.

I can’t honestly, sitting here in the UK, advocate erradication of the crops they grow. I’m not living thier lives nor feeding thier children. If I was in the same situation I would probably do the same. After all if I want a fridge, I’d like to buy a fridge with cash from crops I’d grown too.
Luxury goods, TBF most of the Afghans live a hand to mouth existance as is and it’s not changed since we went in there nor come out.

As said it’s Governments that are corrupt and in collusion, farmers need to eat and will produce anything to feed thier families.

SOme good points well made on here for a change.

Pawsy_Bear – Member
seosamh77

Why, the markets exist and have stood the test of time. So they aren’t going anywhere, what’s the point in allowing black markets to flourish?
Because its there country not ours. Maybe you should go there and try to impose your view? You might be in for a shock of what is acceptable and even possible in Afghanistan. Its not like the UK. The Afghan government isn’t popular when it wipes out the peoples only income so it treads lightly.

Instead of advocating action to deal with the market and the criminal suppliers you want to impose suffering and misery on the poor people of Afghanistan who are the least able to make a living? Smacks of double standards based on liberal western attitudes. Remember drugs fuel many other criminal activities.Eh? I’m all for legalisation. I don’t want to impose anything on afghanistan(let them organise their own society how they please).

I’m saying the black markets exist, and aren’t going anywhere under current efforts to abolish them, all that’s happened is that they have got more sophisticated and more profitable.

They should be legalised and regulated. Cutting out the funding for other illegal activities you mention overnight.

We grow fields of opium poppies in the UK by a government backed scheme. We should buy it off the people of Afghanistan instead.

Apologies for the daily fail link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1028504/The-opium-fields-England–heroin-producing-poppies-grown-make-NHS-pain-relief-drugs.html